Becoming No One: Rereading Arya IV

[1234567]

For the umpteenth time: the point about bringing the gift to the masters has nothing to do with the doom: it means merely that as the original FM brought the gift to a slave, so later did he kill one or more masters. That a small band of assassins had the means to cause a cataclysm on the scale of the doom of Valyria is a piece of stupidity beyond the merely absurd. How anyone in this forum could persuade themselves to the contrary is to me a mystery that defies explanation.

Oh dear, my mistake then. I'll happy'll admit I haven't read any threads that previously discussed the doom and the FM's having or not having a role in it.

I don't have any food insights at the moment. Every time I pondered the food I just got a wicked craving for seafood accompanied by fond memories of eating here.

That place looks amazing!

I was struck by the Sansa/Alayne parallels to Arya becoming No One in her heart.

Also Arya thinking she is Ned and Cat's daughter, is also similar to Sansa thinking a similar thought about whose daughter she is too.

So apparently LF's Braavosi ship is named for a sailor's god of death.

Nice catch. LF really is a dead man walking....or sailing in this case.

There has been a good deal of speculation over when Arya will reach the point of no return with the Faceless Men. The Kindly Man says:

It sounds like this cold cup is the final stage. She may be committed prior to this but this is the closest to an answer that I think we have.

I agree the cold cup is the final stage, but I do wonder how many FM secrets (the face being placed over hers etc, you can learn before they are not going to let you go without a price. Also the Coin, makes me think of the Greyjoys and paying the Iron Price.

In this I think the KM is sincere. The difference between giving the gift of life and the gift of death seems like something central to this faith. His concerns about Arya choosing as a child echo Ned's concern (and Benjen's) about Jon choosing the NW while still so young. If he is being truthful about not thinking Arya can make the sacrifices needed that raises the question of why he let's her stay and continue to progress in her training.

I almost saw this as more of a test: I do wonder about FM recruitment though. It almost seems like an organisation you can't join if you wnat to join, if you take my meaning. they are not interested in people who enjoy killing, or who are seeking personal revenge. Yet you have members like the Waif, whose story we hear in future chapters. she too appears to originally have been potentially a less than willing recruit.

I agree there is a parallel to the Benjen/Jon conversation, however of the 3 Acolytes Arya sees, two appear to be Sansa's age so may have joined when they were not much older than she is.

He does tell her that it's not a home for Orphans, and yet I can't see many joining who come from happy circumstances.

He says the iron coin paid for her passage but I doubt that's all it means. There has to be an explicit endorsement that accompanies the coin beyond an invitation to a job fair. Is it the coin that lets her continue? Is the free choice involved in the future sacrifices she must make so important that they'll abide by any free choice until a potential fails or chooses otherwise? Jumping ahead for a moment I imagine many would never pass the blindness test or successfully pull of their first hit so there's inherent filters along the way.

Agreed. The tests are hard. The Sailor's on the ship know that an FM can't kill someone they know, so it maybe that the FM traing and what it entails is more widely known about in Braavos and hasn't come up anywhere yet. Again it begs the question of when you can truly leave the FM without a price. There could be an oath to secrecy, with dire consequences for spilling secrets, or they could use potions to remove your memories / speech or sight in order to ensure your silence.

On previous reads I got much more of the manipulative sense Rapsie refers to with his offering Arya choices she doesn't really want. But Arya doesn't ask for anything either. She could have asked for passage to the Wall to go to Jon or asked to be an apprentice to someone like Syrio. So I'm less sure about the degree of the manipulative element this reread.

They have been observing her closely, so perhaps they have phrased the offer in a way to see if she will ask for them to send her away; if she has the desire to leave ,if she is presented with the opportunity, but given her dear of being sent away and the Kindly Man's ability to read faces (as we saw when she thought the pork was human flesh) I wonder to what extent the Kindly Man knows she is afraid of being sent away, so presents options that will induce her to stay. Had he suggested being apprenticed to someone like Syrio, or being sent to Jon, I think she would have been more likely to leave them or at least consider her options.

[1234567]

Double post.

[fantasmas]

One of my favorite chapters :)

No whisper was too faint to be heard in the House of Black and White. “Child,” said the kindly man one day, “what are those names you whisper of a night?”

The fact that the KM knows of her whispers seems like more than pure coincidence. There must be magic at work. Perhaps her death prayers can be heard within the house even if they’re just whispers. The Many-Faced God is there to listen, after all.

Arya soon confesses to him that she is ‘maybe’ there to learn their arts and kill those she hates, but he tells her that is not an option. Only servants to the Many-Faced God may stay at the House of Black and White.

Of course, there are other servants to the house such as the Waif, some acolytes, and Umma the cook. These servants seem to remind Arya of people she knew in the past like the little girl Weasel, her father, and even Sansa.

The acolytes wore black and white too, but their robes had no cowls, and were black on the left side and white on the right. With the kindly man and the waif, it was the opposite. Arya was given servant’s garb: a tunic of undyed wool, baggy breeches, linen smallclothes, cloth slippers for her feet.

The garb of this guild interests me. The Black and White symbols seem to represent some life and death, light and darkness. It also seems to suit Arya’s very black and white views of the world and her sense of justice. I also can’t help but be reminded of the Hel myth with this underworld and “her appearance is described as half black and half flesh-coloured and further as having a gloomy, downcast appearance.” Our young Arya has generally been described as gloomy looking. Now that I’ve done a little reaching, I’ll move on :)

While the servants are in their garb, Arya has been put into some plainer, but seemingly comfortable clothes.

Only the kindly man knew the Common Tongue. “Who are you?” he would ask her every day.

“No one,” she would answer, she who had been Arya of House Stark, Arya Underfoot, Arya Horseface. She had been Arry and Weasel too, and Squab and Salty, Nan the cupbearer, a grey mouse, a sheep, the ghost of Harrenhal… but not for true, not in her heart of hearts. In there she was Arya of Winterfell, the daughter of Lord Eddard Stark and Lady Catelyn, who had once had brothers named Robb and Bran and Rickon, a sister named Sansa, a direwolf called Nymeria, a half brother named Jon Snow. In there she was someone… but that was not the answer that he wanted.

The question of ‘who are you?’ starts to come up. An important for Arya’s arc. Who is Arya Stark? Is that just a name? Is her identity only something that can exist within her memories and loved ones? She knows that all the names she’s had were false and that Arya is her true name, but she also knows that is not what the KM wants to hear.

The language barrier provides some obstacles for Arya with the prayers, so Arya gives her own prayer to the God of Many Faces, including Queen Cersei.

Worshipers come in and out of the temple. Some come to pray, see the priests, drink from the black cup, etc.

