Stannis wrote the Pink Letter. (Updated)

[three-eyed monkey]

Quote (ADwD):

...

Mance Rayder's thick grey-brown hair blew about his face as he walked. He pushed it from his face with bound hands, smiling. But when he saw the cage his courage failed him. The queen's men had made it from the trees of the haunted forest, from saplings and supple branches, pine boughs sticky with sap, and the bone white fingers of the weirwoods. They'd bent them and twisted them around and through each other to weave a wooden lattice, then hung it high above a deep pit filled with logs, leaves, and kindling.

The wildling king recoiled from the sight. "No," he cried, "mercy.This is not right, I'm not the king, they-"

Ser Godry gave a pull on the rope. The King-Beyond-the-Wall had no choice but to stumble after him, the rope choking off his words. ...

The first thing to notice is Rattleshirt's use of "they-". Mel was not alone in making the switch. "They-" might refer to Mel and Mance or it might refer to more than that.

Ser Godry Farring, called Giantslayer, is sworn to Stannis. He pulls the rope just in time to cut Rattleshirt off about the switch. Coincidence? I'm not convinced it is.

[WidowMaker55]

Since the letter was sealed, there must be a seal. And I don`t see how would that be done with letter Asha received. So, either Stannis won the battle and had access to Bolton`s seal and wax, or this theory is flawed.

Maybe karstarks maester that Stannis caught could have

[bemused]

Yes. that maester was a Dreadfort maester on "loan" to Karstark. I think he might have a scrap of pink wax in a pocket somewhere.;)

[Inquisitor Glokta]

Maybe karstarks maester that Stannis caught could have

The maester Stannis caught is from the Dreadfort, the Bolton seat. He would have pink wax him, without a doubt.

[profilebegone]

he could'nt even say, he loved his brother in the first letter, that the maester writes for him in ACOK, because it wasn't true. how would he have managed to write a whole letter full of lies?

This is a really, really good point.

[Frey family reunion]

he could'nt even say, he loved his brother in the first letter, that the maester writes for him in ACOK, because it wasn't true. how would he have managed to write a whole letter full of lies?

And how much help did that letter garner him? Oh yes, none at all. While cheating on his wife so Melisandre could send a shadow assassin out to kill his brother gave him an army. I think there can be an argument that Stannis is getting more Machiavellian as the story progresses.

[three-eyed monkey]

This is a really, really good point.

It is a good point but at the parley with Renly outside Storm's End, Stannis told Renly he'd give him until dawn the next day to swear loyalty and then had him killed that night. So it seems he does lie. As shown by the post above about Ser Godry's role in the roasting of Rattleshirt, Stannis may well have lied about burning Mance. I think Stannis character is not as black and white as people think, just like all GRRM's best characters.

[Joe Pine]

It is a good point but at the parley with Renly outside Storm's End, Stannis told Renly he'd give him until dawn the next day to swear loyalty and then had him killed that night. So it seems he does lie. As shown by the post above about Ser Godry's role in the roasting of Rattleshirt, Stannis may well have lied about burning Mance. I think Stannis character is not as black and white as people think, just like all GRRM's best characters.

Hi. I'm new so go easy on me.

Would it follow that Stannis created the 'Pink Letter' to absolutely ensure Jon would die at the hands of the NW brothers?

[three-eyed monkey]

Hi. I'm new so go easy on me.

Would it follow that Stannis created the 'Pink Letter' to absolutely ensure Jon would die at the hands of the NW brothers?

First and foremost, welcome to the forum.

I don't believe Stannis wants Jon dead, I think he wants him to come to Winterfell because Stannis believes the Northmen within its walls will turn on the Boltons and rally to the only remaining (in Stannis' eyes at least) son of Eddard Stark. I think the purpose of the letter, regardless of who sent it, was to get Jon to march on Winterfell and I doubt any of the potential authors, with the possible exception of Mel, could have foreseen the stabbing.

[mrlukeduke]

I cannot believe some people are still arguing that Stannis couldn't have sent the letter because of his values/dignity/honour. Baloney! He's one of the most devious, backstabbing scoundrels there is. All his letters are completely different in their intentions. But all are equally as tactical.

I agree with tem, it was designed to provoke the combined forces at Castle Black to march on Winterfell. The Wildlings are many and capable. Stannis needs a fresh army.

[Stag Country]

The part that convinces me of this is the discussion with Massey about him hearing of Stannis' death. I think he going to attempt some sort of feign to get into Winterfell by pretending to be dead and having Bolton let his guard down. We've already seen that Stannis is willing to use pretty extreme measures to win tough fights.

[Stag Country]

he could'nt even say, he loved his brother in the first letter, that the maester writes for him in ACOK, because it wasn't true. how would he have managed to write a whole letter full of lies?

Just a guess, but it's been my interpretation of Stannis that he has been evolving since his defeat and disillusion on the Blackwater and his subsequent experiences with Davos in Dragonstone. Even before that when he accepted Renly's "turncoat" bannermen whom he felt should have previously owed him allegiance. It seems to me that he is gradually figuring out what it will take for him to win this war........I only hope he figures it out before Martin decides he needs to throw another shock at us.

[Rooseman]

The part that convinces me of this is the discussion with Massey about him hearing of Stannis' death. I think he going to attempt some sort of feign to get into Winterfell by pretending to be dead and having Bolton let his guard down. We've already seen that Stannis is willing to use pretty extreme measures to win tough fights.

Yeah, I'm also convinced that Stannis faked a letter with his death and sent it to Winterfell. However, that doesn't prove that he also sent the Pink Letter to the Wall.

