Would Rhaegar have been a better father to Jon than Ned?

[Winters]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHODERHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO.

By the Old Gods and the New, none can best the Ned. And seriously, Rhaegar? Could you choose a worse father? (Aside from the 30 other horrid fathers but...)

[OrcusOfUndeath]

No. Ned we know for a fact that Ned was a great, caring father, who absolutely loved his children and raised them to be good people. Rhaegar wasn't made from that kinda stuff.

[Moonray]

Don't know what kind of father he would be if he wuld be just as good or not than Ned we don't have that much information on this. What is known, is that his daughter was hiding in his room seeking protection/confort while he was not home, so he was not absent father, and in Danny's vision he was together with Ella and his infant son, so again not apsent. In addition to that Jamie dreams of Rheagar accusing him of not protecting his family Rheager put in his protection while he was at war (getting smashed with a hammer).

So in short he was not the worst (akaTarly) and probably not absent father.(aka King Bob,Stannis)

[Squire Dalbridge]

Even though the execution of her daughters direwolf was one of the most stupid things that anyone has yet done. I really couldn't believe it happening when reading it for the first time. And now even less.

[Pikachu101]

I don't understand why everyone's saying "we don't know enough about Rhaegar to make an argument" <_<

Lets see what the text has shown us:

1. He abandoned his family

2. Left them in the clutches of his insane father

3. Clearly felt that a prophecy was more important than them

4. Didn't even insure the safety of his children

5. He more or less viewed Rhaenys and Aegon as tools for ASOIAF prophecy

Sure there isn't enough evidence of Rhaegar's parenting skills :rolleyes:

He clearly viewed them the same way every other nobleman views children, so comparing him to Ned is ridiculous. Ned never viewed his children as tools, and actually cared about them not what they could give.

I'm also under the impression that Rhaegar wouldn't want anything to do with Jon because he isn't Visenya

[The Prince of Ice]

I don't understand why everyone's saying "we don't know enough about Rhaegar to make an argument" <_<

Lets see what the text has show us:

1. He abandoned his family

2. Left them in the clutches of his insane father

3. Clearly felt that a prophecy was more important than them

4. Didn't even insure the safety of his children

5. He more or less viewed Rhaenys and Aegon as tools for ASOIAF prophecy

Sure there isn't enough evidence of Rhaegar's parenting skills :rolleyes:

He clearly viewed them the same way every other nobleman views children, so comparing him to Ned is ridiculous. Ned never viewed his children and tools, and actually cared about them not what they could give.

I'm also under the impression that Rhaegar wouldn't want anything to do with Jon because he isn't Visenya

As i said earlier i dont even know why this is a question, there is no competition, Rhaegar was an awful father.

[Nami]

I honestly think Rhaegar would be pretty pissed off if after all that Jon isn't Visenya and therefore can't be Aegon's third head.

Ned and Cat raised their children differently to most of Westeros, noble children are tools to better their family status and name. There's no reason to why Rhaegar wouldn't feel the same way about his children, therefore he would see Jon as a mistake because he can't be Aegon's third head.

I doubt Rhaegar would be pissed off if he had a second son, if anything it would be even better, he had a spare heir in case anything happened to Aegon. It was always great for royal families to have as many sons as possible.

Why would Elia be ok with it?

People need to seriously stop romanticising her into a Disney princess <_<

Well I go by what's in the books, and what we know is that her brother, Prince Oberyn, had 344759385984353 bastards and no one blinked. So since we don't know anything about Elia but looking at her family and culture, I'm guessing she would be like whatever. Doesn't meant she would shower the kid with love, but wouldn't be a bitch to him either (like Cat was at times) making clear the kid wasn't. welcome.

I'm not romanticising her into a Disney princess, I'm going with what little we do know, while you obviously just want to go by your head canon.

[Pikachu101]

I doubt Rhaegar would be pissed off if he had a second son, if anything it would be even better, he had a spare heir in case anything happened to Aegon. It was always great for royal families to have as many sons as possible.

I doubt Rhaegar thought anything would happen to his precious Aegon; he's the Prince that was Promised.

The whole point of taking Lyanna and getting her pregnant was so that Aegon would get his third head; Visenya. So yes, I think he'd be pretty pissed if after all that trouble Visenya is Jon.

Rhaegar clearly put a prophecy at a higher importance than his kids so I don't think he'd be so bothered about the kid who doesn't fit in it.

So since we don't know anything about Elia but looking at her family and culture, I'm guessing she would be like whatever.

Why do people keep on using Elia's culture as a reason? <_<

She's a proud noblewoman who should not be expected to tolerate Jon's presence. I think her hot blooded, Dornish culture is enough to show that she won't tolerate Jon.

As far as I'm concerned she'd demand Jon was sent to Winterfell the minute he turned seven.

Doesn't meant she would shower the kid with love, but wouldn't be a bitch to him either (like Cat was at times) making clear the kid wasn't. welcome.

Yeah because Cat was a total bitch wasn't she :rolleyes:

I think Elia would make it very clear that Jon isn't welcome, why you think she wouldn't is beyond me.

Cat saw Jon as a threat to her kids and so would Elia:

A) he's a boy

B ) his mother's family is more powerful

C) Blackfyre Rebellion

Back to topic:

Rhaegar's already proven to be a crappy father, why people think he won't be to the kid who doesn't fit Aegon's prophecy is beyond me

[Minsc]

Well I go by what's in the books, and what we know is that her brother, Prince Oberyn, had 344759385984353 bastards and no one blinked.