Thirty different gods stood along the walls, surrounded by their little lights. The Weeping Woman was the favorite of old women, Arya saw; rich men preferred the Lion of Night, poor men the Hooded Wayfarer. Soldiers lit candles to Bakkalon, the Pale Child, sailors to the Moon-Pale Maiden and the Merling King. The Stranger had his shrine as well, though hardly anyone ever came to him. Most of the time only a single candle stood flickering at his feet.

Some peculiar gods. The Weeping Woman makes me think of Stoneheart, and the Lion of Night preferred by rich men makes me think of Lannisters. I believe the ship LF and Sansa sailed off on was called the Merling King, but that could be wrong.

The priests and acolytes had their sleeping cells on the first level, Arya and the servants on the second. The lowest level was forbidden to all save the priests. That was where the holy sanctum lay.

This talk of lower levels within the temple gives the HoBaW even more allusions to being an underworld with its lower levels and subsections.

Arya was free to wander as she would amongst the vaults and storerooms, so long as she did not leave the temple, nor descend to the third cellar. She found a room full of weapons and armor: ornate helms and curious old breastplates, longswords, daggers, and dirks, crossbows and tall spears with leaf-shaped heads. Another vault was crammed with clothing, thick furs and splendid silks in half a hundred colors, next to piles of foul-smelling rags and threadbare roughspuns. There must be treasure chambers too, Arya decided. She pictured stacks of golden plates, bags of silver coins, sapphires blue as the sea, ropes of fat green pearls.

Arya goes exploring once she’s allowed to (I’m reminded of Arya Underfoot going through the Red Keep) and finds various pieces of clothing, accessories, and armor. She suspects there may even be treasure chambers filled with jewels. I imagine these are left by those who die in the temple, and are later used for Faceless jobs, but I don’t recall. Either way, Arya’s found some buried treasure until she is interrupted by the KM, and she lies to him once again.

Weese would have beaten her bloody if he had caught her in a lie, but it was different in the House of Black and White. When she was helping in the kitchen, Umma would sometimes smack her with her spoon if she got in the way, but no one else ever raised a hand to her. They only raise their hands to kill, she thought.

Arya begins to compare those in the HoBaW to her experiences of Harrenhal. No one is hitting her here, and she even gets on well with Umma the cook. A far cry from her interactions with Amabel.

“Stop” is the first Braavosi word that Arya learns as she starts to learn some of the language.

The brackish waters that surrounded Braavos teemed with fish and shellfish of every sort, the kindly man explained. A slow brown river entered the lagoon from the south, wandering through a wide expanse of reeds, tidal pools, and mudflats. Clams and cockles abounded hereabouts; mussels and muskfish, frogs and turtles, mud crabs and leopard crabs and climber crabs, red eels, black eels, striped eels, lampreys, and oysters; all made frequent appearances on the carved wooden table where the servants of the Many-Faced God took their meals.

Lots of seafood. The water and sea imagery is strong in Braavos and in the HoBaW. A good deal of the fish and life that fills Braavos waters seems to end up in the HoBaW.

Arya later asks the KM why the worshipers at the HoBaW were not afraid of death, unlike in Westeros, and he talks more about the Many-Faced God and an angel of death. Death is not the worst thing according to the KM. He then asks Arya to smell the candles and she lies about all the scents that remind her of home. Magic is at work.\

“Just so.”

Those words made her sad. Syrio used to say that too, Arya remembered. He said it all the time. Syrio Forel had taught her needlework and died for her.

…………………………………

Silent as a shadow, she would tell herself, remembering Syrio

Some memories of Syrio and Syrioisms. He’s still definitely a figure of reverence for Arya.

Once, as she was eating her supper, a terrible suspicion seized hold of her, and she put down her knife and stared suspiciously at a slice of pale white meat. The kindly man saw the horror on her face. “It is pork, child,” he told her, “only pork.”

A reasonable fear here, I think. The first thing that I thought of when rereading this scene is how suspect this dinner is, and how Bran ate a suspicious pork in ADWD, but ofc he didn’t seem to think much of it…

Arya’s living quarters remind her somewhat of Harrenhal, but these quarters are far more comfortable. She keeps her ‘treasures’ here like “the silver fork and floppy hat and fingerless gloves given her by the sailors on the Titan’s Daughter, her dagger, boots, and belt, her small store of coins, the clothes she had been wearing…And Needle.”

Eventually Arya is caught practicing with Needle. The Waif informs the KM who demands she rids of her treasures if she wants to stay in the HoBaW. She is then offered to be sent off to work in a merchant’s house, to be trained as a courtesan, to someone’s wife, or be sent back to Westeros. Arya wants a none of these offers. If Arya fears being a mouse in Harrenhal again, then living a common life would not suit her, and how many 11-year-old girls who are eager for marriage or to train as sex workers? Some, but clearly not Arya Stark at this point.

“It may be that the Many-Faced God has led you here to be His instrument, but when I look at you I see a child… and worse, a girl child. Many have served Him of Many Faces through the centuries, but only a few of His servants have been women. Women bring life into the world. We bring the gift of death. No one can do both.”

A conflict is presented here. The KM does not understand why Arya is there, but the Many-Faced God has sent Arya there for a reason. Arya is a child and a girl. Women bring life, not end it. Perhaps that will be an issue for Arya—to choose between life and death, growth or discarding her identity and gender altogether, things Arya has fought to keep despite all the situations where she’s had to hide them.

Subsequently, Arya decides to do as she is bid and throws her treasures away, with the exception of Needle because of the sentimental value and the fact that Needle represents Arya Stark. She seems to believe some form of divine intervention from her father’s gods led the sword back to her. So she hides it.

The gods wanted me to have it. Not the Seven, nor Him of Many Faces, but her father’s gods, the old gods of the north. The Many-Faced God can have the rest, she thought, but he can’t have this

………………………………………………………………………….

One day she might have need of it. “One day,” she whispered to herself.

I imagine the FM knew that she hid the sword. Perhaps that will be a test later on as she moves onto her next steps in her acolyte training. Will she take Needle? This scene does remind of the Ishtar myth that was presented in an earlier reread thread since Arya, too, must strip of her possessions, even clothing, to stay within this underworld.

The KM later tells her of how their order came to be.

Arya’s response to his story-- “Arya drew back from him. “He killed the slave?” That did not sound right. “He should have killed the masters!” Her ideas of justice and how it should be dispersed are clear here. Weak vs. Strong and Good vs. Evil. A very childlike point of view. She has a similar reaction later on when she’s told of how they killed the Ugly Little Girl.

Arya is later told she will learn to tell lies apart under the instruction of the Waif. She starts to learn more broken Braavosi and recalls her bad stitches under Septa Mordane’s instructions. Arya later discovers through her lessons that the Waif is a grown woman despite her young appearance. Poisons have made the Waif so, a thought that frightens Arya, but she is told that the same fate will not come to her.

