CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is ‘Important Crime Deterrent’

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Look, I said I know it would never happen. I just think common sense says we could save lives by making guns illegal. Maybe a lot of lives. Most people don't seem interested in that though. So, it'll never happen, sadly.

Sure, in 10-20 years or so after our minor civil war dies down and hundreds of thousands or even millions are killed, we *might* see a 1 or 2 point drop in the homicide rate (probably not though, as the gun crowd is likely to win, and there remains no evidence that gun ownership is causally linked to crime). So I suppose if you want to kill thousands now so that hundreds might possibly live later, knock yourself out.

[MisterOJ]

Sure, in 10-20 years or so after our minor civil war dies down and hundreds of thousands or even millions are killed, we *might* see a 1 or 2 point drop in the homicide rate (probably not though, as the gun crowd is likely to win, and there remains no evidence that gun ownership is causally linked to crime). So I suppose if you want to kill thousands now so that hundreds might possibly live later, knock yourself out.

The fact that you believe people love their guns so much that attempting to take them away would cause a civil war speaks volumes.

[Sci-2]

The fact that you believe people love their guns so much that attempting to take them away would cause a civil war speaks volumes.

I don't know, I'd be willing to consider starting a civil war if the State decided to confiscate my dining table, let along [alone] what might [be] the best means of defense against both criminals and a corrupt government.

eta: For the record I have no guns and no inclination to purchase any.

[Lily Valley]

The fact that you believe people love their guns so much that attempting to take them away would cause a civil war speaks volumes.

Mr. OJ,

I like you, but your optimism and faith in the goodness of human nature are showing.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

The fact that you believe people love their guns so much that attempting to take them away would cause a civil war speaks volumes.

I don't love any of my guns particularly (well, my Ruger is pretty nice). Guns are a symbol. Many are not willing to tolerate a government that has the power to take them away. I would fight just as hard if the government banned the practice of Islam in this country. If enough people would join, I'd probably hit the trenches now to defend the sanctity of privacy and property, but it looks like most people don't give enough of a shit.

[MisterOJ]

Mr. OJ,

I like you, but your optimism and faith in the goodness of human nature are showing.

Probably. I tend to have faith in people.

Even the old "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" saying doesn't mean much to me because, well, outlaws are people too. And I tend to think that, for the most part, even outlaws will do the right thing most of the time.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

And I tend to think that, for the most part, even outlaws will do the right thing most of the time.

Uh....what?

[MisterOJ]

Uh....what?

Criminals are people too. I think, too often, "criminals" are portrayed as boogeymen who are going to come get you if you don't have a gun in your house.

[Lily Valley]

Probably. I tend to have faith in people.

Even the old "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" saying doesn't mean much to me because, well, outlaws are people too. And I tend to think that, for the most part, even outlaws will do the right thing most of the time.

An unpopular view sir, but don't worry. I'd like to abolish cars. I think that would fix the affordable mass transit problem in this country in about five minutes AND it would lower the death rate.

I read as young mom too many horror stories about kids and guns to keep one in the house. I think everyone can agree that if there were no guns there would be less successful suicides and less deaths resulting from violence. Pandora's box is open though. It cannot be closed.

Back on topic, the CDC's findings did surprise me. As did the small percentage of stolen firearms used in felonies. I wonder how many unregistered weapons are used. The majority of the guns I owned were unregistered. If stolen, I don't know how they would have been traced.

I do get very irritated with the gun control lobby at times. There are some very successful programs around to get excess firearms off the streets like voluntary firearm buyback programs. I've also heard of gun swaps where you can trade your firearm for something useful. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19990814&id=LL5OAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4vwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5532,1444276

These programs never have any funding. If violence prevention were really a priority, firearm buybacks would be an ongoing national program. Take this one from last year. They ran out of money in 2 hours.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/orleans/Gun-buy-back--151239755.html

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

I read as young mom too many horror stories about kids and guns to keep one in the house. I think everyone can agree that if there were no guns there would be less successful suicides and less deaths resulting from violence. Pandora's box is open though. It cannot be closed.

East Asia would like a word with you.

I wonder how many unregistered weapons are used. The majority of the guns I owned were unregistered. If stolen, I don't know how they would have been traced.

There is no federal gun registry, and most states do not require registration. So presumably, nearly all guns used, whether in a crime or not, are unregistered.