I think it's more likely, that a Northmen/Mance-alliance sent it after hearing about Stannis' "death," now wanting Jon to send swords down to Winterfell (which is what he would have done, hadn't he been stabbed) to replace Stannis as their main anti-Bolton/Frey puzzlepiece. If Stannis needed the additional manpower to storm Winterfell, then why didn't he take more men with him? Did he plan to roose Jon into marching south when he left? The Northmen however think that they desperately need the men from the Wall, since their whole plan relied on playing Stannis and the Boltons out against each other. So they have to change their plans. Their motivation is bigger than Stannis'.

[three-eyed monkey]

Yeah, I'm also convinced that Stannis faked a letter with his death and sent it to Winterfell. However, that doesn't prove that he also sent the Pink Letter to the Wall.

I think it's more likely, that a Northmen/Mance-alliance sent it after hearing about Stannis' "death," now wanting Jon to send swords down to Winterfell (which is what he would have done, hadn't he been stabbed) to replace Stannis as their main anti-Bolton/Frey puzzlepiece. If Stannis needed the additional manpower to storm Winterfell, then why didn't he take more men with him? Did he plan to roose Jon into marching south when he left? The Northmen however think that they desperately need the men from the Wall, since their whole plan relied on playing Stannis and the Boltons out against each other. So they have to change their plans. Their motivation is bigger than Stannis'.

I agree fully that Stannis will send false information to Winterfell by way of the Karstark ravens. This would indeed open up the very viable option that the pink letter was sent from Winterfell by GNC/Mance collaboration, but I suppose my argument is based on Stannis wanting Jon to rally the Northmen against the Boltons. Theon informs Stannis that the different factions in Winterfell are at each others throats, and imo Stannis plans on making Jon the wedge he drives into this crack, but he doesn't know about the GNC.

I don't believe Stannis planned the ploy before he left. My speculation on this is that Stannis did read the letter Ramsay sent to Deepwood Motte, probably gleaned it for whatever information he could about the Bolton's movements, but the thing that struck him most was how Ramsay signed it Lord of Winterfell, the very title he had offered Jon on more than one occasion only to be rebuffed. This must have made Stannis think about how Jon would react to seeing it in writing, a point further emphasised by the author of the pink letter when signing Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell. Imo, this is where the seed of the plan was sown.

As to why Stannis didn't bring more men if he needed more manpower, I think Stannis brought about all he could. He initially wanted to put the 300 wildlings that were at the Wall in his van when planning to attack the Dreadfort, but Jon talked him out of that plan, suggested Deepwood Motte instead, and in the process swapped him the 300 wildlings for a way to enlist ~3000 northern clansmen. Stannis probably doesn't know how the wildling numbers have swelled thanks to Val since he left the Wall, but number of swords aside, it is Jon that Stannis really needs. That's not to say he wouldn't welcome 300 wall-climbing wildlings too.

[mrlukeduke]

Exactly, well summarised tem.

I'd not considered that the addition of the word "Trueborn" to "Ramsay's" signature fits Stannis' intentions towards Jon perfectly. Nice spot. It's like Stannis rubbing it in that Jon refused his offer of pardon to become a legal Stark. And of course, Ramsay really has been pardoned by the crown (via Tommen).

[Inquisitor Glokta]

Too much awesomeness.

Really good find!

I also think, that Stannis just wanted Jon to come WF, since he didn't know about the new Wildlings. He needs the son of the holy Eddard to provoke further tensions in WF.

I mean between the Freys and Manderlys at each others throats and the Umbers and Karstarks out side of WF, the best thing for Stannis would be if Jon showed up. He knows the glue that held this house of cards together was fArya, with her gone from WF the tensions will only grow and if the northern lords were to see, that he has the support of Ned Starks last remaining son (at least in his eyes), they would rally to his side.

[three-eyed monkey]

Thank you Mrlukeduke and Nyos.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

And people always seem to forget maester Tybald, who is currently in Stannis' care. Surely the maester of the Dreadfort would gladly provide the rightful king with pink wax.

http://awoiaf.wester...ndex.php/Tybald

So much in the Theon sample hints toward Stannis being the author of the letter, or at least responsible for its contents.

edit: I just flew over it again and found and odd passage:

"Just now, the turncloak is more use to me alive. He has knowledge we may need. Bring in this maester." The king plucked a parchment off the table and squinted over it. A letter, Theon knew. Its broken seal was black wax, hard and shiny. I know what that says, he thought, giggling.

What letter is that and how does Theon it's content. Could it be the first of the letter to the wall, that didn't make it? Could Theon have helped Stannis with the pink letter?

[redriver]

And people always seem to forget maester Tybald, who is currently in Stannis' care. Surely the maester of the Dreadfort would gladly provide the rightful king with pink wax.

http://awoiaf.wester...ndex.php/Tybald

So much in the Theon sample hints toward Stannis being the author of the letter, or at least responsible for its contents.

edit: I just flew over it again and found and odd passage:

"Just now, the turncloak is more use to me alive. He has knowledge we may need. Bring in this maester." The king plucked a parchment off the table and squinted over it. A letter, Theon knew. Its broken seal was black wax, hard and shiny. I know what that says, he thought, giggling.

What letter is that and how does Theon it's content. Could it be the first of the letter to the wall, that didn't make it? Could Theon have helped Stannis with the pink letter?

That's the letter Jon sent with Tycho warning of the Karstark betrayal.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

That's the letter Jon sent with Tycho warning of the Karstark betrayal.

Ah thx I had forgotten the letter.