As I reread, I was caught by the parallels I could see in Bran’s chapters post-ASoS. We have the older male mentor who is magical, mysterious, seemingly all-knowing, and more than a little creepy. The Waif’s old age in contrast to her childish appearance, in addition to her talent with tongues, is similar to Leaf, the CotF that Bran meets in BR’s treehouse.

Standing there with the flagon in her hands, she dreamed she was a wolf, running free through a moonlit forest with a great pack howling at her heels.

The wolf dreams continues even as she serves. Arya’s subconscious lingers back to the wolves, to Westeros.

Arya later asks about Jaqen H’ghar, but the KM does not know that man. She is then told to change her face through mummery, and she follows the advice by practicing with a Myrish mirror.

She remembered a tale she had heard from Old Nan, about how sometimes during a long winter men who’d lived beyond their years would announce that they were going hunting. And their daughters would weep and their sons would turn their faces to the fire, she could hear Old Nan saying, but no one would stop them, or ask what game they meant to hunt, with the snows so deep and the cold wind howling.

Arya remembers this tale from Old Nan as she helps the acolytes deal with the dead bodies.

Jon laters tells Alys of such stories.

“My father’s grandmother was a Flint of the mountains, on his mother’s side,” Jon told her. “The First Flints, they call themselves. They say the other Flints are the blood of younger sons, who had to leave the mountains to find food and land and wives. It has always been a harsh life up there. When the snows fall and food grows scarce, their young must travel to the winter town or take service at one castle or the other. The old men gather up what strength remains in them and announce that they are going hunting. Some are found come spring. More are never seen again.”

Not sure what this mean, but the parallels, right? :P

The moon turned and turned again, though Arya never saw it.

More moon imagery follows as Arya continues to serve. As she improves, the KM tells her she must improve her Braavosi. Thus, she sent out to live in Braavos and sell cockles, clams, and mussels.

Arya chooses to name her new identity after her mother, and the KM helps give her a fake story of how she came to Braavos since Arya is so clearly Westerosi.

A long iron knife rode on her right hip, hidden by her cloak, a patched and faded thing of the sort an orphan might wear. Her shoes pinched her toes and her tunic was so threadbare that the wind cut right through it.

…..

Men gave her curious looks as she went past, and beggar children called out words she could not understand.

Arya leaves the temple that night, armed with an iron knife under a cloak. Her shoes don’t fit any longer and men give her curious looks. There are more than a few mentions of footwear in Arya’s POVs before, be it the cloth slippers she wears in the temple, the boots that she won’t steal from the dead man because they’re too large for her in ASoS, Cat of the Canals’ too-large boots, or the boots she steals off of Dareon’s corpse. In this particular scene the shoes are too small for her feet. Arya’s maturing physically, and is about to become more worldly as she enters the world of Braavos outside of the temple’s walls.

“Dunsen, Raff the Sweetling, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei.” Rain began to fall. Arya turned her face up to let the raindrops wash her cheeks, so happy she could dance. “Valar morghulis,” she said, “valar morghulis, valar morghulis.”

More water imagery. I feel like it was constantly raining in the Riverlands, and now she’s come to a place prone to such weather. Strangely, the list becomes less of a prayer and more of a chant. An odd moment of happiness and celebration for Arya, morbid as it is.

[Lummel]

...I've always gotten a sense that there was a connection between the North and Braavos on some level. There are a number of references to bronze and iron mostly, but not exclusively, around the Titan's bronze armor and the Faceless Men's iron coin. Bronze and iron seem to be a First Men associated thing especially reinforced by Jojen and Meera's vow...

I can go along with their that. There's a directness, simplicity - better maybe to say a lack of pretence about bronze and iron, they are what they are. I get the same feel of both the North and Braavos. Braavos has no pretensions to fancy ancestors - it is simply money power. The north again seems similarly unpretentious (although obviously much poorer in various ways than Braavos).

[Odon]

I was wondering why the FM are grooming Arya for their ranks if she's not interested in following their "It's Nothing Personal" philosophy of death-dealing. But then I thought: well what type of person would they be looking for in an assassin?

1) Someone isolated from society - both its values and connections (family or otherwise) that they could turn to instead of the FM. The Kindly Man speaks the language of the Seven Kingdoms and clearly knows that House Stark is a proud and noble family. Anyone paying attention to events across the Narrow Sea would know about the (apparent) total destruction of that House in the war.

2) Someone who has undergone enough trauma that murder is no longer an abhorrent act, yet are not so psychologically damaged that they've turned into murderous thugs like Rorge or the Mountain who rape and kill anyone who annoys them. On the surface Arya's 'death list' makes her unsuitable for the FM, but in fact it shows her willingness to discriminate in her targets - she doesn't just say, "I'm going to kill every Lannister and Frey I can get my hands on" she says, "I intend to kill these specific people". And some of those people are notorious killers (Ser Ilyn) or well guarded (Queen Cersei); Arya's willingness to come all the way across the Narrow Sea to learn the skills to kill them shows her determination to carry out this task.

3) Prior recommendation. Arya has the iron coin - ostensibly her ticket across the Narrow Sea but actually a message from Jaqen H'ghar to his fellow Faceless Men. Take a look at this one, she has the potential to be one of us. Jaqen H'ghar would have noted Arya's bravery (facing down Rorge, and later saving them from the fire despite the urge to save herself first), prior training, plus the discipline to keep up with it despite the lack of a teacher (her waterdancing practice in the godswood), determination and discrimination (the death list), ruthlessness (agreeing to the 'three wishes' deal), and most importantly her cunning (forcing Jaqen to free the prisoners by naming him as her third wish).

4) Last but not least, Arya is nobleborn which means she's already had some education. Illyrio Mopatis talks of the difficulty of finding children who know their letters for Varys network of spy/assassins. It's easier to build on an education than to teach languages and skills from scratch, yet that kind of privileged upbringing doesn't normally bring with it the trauma needed for a determined killer. And while some nobleborn become soldiers, by the time they undergo these traumatic experiences they're likely too old, having already been shaped by the military. Arya is still young, and therefore more open to influence (or brainwashing if you like - we are talking about a cult, after all).

"You believe this is the only place for you." It was as if he'd heard her thoughts. "You are wrong in that. You would find softer service in the household of some merchant. Or would you sooner be a courtesan, and have songs sung of your beauty? Speak the word, and we will send you to the Black Pearl or the Daughter of the Dusk. You will sleep on rose petals and wear silken skirts that rustle when you walk, and great lords will beggar themselves for your maiden's blood. Or if it is marriage and children you desire, tell me, and we shall find a husband for you. Some honest apprentice boy, a rich old man, a seafarer, whatever you desire."

A sign of the pervasive influence of the FM in Braavos, if they can arrange for Arya to have a life not only at any level of society she chooses, but also as an apprentice to a world-famous courtesan - another indication that Arya is far better looking than she thinks she is.

