City of Detroit Files for Bankruptcy

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Shryke,

I think I see the confusion. If they are out side the political boundaries of Detroit they can't secede. Secession is when a subsection of an existing political entity attempts to legally and politically seperate the subsection from the larger section. You're using secession as a metaphore. However, because secession has a very specific meaning I don't think the metaphore works.

[Shryke]

Shryke,

I think I see the confusion. If they are out side the political boundaries of Detroit they can't secede. Secession is when a subsection of an existing political entity attempts to legally and politically seperate the subsection from the larger section. You're using secession as a metaphore. However, because secession has a very specific meaning I don't think the metaphore works.

Call it economic secession then.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Shryke,

The analogy only works if businesses and people don't have the right to relocate at will. That's why I asked if you believed government should have the power to prevent businesses from leaving.

[Shryke]

Shryke,

The analogy only works if businesses and people don't have the right to relocate at will. That's why I asked if you believed government should have the power to prevent businesses from leaving.

I don't see why.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Shryke,

Because if political subdivisions could leave voluntarily without it being an issue secession wouldn't be a big deal. You're attempting to imply there is something wrong with choosing to move elsewhere for any or no reason. Unless the City has the power to compel people to stay moving away isn't secession economic or otherwise.

[Shryke]

Shryke,

Because if political subdivisions could leave voluntarily without it being an issue secession wouldn't be a big deal. You're attempting to imply there is something wrong with choosing to move elsewhere for any or no reason. Unless the City has the power to compel people to stay moving away isn't secession economic or otherwise.

No, I'm not Scot. You are reading that in to what I'm saying for no reason.

This is your issue, not mine.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Look at Pittsburg and whatever they did. But to pull anything like that off, you need at least to maintain a downtown core, which hipsters might be able to act as the seed of.

Pittsburgh never really had the white/middle class flight. The city did shrink in population, but it kept enough jobs and was sufficiently pro-business that it weathered the loss of the steel industry without losing jobs faster than it lost people. The time for that has come and gone for Detroit. It's now in the uncharted territory of trying to rebuild a middle class and economy rather than preserving one.

Hell, you could maybe combine it with Raidne's idea and bulldoze a bunch of abandoned sections of the city and turn them over for industry or something.

Though I think the reputation of Detroit is gonna hinder this.

Unfortunately, you're probably right, and the way different groups are fighting the bankruptcy -- which is really the city's only hope -- isn't going to help convince businesses that it's a good place to do business.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Fair enough, but I think you are talking about ending up with an entirely different kind of Detroit than what I am talking about. Detroit should look like a city for 700,000 people. Demolish and/or reforest, and - as a libertarian law school professor of mine suggested, auction it off to the surrounding areas.

So basically, unincorporate swaths of the city so that it is more appropriate in size for its population? That makes some sense -- kind of like triage to save the parts you can save, and cut off the parts you can't. I suppose the land that was unincorporated would revert to the county or even the state for police service. That still leaves you with large bits of the remainder that would still be just slum, but maybe it would be easier to maintain.

It's really completely sad -- as much as it is the fault of the politicans, and the people who kept voting for him -- I'm sure there are a lot of decent people still living there who basically have no hope. There needs to be some radical, ground-up thinking on how to encourage some forms of business to open up. Maybe if you shrink the city, some of the newly "liberated" areas might adopt some very pro-business policies that at least would provide jobs to people living across the city line.

[Shryke]

Pittsburgh never really had the white/middle class flight. The city did shrink in population, but it kept enough jobs and was sufficiently pro-business that it weathered the loss of the steel industry without losing jobs faster than it lost people. The time for that has come and gone for Detroit. It's now in the uncharted territory of trying to rebuild a middle class and economy rather than preserving one.

Agreed. I'm wondering if they can preserve enough population to try and do the same on a smaller scale. Basically, accept that you are a smaller city now and go from there. Concentrate the population in a new urban core and try and rebuild appropriately sized industry.

Unfortunately, you're probably right, and the way different groups are fighting the bankruptcy -- which is really the city's only hope -- isn't going to help convince businesses that it's a good place to do business.

I don't think it matters about the bankruptcy, except in that however it finally shakes out will leave the city at some level of debt to take into account. I think it's more just, well, who's gonna want to relocate to Detroit? It ain't known these days for being a well run city.

So basically, unincorporate swaths of the city so that it is more appropriate in size for its population? That makes some sense -- kind of like triage to save the parts you can save, and cut off the parts you can't. I suppose the land that was unincorporated would revert to the county or even the state for police service. That still leaves you with large bits of the remainder that would still be just slum, but maybe it would be easier to maintain.

