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[Book Spoiler] Siege of Riverrun in season 4?


Pinkie Baelish

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Was. He's changed after he comes back from his "adventure" and stands up to both his father and his sister several times, and this happens in the books.

He is still a coward. His adventure does not change him as completely and suddenly as you would suggest.

The very first three things he does when he arrives at KL are:

1. Close Brienne in a cell.

2. Fuck his sister. While menstruating. On an altar. Next to his dead's son body.

3. Have the following conversation with his father:

Jaime: “Cersei claims that Tyrion did it.”

Tywin: “Your brother served the king the poisoned wine, with a thousand people looking on.”

Jaime: “That was rather foolish of him.”

Tywin: “I have taken Tyrion’s squire into custody. His wife’s maids as well. We shall see if they have anything to tell us. Ser Addam’s gold cloaks are searching for the Stark girl, and Varys has offered a reward. The king’s justice will be done.”

Jaime: “You would execute your own son?”

Tywin: “He stands accused of regicide and kinslaying. If he is innocent, he has nothing to fear. First we must needs consider the evidence for and against him.”

Notice that he had already accepted Cersei's word that Tyrion was guilty, and it's his father that points out that the sentence is not out yet. And then, Jaime's only issue is that he shouldn't be executed (implying that the Wall is OK). And again, Tywin remembers that if Tyrion is innocent, he will be fine.

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  • 4 weeks later...

He will still be there. It sounds like you guys are not too keen on this, but I believe they have him there so that Cercsei has a better reason to blame him for Joff's death / grow distant towards him through this part of the story. Secondly, he will witness the events which may very well influence him to believe Tyrion is innocent, and thus ultimately why he releases him.

I think those two aspects of it will be interesting to watch and strike me as being improvements on the book.

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Episode 4 is generally the episode that is the game-changer(Tyrion's arrest, birth of the shadow monster, Dracarys). So it makes sense why they would choose to have the PW in episode 4. Plus, if they do it in episode 2, Tyrion would be in a cell or on trial for 5-6 episodes. It just wouldn't make for good TV. They should use the first 4 episodes to clearly establish Oberyn and his intentions for vengeance.

GRRM's episodes don't necessarily have to be ones with big moments in them. His episodes in seasons 1 and 3 were not as major as other episodes in that season. He might be writing episode 2 because he'll do the best job of introducing Oberyn. But I digress.

This is why I was considering moving it to season 4. It just makes the Lannisters and Freys look like stooges if the castle is still standing for another season and a half. I would hate to see it cut although I wouldn't be surprised, if they choose to whitewash Jaime in the future.

Nonsense. If PW is in episode 2, then Tyrion would only spend 4 episodes in jail, with the duel in episode 6 and Tywin's murder in the episode 7. At that point, ASOS would be over except for the battle on the wall in episode 9 and only cat in episode 10. That, to me, would be a perfectly paced season with big events in episode 2, 6, 7, 9 and 10.

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It was a smart decision, mostly so that Jaime can have more screentime with certain characters instead of "wasting" time journeying.

From a structural POV, given their other decisions, it was probably hard to avoid, but I'll hold off on calling it a smart decision until we see how they actually handle Jaime and Brienne's presence in the context of Sansa's escape.

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He is still a coward. His adventure does not change him as completely and suddenly as you would suggest.

The very first three things he does when he arrives at KL are:

1. Close Brienne in a cell.

2. Fuck his sister. While menstruating. On an altar. Next to his dead's son body.

3. Have the following conversation with his father:

He did not close Brienne in a cell - that was Loras's doing. He was simply trying to find the best way to appease everyone involved, and one way he wouldn't be able to do that was by opposing Loras first chance he got. Not cowardly, but smart. Fucking Cersei is irrelevant here. And his conversation with Tywin isn't showing his acceptance of Cersei's word, but rather highlights the fact that he doesn't believe that Tyrion did it - the line about it being foolish should be a giveaway, since Jaime knows that's one thing Tyrion isn't. He also points out the circumstances behind the strange death of Renly to persuade Tywin that's what caused Joffrey's.

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