[Lummel]

For the umpteenth time: the point about bringing the gift to the masters has nothing to do with the doom: it means merely that as the original FM brought the gift to a slave, so later did he kill one or more masters. That a small band of assassins had the means to cause a cataclysm on the scale of the doom of Valyria is a piece of stupidity beyond the merely absurd. How anyone in this forum could persuade themselves to the contrary is to me a mystery that defies explanation.

Ah, clearly you have been but a little time on the board!

Over the years one can observe stupidity beyond the merely absurd to the point that it is no longer mysterious, not something that defies explanation but a simple fact of human nature and our interaction in groups. After a while Foucault's Pendulum starts to seem if not quite non-fiction then not entirely fictional either in its depiction of the human brain's ability to yoke any two ideas together.

I mean compared with Syrio lives! Causing the Doom seems vaguely plausible ;) .

Seriously there is no way of knowing from the books. We are told that the Doom occurred and now we learn that the faceless men existed or were in the process of coming into existence beforehand. I don't see anything that suggests that GRRM is nudging us into thinking that there is a causal link between those two book facts. For me the idea that the faceless men have such a power certainly feels wrong in the context of the story. They are introduced to us as amoral assassins who use some magic, not magicians who assassinate people as a revenue producing side-line.

...So apparently LF's Braavosi ship is named for a sailor's god of death...

Hmm. Davos I ASOS, he is stranded on one of the "spears of the merling king", sailors "knew that for every one that broke the surface, a dozen lurked treacherously just below it. Any captain with sense kept his course well away from them".

No surprise that Braavosi sailors offer up a candle to be spared from being stabbed by one of those spears while at sea. Lord Baelish seems fond of hidden daggers too.

[The Sleeper]

It might be a good idea to allow some more time between chapters from now on Besides being quite long they are very dense as well.

So ... Where to begin?

The house of Black and White

It was introduced to us in the first chapter as a dark and creepy place. The ambience, however, is not made to creep people out. I think it is meant to convey somberness, intimacy and privacy, which I believe is needed when someone contemplates death. I also get the impression that people did not attend solely to commit suicide, but also light candles to the various incarnations of death not ot take them and also to mourn, as the lit candles in front of the statues would suggest. Old women would grieve and sailors and warriors would pray for safety in their dangerous endeavors. The various statues appear to have cultural significance as they represent the deities from the many peoples the Braavosi originate from, as well as aspects of death. Not all of them would be exclusively death gods outside the HoB&W. The Weeping Woman would represent grief, the horse transcendence or transition and is probably Dothraki in origin. The Lion in the Night could be refference to the Lannisters as well as the fact that it is preffered by rich men. The impression it makes on me, however, is that it represents power or judgement as it is entroned. The Hooded Wayfarer would represent the random, or fateful nature of death. Not sure what to make of pale child with the sword. Violence perhaps. The black goat invokes terror, with its pagan associations and the fact that it was used as a sigil by a less than savory though amuthing character in the series.

Two of the most prominent religions in Asoiaf are conspicuous in their absence. There are obviously no fires blazing in the place, but there is no depiction of any flaming hearts either. At the same time J'qen Hghar appeared to revere R'hllor as much as any other deity and the Kindly Old Man's affirmation that the Many-Faced God is every god would include him as well. On the other hand it is hard to imagine that the Red priests would consider death worship as anything but heresy and a shrine to R'hlor in the HoB&W as anything less than sacriledge. It might prove to be of some significance.

The other glaring absence is that of the Old Gods. Likewise with the fire, the HoB&W is hardly a suitable place for a tree. I can't help but think of the weirwood door that appear to be watching like the tree in Winterfel and to open and close of their own accord, as well as the fact that the Old Gods have countless faces as well and are heavily involved with death. There is also the candles that have a similar effect as the weirwood paste (and shade of the evening). Perhaps the true test for an FM is to smell these candles and smell nothing (or at least be able to lie convincingly about it).

The temple itself is built much like a crypt, it's passages and many levels hinting of mysteries and having a lagre part of it underground. Jumping the gun a bit, the fact that it appears to go down and down reminds me of both the crypts of Winterfel and the cave of the children of the forest.

The Kindly Man and the Waif.

The way they are intorduced is something out of horror movie. The waif is a very striking creepy child figure appearing out of nowhere, hollowed eyed and generally haggard. The kindly old man shows no face initially at all. He offers assurances. It would be hard to think of the Waif as a threat. Yet their bearing and demeanor are extremely threatening. They sneak up on Arya and her claimed personnas don't fool them for a second. We see that the Waif is not what she appears to be. The Kindly Old Man goes one level further and is only what he appears to be. The true Faceless Man showing faces that presumbly only exist to serve a function. The first face he shows is that of death, the next of the kindliest old man Arya has ever saw. It makes me wonder if everone sees the same face when they look at him. I also found of note the reaction they had to the coin. Both refused to touch it and their lack of immediate response might be construed as surprise.

The relationship they form with Arya is that of mentors. The Kindly Old Man offers indoctrination and theory and choses the direction Arya's training is meant to follow, while actual training and education falls into the Waif's hands. There are a few things we can glean from what the KOM intimates to Arya. For one thing, seeing death as a mercy is perfectly understandable for a cult that sprang out from what can be described as a good approximation of hell. Arya having gone through hell herself can understand that. Another thing I found noteworthy was equating suffering and sin as both conditions that become unbearable and that death liberates as from. We see him describe his calling as one of utter devotion and one that few are meant ot walk on. We see him call the world the vale of tears. We also hear that judgement is for the Many-Faced or as christians would have it, vengeance is his.

The Waif is someone we see Arya become more familiar with, or at least the fact that they spent a lot of time together and laugh at eachother, gave me that impression.

There has been a lot of discussion whether Arya is being brainwashed. I think not. Arya has plenty of reasons of her own to stay and pursue her FM training. The question is whether there is such intent on behalf of the KOM (because if a death cult doesn't brainwash, who does). There is certainly manipulation involved, but the same could be told of any kind of education and particularly the part about motivating somone to go through with it. It depends on whether we believe him or not. On one hand there is nothing about the KOM that is real. On the other, one could argue that the only thing that is relevant and real is the appearance. When he speaks of the sacrifices Arya has to make to go through with her training, I tend ot believe him. It is obvious it is a very hard life. Him and the Waif live their lives in anonymity and very hard discipline. It is apparent that they have gone through the same very hard training. Whether his offer to place Arya as a servant or a courtesan, or find her a husband was genuine, we will never know as Arya did not take him up on it. The clout they appear to have in Braavos suggests that it was in his capacity to do so, though that doesn't mean that he would. Note that these are all gender specific vocations. The offer to put her on a ship that stopped at Gulltown whould have landed Arya in a war free territory where her aunt was the ruler. Arya has rejected these options long before she came to the HoB&W. The most relevant part, I think, is that he was testing her commitment. He offered her comfort, luxury, security, domestic contentment, potential wealth, prestige, adoration. He wanted to see what Arya is made off, what she really wanted. He knew why she had come to them, but he had to know if she would stay and not jump ship when a better opportunity came along.