Oberyn was never married, while Rhaegar obviously was thus there is a difference in their actions. In how, Oberyn's bastards don't threaten any of his trueborn children's(as they don't exist) inheritance. In contrast, Jon as Rhaegar's son by Lyanna would threaten Elia's trueborn children's inheritance thus she likely wouldn't be as accepting. In how, like Catelyn she would desire to protect her children and their inheritance.

[Nami]

I don't see why Jon would be a threat to Aegon since Aegon is the eldest child and first in the line of succession

[WildBlood]

But it is mentioned in the books umpteen million times how the Dornish are more understanding with bastards and paramores. Not to mention the long history of Targ polygamy. She married a targ and she is dornish. These things, in theory, could have been accepted and expected by her.

[King of Winters]

Rhaegar would've showered Jon with more gifts but Ned is the better father as he raised honourably and Jon turned out LC of the NW.

[TalalOfDorne]

But it is mentioned in the books umpteen million times how the Dornish are more understanding with bastards and paramores. Not to mention the long history of Targ polygamy. She married a targ and she is dornish. These things, in theory, could have been accepted and expected by her.

Not really. It is proven that the Martells were upset about what Rhaegar did.

[LadyMacks]

Rhaegar probably would have been a good father to Jon but he was a bit obsessed with the prophecy and probably would have instilled it on all of his children too severely so I think in that respect Ned would be the better father.

[Minsc]

I don't see why Jon would be a threat to Aegon since Aegon is the eldest child and first in the line of succession

Daeron II was before Daemon Blackfyre and what happened there? Moreover, Jon would be the son of Rhaegar's beloved wife and have much more support then Aegon if he decided to usurp Aegon's crown. In how, he would likely recieve backing from the North, Riverlands, and the Reach. While, Aegon would only get Dornish support for sure.

[honeyed chicken]

1. He abandoned his family

2. Left them in the clutches of his insane father

He did leave his family to be with Lyanna.

That much we know is true. But leaving them in the clutches of Aerys? Did Rhaegar leave them or did Aerys take them as hostages to ensure Rhaegar's loyalty? Do we know that for sure?

I'm going to be the black sheep here and say not so fast on Ned being the better dad.

Consider the situation:

Lyanna put Ned ("Promise me Ned!" - on her death bed, no less. How do you wriggle out of that?!) in a nearly impossible position. He's got a kid on his hands that the king/his best bud would to want to kill if he knew about him. This same king who has in his employ the master of spies who knows everything all over the kingdom. And, oh by the way, he can't let his family know either. That's a VERY screwed up situation and normal people don't come out of screwed up situations being normal (not normal seeming, anyway).

It's like giving a kit (fox pup) to a rooster and saying, "why don't you raise him with your chicks".

Yeah, that's gonna work great.

So, Jon is a bitter little pill of a human being with big time anger issues. Can't blame him; not his fault.

Ned was a great dad to Robb and all Catelyn's kids, but Jon? Come on. You're kidding, right?!

[WildBlood]

Not really. It is proven that the Martells were upset about what Rhaegar did.

Proven where? I know it is proven that he harbored hate for 16 years against the Lannisters. And I know it was proven that for 16 years he was plotting to put the Targaryens back in power... So maybe he was upset but it obviously wasn't that bad.

And besides, that doesn't really disprove the point I was making. It is stated multiple times throughout the books about how Dorne has very libertine customs and are very open sexually. If Rhaegar had taken the 'normal' path and married Lyanna publicly, then what? What I am saying is, if you marry in to the Targ family, being a sister wife HAS to be in the back of your mind.

[Minsc]

Proven where? I know it is proven that he harbored hate for 16 years against the Lannisters. And I know it was proven that for 16 years he was plotting to put the Targaryens back in power... So maybe he was upset but it obviously wasn't that bad.

The fact that they only supported Aerys in RR because he had Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon held hostage.

And besides, that doesn't really disprove the point I was making. It is stated multiple times throughout the books about how Dorne has very libertine customs and are very open sexually. If Rhaegar had taken the 'normal' path and married Lyanna publicly, then what? What I am saying is, if you marry in to the Targ family, being a sister wife HAS to be in the back of your mind.

Besides Aegon I how many Targaryen kings had more then one wife?

[TalalOfDorne]

Proven where?

From SSM:

"However, the Dornishmen did not support him as strongly as they might have, in part because of anger at his treatment of Elia, "

They were upset. The Martell wouldnt like it if Rhaegar had kids from another wife that could rival Elias.

[WildBlood]

The fact that they only supported Aerys in RR because he had Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon held hostage.

Then how do you explain the plotting to remove King Robert and put the Targs back in power? Or the pact? Not to mention the fact that the only reason Doran decided to put the matter to rest after RR was because he thought Dorne was too weak.

Besides Aegon I how many Targaryen kings had more then one wife?

And this doesn't really prove anything.. How many times was it mentioned throughout the books that the Targs practiced polygamy? It was certainly common knowledge. Just because past kings really had no reason (dragons) for more wives, eapecially since Rhaegar was obsessed with the prophecy, it should have been expected.