It's really completely sad -- as much as it is the fault of the politicans, and the people who kept voting for him -- I'm sure there are a lot of decent people still living there who basically have no hope. There needs to be some radical, ground-up thinking on how to encourage some forms of business to open up. Maybe if you shrink the city, some of the newly "liberated" areas might adopt some very pro-business policies that at least would provide jobs to people living across the city line.

In many ways, I think it's too late. Everyone knew Detroit was dying. It's been a punchline for a decade now. But nobody did anything and now the patient is dead.

[Sci-2]

Robocop begins a Kickstarter for the bankrupt city of Detroit

Robocop, Detroit's favorite half-man half-machine all-cop son, knew he had to act when Detroit announced bankruptcy last week, so he began this Kickstarter to help the Motor City out. I have to admit, the $100 million donation prize is pretty damned tempting....

[Tears of Lys]

Me:

(with corrected spelling)

I don't quite get the confusion. Maybe it's some association you have with the word secede?

They left the city and cut ties with it. They are more like independent cities afaik then suburbs of Detroit

People can leave Detroit, but if they're still within Wayne County, the county Detroit sits in, they're still contributing taxes that help it. In the small town I live in, we pay taxes to Wayne County, which is supposed to, theoretically, maintain our streets, plow in the winter, repair them, etc., etc., but in practice, we run our own maintenance departments that take care of these things. If we waited for Wayne County to do it, it would be like waiting for The Unholy Consult, only longer.

And unfortunately, Wayne County is still rife with the waste and corruption that Detroit is only now getting rid of (BTW, Kevin Orr, the Emergency Manager, has been running rings around the do-nothing city council in getting things done in the city already) Robert Ficano, the County Executive, has been a total nightmare.

In other news... Appraisers from Christie's, the famous auction house, recently made a visit to the Detroit Institute of Art to, ostensibly, examine some of the artwork there. Whether this was done at the request of the bond holders, or whoever is not known. (The emergency manager's spokesman denies any involvement.) And Christie's isn't saying. Major museums are crying foul and (eta) Christie's is being called "vultures" for this predatory behavior.

[Tears of Lys]

Detroit had a mayoral primary last night. The results were quite surprising to many. The first white candidate in 40 years, a write-in candidate.

Exit polls of black voters indicate a lot of reasons they went with Mike Duggan, ranging from "he'll be listened to in Lansing (the capital) more than a black mayor would" to "whoever's best for the job, no matter the race."

Duggan recently turned around the Detroit Medical Center - a massive complex that was bleeding money. It was a major undertaking, so he's got some good stats under his belt. If he does get elected mayor, though, the Emergency Manager is still here, Kevin Orr, which essentially would make the mayor a figurehead.

Oh, and the Emergency Manager's office finally admitted they have contracted with Christie's auction house to value the paintings. Not all are eligible for sale - the terms of their donation to the museum precluded it.

[TerraPrime]

Well, I would imagine that a more congenial working relations between the mayor's office and the emergency manager's office would expedite things. So perhaps that's a good thing?

[Tears of Lys]

Well, I would imagine that a more congenial working relations between the mayor's office and the emergency manager's office would expedite things. So perhaps that's a good thing?

Probably. But really, the mayor and council are sorta powerless right now. Dave Bing, the current mayor, is a pretty congenial guy, so it's not like the EM and he are at each other's throats. But, again, there's no reason for them to be. Orr holds all the cards.

Orr made a major misstep recently, or a gaffe maybe is a better word, in the WSJ, calling the Detroit government for the past several years, "dumb, happy, and rich." This did NOT go over well with Detroiters, especially retirees. He was undoubtedly referring to the council, but it went over like a lead balloon.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Probably. But really, the mayor and council are sorta powerless right now. Dave Bing, the current mayor, is a pretty congenial guy, so it's not like the EM and he are at each other's throats. But, again, there's no reason for them to be. Orr holds all the cards.

Orr made a major misstep recently, or a gaffe maybe is a better word, in the WSJ, calling the Detroit government for the past several years, "dumb, happy, and rich." This did NOT go over well with Detroiters, especially retirees. He was undoubtedly referring to the council, but it went over like a lead balloon.

To some extent, I'd imagine the bankruptcy might be something that might actually bring a degree of relief to a mayor. The city is completely hamstrung economically, and while Bing is a good guy, that really gave him no chance. He's not running again, but I imagine the guys who are running for it now are hoping it goes forward, hopefully finished in a year or so, so they will actually have a chance in the job.