In general, his style doesn't appear to be overbearing or pedantic. He challenges her, invites her to think for herself, explains why she needs to do the thing she needs to do, is civilised and gives her a choice every step of the way. He appear to be genuinely educating Arya to become a member of his order, a vocation he seems to believe to be worthy. With the reservation of further revelations of this deliciously mysterious figure and his order, I'm not inclined to see this as brainwashing.

[brashcandy]

It might be a good idea to allow some more time between chapters from now on Besides being quite long they are very dense as well.

Indeed. With that in mind, discussion of the first chapter can continue in conjunction with Arya II.

[Lummel]

...On previous reads I got much more of the manipulative sense Rapsie refers to with his offering Arya choices she doesn't really want. But Arya doesn't ask for anything either. She could have asked for passage to the Wall to go to Jon or asked to be an apprentice to someone like Syrio. So I'm less sure about the degree of the manipulative element this reread...

Having reread the chapter I'm still with Rapsie on this one. Arya is a child, it would have been easy enough for an adult to spend time with her and bring her to talk about what she wanted . The Kindly Old Man is perfectly capable of finding out her true name and the meaning of her death list, from that I feel he doesn't want to get into actually helping her out . Perhaps they believe that contingency is a manifestation of the will of God, if Arya of House Stark was brought in on the incoming tide from Westeros to their house it must be the will of God. The only thing stopping them from chucking her out must be the suspicion that they can or should make use of her even if they feel uncertain about this on account of her gender. I note that nothing he offers her even gives her a moments pause - is that chance or judgement on his part?

[The Sleeper]

Having reread the chapter I'm still with Rapsie on this one. Arya is a child, it would have been easy enough for an adult to spend time with her and bring her to talk about what she wanted . The Kindly Old Man is perfectly capable of finding out her true name and the meaning of her death list, from that I feel he doesn't want to get into actually helping her out . Perhaps they believe that contingency is a manifestation of the will of God, if Arya of House Stark was brought in on the incoming tide from Westeros to their house it must be the will of God. The only thing stopping them from chucking her out must be the suspicion that they can or should make use of her even if they feel uncertain about this on account of her gender. I note that nothing he offers her even gives her a moments pause - is that chance or judgement on his part?

I am somewhat confused. In what sense do you mean helping her out? Moving her along with her training or finding another place for her? Arya came to them after all, though recomended.

The things he offered her sounded pretty much like what young girls could hope for in Braavos. Softer service, an assortment of potential husbands with various benefits and I imagine being a courtesan would be a desIrable fate for many young girls in Braavos.

[Lummel]

I am somewhat confused. In what sense do you mean helping her out? Moving her along with her training or finding another place for her? Arya came to them after all, though recomended.

The things he offered her sounded pretty much like what young girls could hope for in Braavos. Softer service, an assortment of potential husbands with various benefits and I imagine being a courtesan would be a desIrable fate for many young girls in Braavos.

By helping her out I mean helping her to do what she wanted, helping her to go where she wanted. He only offers her the opportunity to go to places she isn't interested in going to or doing things that she isn't interested in doing.

The Kindly Old Man may be offering her things that typical Braavosi girl would like but he knows that she is not a typical Braavosi girl. I don't think you have to be terribly clever to know that if you offer Arya of House Stark the opportunity to go to southern westeros or to become the wife of an honest apprentice, trainee courtesan etc that she is more likely than not to say no.

[The Sleeper]

By helping her out I mean helping her to do what she wanted, helping her to go where she wanted. He only offers her the opportunity to go to places she isn't interested in going to or doing things that she isn't interested in doing.

The Kindly Old Man may be offering her things that typical Braavosi girl would like but he knows that she is not a typical Braavosi girl. I don't think you have to be terribly clever to know that if you offer Arya of House Stark the opportunity to go to southern westeros or to become the wife of an honest apprentice, trainee courtesan etc that she is more likely than not to say no.

The way I read the scene is a pretty straight forward exposition. Arya went to the FM with a vague notion of becoming one. The KOM told her what it takes. The thing I was confused about was whether you think he was trying to discourage or encourage her. My take is that he was testing her commitment and trying to force her to make a choice. I am also of the opinion that Arya does want to become an FM, so in that sense he was helping her out

In that context the things he offered her were her realisic options wihtin his means to provide. It was those options Arya had to weigh against. The things a former princess of a fallen kingdom would need realistically would be safety and anonymity, otherwise her restored to her rightfull place and her enemies crushed. Two things he has been pretty clear he has no interest in, as he is also been pretty clear that he doesn't train warriors. It is also of note that this whole confrontation takes place after the Waif walked in on Arya training with Needle. They must have known she had stuff with her, when she came to them, yet this suggests that there aware to an extent of Needle's significance and hence chose to force the confrontation.

Another thing to consider is that we are seeing this through Arya's POV which might suggest that the confrontational tone is coming from her rather than the KOM.

Your post suggested that the KOM is ambivalent about her continued training. That may very well be the case, though I suspect it has more to do with her character rather than her gender. Her name and heritage are a liablity to an organization like them. For the most part the KOM appears to let her initiate the stages of her training. Her lessons in detecting lies begin after Arya asks how he konws she is lying and her learnign to control her facial exrpessions begins after she asks the KOM how she can change her face. That could reinforce the ambivalence or be simply a training method.

[Ragnorak]

Having reread the chapter I'm still with Rapsie on this one. Arya is a child, it would have been easy enough for an adult to spend time with her and bring her to talk about what she wanted . The Kindly Old Man is perfectly capable of finding out her true name and the meaning of her death list, from that I feel he doesn't want to get into actually helping her out . Perhaps they believe that contingency is a manifestation of the will of God, if Arya of House Stark was brought in on the incoming tide from Westeros to their house it must be the will of God. The only thing stopping them from chucking her out must be the suspicion that they can or should make use of her even if they feel uncertain about this on account of her gender. I note that nothing he offers her even gives her a moments pause - is that chance or judgement on his part?

Damn you! And just as I was getting over the Garlan dagger in my back.

Actually I'm not sure there's all that much daylight between our takes. He is clearly a pretty damn insightful guy and if he had paternal best interests for Arya at heart he would act differently. He would certainly be capable of smuggling her to the Mormonts, Manderlys, Glovers, etc. Even fostering her with a family in Braavos like Jon thinks of doing until the war is over seems well within his means.

My questioning was more about how actively manipulative he is being or more specifically about the future implications of his current manipulations. He has a bit of a laissez faire approach rather than a Varys or Littlefinger agenda based approach. He is offering her a legitimate choice and one that she could take without finding a dagger in her back on the way out. Whatever marketing pitch for a career with the FM is buried in his presentation he is very honest about it and the part about not being allowed to kill for revenge isn't exactly a huge attraction for Arya either. I suppose my question is about how much the Kindly Man is sinking his claws into Arya vs. how much is he taking a wait and see approach with this girl child who has a curious affinity for their prayer of origin. The more his motivations lean toward his taking a wait and see approach, the more flexibility Arya would have to leave should she choose to at some point in the future. If he's sinking his claws into her, she's probably already close to a point where leaving isn't an option unless she carves her way out in blood. If this were LF manipulating her our answer would be pretty clear, but what are we to make of this gentle grandfatherly assassin's motivations?

[Lummel]

The way I read the scene is a pretty straight forward exposition. Arya went to the FM with a vague notion of becoming one. The KOM told her what it takes. The thing I was confused about was whether you think he was trying to discourage or encourage her. My take is that he was testing her commitment and trying to force her to make a choice. I am also of the opinion that Arya does want to become an FM, so in that sense he was helping her out...

I don't think that the kindly old man wants to either encourage or discourage Arya from joining the faceless men - I suspect he is ambivelent about how precisely she can serve them - but the purpose of the exchange to my mind is to force Arya to commit herself as an act of her own 'free will' to joining the faceless men by giving her less palatable options at the same time removing any illusions that she has that she can make membership of the faceless men work to her advantage by killing the people on her death list.

If as you say she comes recommended to the house of black and white then really there is no choice involved for Arya, it is rather a question of getting her to sign on the dotted line.

In my view the kindly old man can hardly be helping her out by allowing her to become a faceless man when he knows that she is interested in joining the organisation because she wants to be able to assasinate the people on her death list and when he also knows that once she becomes a faceless man that is the one thing she will never be able to do.

...He is clearly a pretty damn insightful guy and if he had paternal best interests for Arya at heart he would act differently. He would certainly be capable of smuggling her to the Mormonts, Manderlys, Glovers, etc. Even fostering her with a family in Braavos like Jon thinks of doing until the war is over seems well within his means.

My questioning was more about how actively manipulative he is being or more specifically about the future implications of his current manipulations. He has a bit of a laissez faire approach rather than a Varys or Littlefinger agenda based approach. He is offering her a legitimate choice and one that she could take without finding a dagger in her back on the way out. Whatever marketing pitch for a career with the FM is buried in his presentation he is very honest about it and the part about not being allowed to kill for revenge isn't exactly a huge attraction for Arya either. I suppose my question is about how much the Kindly Man is sinking his claws into Arya vs. how much is he taking a wait and see approach with this girl child who has a curious affinity for their prayer of origin. The more his motivations lean toward his taking a wait and see approach, the more flexibility Arya would have to leave should she choose to at some point in the future. If he's sinking his claws into her, she's probably already close to a point where leaving isn't an option unless she carves her way out in blood. If this were LF manipulating her our answer would be pretty clear, but what are we to make of this gentle grandfatherly assassin's motivations?

I suppose it reminded me of wanting to get somebody to approve of an option they find unpalatable by giving them a couple of other options that they will like even less. To my mind this is highly manipulative but showing more subtly than the likes of Lord Baelish. The end result is to push her into assenting to do something that she never had any interest in doing (serving the god of many faces) and giving up on what she did want (either going home or gaining revenge depending on how you read the hungry but not for food line in Arya I AFFC).

I agree entirely that he could have got her to the North and to my mind we should be suspicious that he doesn't offer her that choice, it suggests to me that he has a sense of her value as an asset. I hadn't really thought about it before but conceivably the kindly old man could himself be puzzled or in a state of doubt of quite what to do with her :dunno:

gentle and grandfatherly...hmm...like Qyburn or Ser Barristan :laugh:

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Very interesting remarks by everyone.

I tend to believe that every bit of info the KOM gives to Arya about the FM, is true. They teach her to detect lies, after all. However, the "true" truth can be revealed only when every piece of the puzzle in in place.

My impressions so far:

- The doors, one black and one white with a white face on the black and a black face on the white, remind me of the Tao symbol. My knowledge and understanding of Asian philosophy and religions is very very limited and therefore I can't elaborate on possible analogies and meanings, but I think that this resemblance suggests that the FM do have a spiritual and philosophical basis.

- The KOM and the Waif never leave the temple, which implies, IMO, that they "wear" their original faces. They don't need another and they seem to use their "magic" only for a reason. The description of the Kindly Old Man focuses on his facial expression, not his features. The immage I see is that of an old man in a state of internal serenity. As he says, "Years of prayer and sacrifice and study are required ...", so I suppose their training also includes some sort of meditation and relevent practices.

- "Men may whisper of the Faceless Men of Braavos, but ...": The general knowledge about the FM does not reflect what they really are. In Westeros they are mostly not heard of, or they are thought as extremely expensive hired assassins. The Braavosi know a few things that are correct as facts (like that they don't kill people they know) but as shown in the previous chapter, they don't really know or understand their philosophy. (They gave Arya gifts to remember them. They don't know that they are not supposed to have personal posessions).

- They seem to be able to do more than just detect lies. I think they can "read" the body language. This makes them almost omniscient. Almost. I don't think they know a priori what exactly Arya wants, what is her character or her potential. They watch her closely to study her but I don't think they know everything about her. A few of her character traits are obvious, but she has learned to be very secretive and distrusting. They test her and she tests them as well. I am not sure if they know about Needle.

- I think that most of their recruits have given themselves as the sacrifice-payment to fulfill one death wish (no one living a happy life would chose such a life). Arya is different. She does not ask them to kill for her, she wants to "steal" their powers for her own reasons. I believe this makes them cautious and reserved about training her, and the coin plays an important role in accepting her.

EDIT: Helping children is not what they do. If not the coin, I think they would just send her away without giving her any alternatives. The alternatives they give are just what the iron coin can "buy" her. (If she said she wanted to go to the Wall, I think they might put her on a ship to Eastwatch, if such a ship was available. They wouldn't go as far as hiring a ship for her. The coin could not pay for that.)

- They seem to have a very wide network of connections. I think that some of those people are former trainees that failed or wanted out. Valar dohaerys, but each serves in the way they can.

[The Sleeper]

@ Ragnorak and Lummel

I find some inherent assumptions in your conclusions. One is that the KOM exists to cater to Arya's needs and desires and that failure to do so means that he is disingenuous/manipulative towards her. There is very little we know about him. We can hardly be sure that he is in fact a man to begin with. He is apparently in charge of indoctrination and guidance of new recruits. There are those there other than Arya. There is no indication that Arya is receiving any kind of special treatment. He is apparenlty teaching her what he had been taught himself. There is a limit to what he would do to accomondate Arya should she chose to depart and I suspect these play to his own interests in the context ShadowCat mentioned. One could argue that he did not have to provide her with any alternatives, at all. It still would have been Arya's choice to get on board or get off the train. The other options you proposed while probably being within his means, do also probably involve him getting out of his way. From the narrative perspective all these options have been explored and rejected by Arya beforehand as it would involve her becoming a pawn in the hands of strangers, an experience she didn't relish in the hands of the BwB. The one option that is somewhat unresolved is to send her to Jon. Assuming it is no more trouble than he is willing to go to, it is still problematic.

There is also the assumption that in prompting her to go on with her training he does not have her best interests in mind and is looking how to use her. In the sense than being an FM is considered by him a service, then yes he is using her. Considering, however, that he has gone through the same traingin himself and is the head priest, the primary assumption would be that he considers beign an FM a duty and an honor he would not bestow upon anyone. It is more likely that he is concerned whether Arya is good enough to be an FM rather than whether being an FM is good enough for Arya. Any further use the FM would need to make of her would assume an agenda for the FM, other than what is stated in Arya's arc. This is a possibility hinted by Jaqen at athe Citadel. It does not necessarily imply any special part for Arya in it.

Also, there is the assumption that there is some sort of religious requirement, that Arya proceed on her own free will. This may be the case, but I think it is also a practical one.As we see later on with the blindness, the training involved is extremely demanding and one can't go through it half-assed or slacking off. It would be therefore imperative for the KOM to impress the commitment and devotion required to candidates if they are ot have any hope of coming through.

[Lummel]

...EDIT: Helping children is not what they do. If not the coin, I think they would just send her away without giving her any alternatives. The alternatives they give are just what the iron coin can "buy" her. (If she said she wanted to go to the Wall, I think they might put her on a ship to Eastwatch, if such a ship was available. They wouldn't go as far as hiring a ship for her. The coin could not pay for that.)

- They seem to have a very wide network of connections. I think that some of those people are former trainees that failed or wanted out. Valar dohaerys, but each serves in the way they can.

No I don't think that the Faceless men might help Arya out of pure goodwill and love for lost orphans, clearly if they were to do it there would be a price, but seeing the options the kindly old man offers and what we see of them, then parking Arya in somebodies household and arranging passage for her on the next ship to Eastwatch or White Harbour in exchange for favours, support and assistance at a later date is certainly well within their power. Equally it is within their power to gift wrap her and send her to Cersei. Keeping her at the house of black and white suggests to me that they believe that this is the most or best use they can get from Arya as an asset.

The Tao /Dao I think alines with the Faceless Men in so far as they seem to seek to be the instruments of God - subordinating any indidividual will or wish to the Divinity. In Taoism as far as I understand it you seek to be one with the Tao - the natural order of the universe, death gives every appearance as being part of the natural order of things, as one observes each autumn. But equally it might just be a marker, GRRM showing us that these people have a religious/philosophical outlook.

The other thing is that it is binary - white and black, the other people/person/group to have a binary religious outlook are the R'hlloristas - light or dark, good or bad, you're with us or against us. To my mind that is a warning signal that both groups are too narrow minded, the "morally better" characters I feel show a broader more appreciative awareness of the complexities of life - that also might be Taoism, but then Taoism is holistic so its difficult to get away from ;)

@ Ragnorak and Lummel

I find some inherent assumptions in your conclusions. One is that the KOM exists to cater to Arya's needs and desires and that failure to do so means that he is disingenuous/manipulative towards her.

My assumption is not that the kindly old man exists to cater to Arya's needs and desires but that he is serving the needs and desires of his organisation, I further see no reason to assume that what is beneficial to the faceless men is beneficial to Arya.

My reading of Arya is that her narrative path is a downward spiral: The Ned to Yoren to the BWB to Sandor to the Faceless Men. Yoren intends to drop her off at Winterfell, not because he's good or loves Arya but there is a benefit - House Stark has been good to the Watch, so now the Watch will be good to House Stark, the BWB and Sandor initially intend to bring Arya to her mother not because they are good and love Arya but because they will get a pile of gold/some other benefit out of it.

Now with the Faceless Men Arya is in the underworld. There is no win-win, there is no benefit to Arya in their proposal to her. No personal revenge, no home ultimately no identity - ie a state of not having a personal connection to home or revenge.

However at each cycle the author has intervened with full irony and prevented Arya from achieving what she wanted and thus saved her from having a dog named after her by Ramsey or being killed at the Red Wedding or captured by Jaime Lannster. The suspense for me is if GRRM will continue the pattern and arrange for her escape (:thumbsup:) or if he'll break the pattern ( :crying: ). I suppose the underworld - likewise for Bran and Sansa will be the most dangerous level for the hero, but therefore also the one where they have the most to gain.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

“Yes, she thought, but not for food.”

The answer to what she’s hungry for may be a key to explain Arya’s current and near future choices. Belonging and revenge have been suggested and I think they are both valid but in an intertwined, not mutually exclusive way. However, it’s not what she’s seeking by joining in the HoBaW. She has put these desires aside for now, as her journey has made her realize that she lacks the means to fulfill them.

Furthermore, the terminal station of her Riverlands journey was a reminder that she’s a vulnerable little thing and an easy object of exploitation: “She would never have cheated the Hound, she thought …”. Not only that, but also she “never seemed to find the places she set out to reach”.

I will be a mouse again, she thought glumly, the way I was in Harrenhal before I ran away.

…

Suddenly she was somewhere else... back in Harrenhal with Gendry, maybe, or with the Hound in the woods along the Trident. Salty is a stupid child, she told herself. I am a wolf, and will not be afraid.

I think these lines expose her deepest fear: being weak, her life and fate in the absolute control of someone too powerful for her to fight. Gendry and the Hound are not remembered as companions in this context. Gendry is referenced only as another mouse, as helpless as she was in the devastating horror that was Harrenhal and the Hound was the one who made her feel utterly weak and dependent, like a baby, once again.

So, I believe that her immediate “hunger” is for power. The kind of power that would enable her to go wherever she wants, to stay free, to efficiently confront danger, to be shown some respect and, in the long term, to get her revenge and maybe, maybe, someday create a pack that’s really hers.

The training that the FM could give her is the only realistic opportunity that has been presented to her, to obtain this sort of power. She can never be like the Hound, she knows that by now and anyway, the Hound died after all and so did Syrio. Jaquen didn’t, though. Jaquen inspired fear to the likes of Rorge and Bitter. Jaquen could walk out of Harrenhal just like that. She wants to have this power and she pretty much told it clearly to the KOM: “He said he’d teach me secrets”.

The other options the KOM offers her are not appealing, not (mainly) because they’re out of her character but because they do not offer her what she’s hungry for.

@Lummel, I believe she would equally reject the options you propose, for the same reasons more or less.

Parking her in somebody’s household was actually one of the proposed alternatives, as it is not much different than finding her “softer service in the household of some merchant”. Arya doesn’t care about things like social position and she doesn’t mind work. Jon thinking it would be the best for her, just shows that he has lost episodes in the series of his little sister’s life. She would not take that option.

Arranging passage for her on the next ship to her desired destination? White Harbor has very few, if any, advantages compared to Gulltown. It would still require her to cross a war torn North, occupied by Ironborn, to her knowledge. She has learned that aiming to a destination rarely equals arriving, especially when you are only a little girl.

Eastwatch is a very uncommon destination for ships, so it should be considered a very special and out of the way offer. Jumping ahead a little bit, Arya considered the possibility to go to the Watch only when a couple of Black brothers seemed to be available, that could accompany her there. I don’t think she would try to reach Castle Black on her own. She doesn’t think she’s ready yet.

I don’t think that the KOM’s purpose is to manipulate her by offering worse alternatives. If so, he would not paint the path of the FM in such dark colors. It seems to me that he is trying various approaches in order to discourage her. When the argument “There are other alternatives, you know” fails, he goes on to other arguments, aiming to discover and appeal to her deeper wishes and fears, not to lure her in but rather, to orientate her out. IMO, he wants to make sure that she understands, as completely as possible, the consequences of her choice.

edited for spelling & grammar

[The Sleeper]

One of the themes being explored in Arya's arc (and Sansa's as well) is deception and facades. Arya has made it through by hiding her identity and Sansa by hiding her feelings. These guises however worked only so far. It held up against people who were not interested to look any deeper and the protection they confered was dubious. It didn't protect Sansa form Joffey's whims, nor did it protect Arya from the dangers an orphan faced on the road. It also did not spare them of their eventual fate. Sansa's marriage to Tyrion turned her into a Lannister and Arya became the orphan she pretended to be.

In AFFC the stakes are raised. The girls' former modes of deception are deemed inadequate and the need to adopt facades that go deeper than the surface is introduced. Indeed, these facades function in many ways as vehicles to introduce permanent changes in the girls' personalities and make them more alligned to the designs of their new keepers. In Sansa's case, the kind of lying LF is teaching is somewhat situational. The purpose is manipulation and exploiting their target's expectations so that he/she deceives himself. The bottomline appears to be understanding your opponenets motivations and circumstances and present him with an attractive narrative that suits the deceiver's goals. In order for this to be effective Sansa is told to adopt this attitude at a more fundamental level and to be kept up at all times. In short creating, maintaining and exploiting appearances in order to deceive and manipulate, not only in relation to the mark but also to the self.

The FM take a much more thorough approach. The subjective approach to the individual target for deception or the mark is eliminated. The fundamentals are tought and practised in a secluded environment and Arya is tought to recognize lies outside of any context and to control her own facial expressions. In some ways this is a continuation and application of Syrio's teachings to see with one's eyes rather than their mind or heart. In order for this to be achieved, the heart and mind must be eliminated and/or removed from the process of perception and action completelyn. No-one has no preconceptions that would allow her to be deceived. By controlling her face any emotional response is eliminated and all action emerges form calcualtion, so being no-one emerges as the ultimate form of self-control. There is no lie the FM can be caught in as there is no truth behind the mask.

This is consisstent with the notion of the facade becoming more than a facade but being applied bone deep, becoming an integral part of the personality. It ties also with the FM philosophy besides it's practical application in deception. It serves also as a part of their religious devotion. No-one besides having no preconceptions has no desires or purpose either and is free to truly be an instrument. Which in a sense makes them dead themselves and thus free of sin and suffering and also free to share the gift they possess.

It has been mentioned there are eastern influences in their inception. While it is true that they have the belief that existance is suffering, I think they are true nihilists in their conclusion. The state of being free of pain and sin is death. They have and seek power, but refuse any initiative in applying it, claiming only to answer prayers. This ties in to the question of the price of power. Their answer is that ultimate power demands the ultimate price, one they are willing to pay. After all power is not something one possesses, but rather something that possesses oneself.

Do we take them on their word for it? Well, nobody is that good (or that bad) and their motto "Valar Dohaerys" and Jaqen suggest that the god makes demands as well as answer prayers. Still, I do think that this is something they strive for and this kind of belief offers great room to rationalize other pursuits.

Does Arya buy into it? Eleven year-old, black and white and practically oriented Arya cannot quite conceive it, as this philosophy is completely alien to anything she has experienced before. Arya goes in with her own agenda in order to cash in Jaqen's promise. It is important to note, I think, that Arya has no religious faith in the sense of pacing her trust in gods. She places standards on them, expects results and makes conclusions on their apparent actions or lack there off. This is much the same way she behaves within the HoB&W. She lies to them, both to test them and to advance by telling them what she believes they want to hear. She thinks to her self that she has always been Arya in her heart, regardless of her guises. She obeys and does her chores, but also maintains an observant and reserved attitude. I see her attitude as a bit of digging to find what she came to them for and trying ot make up her mind about them. She also compares what she sees and hears to her own previous experiences. The KOM responds by answering and asking questions, exposing her lies and telling how and why they are visible. He makes the same observation about Arya's superficial application of her guises and presents this as a problem. He allows her for the most part to initiate the various stages of her training and in some respect confronting her about the lies she tels herself and what she really wants. The result is that Arya prgresses in her "excavating" efforts while she getting herself "deeper" as a result.

I think we can safely assume that the KOM understands Arya better than she does herself. He knows her agenda, but I think allows it as long as it keeps her moving forward and is aware that indoctrination does not occur overnight. At the same time he is firm on their purpose and slowly exposes to Arya to elements of their faith that she can compare to her own experiences with the aim that she will come to the same conclusions herself.

In the midst of all this there is Needle. Practising wit it, prompted the greatest confrontation between Arya and the KOM and getting rid of all her stuff is what got her to be accepted as a novice. It was also a moment of crisis for Arya about what she really wanted and what she is willing to give up to get it. The jury is out. Arya does not get rid of Needle, but doesn't leave the temple either. She puts is aside. The jury is also out on whether the FM, actually know that she stashed it and if so, why they gave her her robe knowing her still present reservations? A possible answer is that they expect her to let go of it eventually and putting it away is good enough at the current stage. The other possible answer is that Arya can in fact keep secrets from the FM.

A breakthrough is achieved at the end of her chapter as Arya is invited to construct a new personna, so that she can explore the streets of Braavos beyond the temple. As baby steps are needed this is a personna she can maintain easily. She is after all a Westerosi orphan that came from King's Landing and her chosen name and the name of the ship that brought her are direct links to her past. This personna very much feels like a reward for Arya.

[The Sleeper]

double post