I do get very irritated with the gun control lobby at times. There are some very successful programs around to get excess firearms off the streets like voluntary firearm buyback programs. I've also heard of gun swaps where you can trade your firearm for something useful. http://news.google.c...pg=5532,1444276

Fire arm buyback programs are notoriously unsuccessful and really nothing more than a photo op for the police. Any more, they aren't even than because they mostly turn into open-air gun markets when private purchasers show up to try to pick up nice guns for cheap. What they mostly end up getting is old, busted, non-functional guns.

[Free Northman]

Criminals are people too. I think, too often, "criminals" are portrayed as boogeymen who are going to come get you if you don't have a gun in your house.

????

Er...What?

[Shryke]

Confiscating semi-autos is still confiscation. Cuomo was also talking about pistols with a 8 to 10 round magazines, only someone who was completely ignorant about guns would consider a pistol with an 8 to 10 round magazine an "assault rifle".

Most anti-gun organizations in the US have historically advocated handgun control and confiscation of handguns. They only switched to attacking rifles when they realized they couldn't get traction on pistols.

Unless you believe everyone weapon ever made should be freely available, you support some sort of ban/confiscation program. Those quotes aren't someone coming to take your guns, they are arguments over what is and is not a legally allowed weapon. It's nothing new or scary.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Shryke,

Most of the time bans grandfather in guns thatnare already owned. That way they avoid the "confiscation" issue.

[Lily Valley]

East Asia would like a word with you.

I'm the first to admit that all I know about East Asia is that it is the Eastern part of Asia and I'm not even certain about that. In my city, most homicides are firearm related.

http://www.wdsu.com/...az/-/index.html

The suicide comment was from the divergent statistics in the US for boys and girls. Girls twice as likely to attempt suicide, boys are better at succeeding. Boys use guns.

http://www.cdc.gov/v...th_suicide.html

There is no federal gun registry, and most states do not require registration. So presumably, nearly all guns used, whether in a crime or not, are unregistered.

I know that, this just made me curious about how many of the guns used really were stolen. I have some dumass friends who have had their unregistered guns stolen because they left them in the car or laying around the house in plain sight.

Fire arm buyback programs are notoriously unsuccessful and really nothing more than a photo op for the police. Any more, they aren't even than because they mostly turn into open-air gun markets when private purchasers show up to try to pick up nice guns for cheap. What they mostly end up getting is old, busted, non-functional guns.

In my city, only working firearms are eligible for buyback. With all the hand-wringing from the gun-control lobby for "the sake of the children", it seems like this type of program is better than nothing. 400 guns in 2 hours is pretty good, even if they're crappy guns. The teenagers running amok in my city would be delighted to get their hands on any of them. Even the reasonably law-abiding ones would like the opportunity to sell them for a little pocket money (the little idiots in my house included). It gets my vote for $10 mil over an inconclusive study by the CDC.

[Sci-2]

It gets my vote for $10 mil over an inconclusive study by the CDC.

Have we confirmed the $10M was spent solely on the 123 page document.

That seemed like a prelim survey with some initial research?

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

I'm the first to admit that all I know about East Asia is that it is the Eastern part of Asia and I'm not even certain about that. In my city, most homicides are firearm related.

http://www.wdsu.com/...az/-/index.html

The suicide comment was from the divergent statistics in the US for boys and girls. Girls twice as likely to attempt suicide, boys are better at succeeding. Boys use guns.

http://www.cdc.gov/v...th_suicide.html

East Asia has both the lowest firearm ownership - and the highest suicide rates in the world.

In my city, only working firearms are eligible for buyback. With all the hand-wringing from the gun-control lobby for "the sake of the children", it seems like this type of program is better than nothing. 400 guns in 2 hours is pretty good, even if they're crappy guns. The teenagers running amok in my city would be delighted to get their hands on any of them. Even the reasonably law-abiding ones would like the opportunity to sell them for a little pocket money (the little idiots in my house included). It gets my vote for $10 mil over an inconclusive study by the CDC.

The study actually concluded that gun buybacks are ineffective (as has every study done on them). Do you have any evidence that gun buybacks have had any effect on crime? Or is it simply that you want the government to do something.

Amusing anecdote - the LAPD appears to have "purchased" the same non-functional RPG at least 3 times in buy back programs. How they keep managing to lose it confounds the gods.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

The fact that you believe people love their guns so much that attempting to take them away would cause a civil war speaks volumes.

Uh....what?

Never mind -- he's on a roll.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Lily,

How are the buyback people confirming the weapons will fire prior to buying back the weapon?

[IheartTesla]

Have we confirmed the $10M was spent solely on the 123 page document.

That seemed like a prelim survey with some initial research?

The $10 million is being asked by the Administration to fund future research by the CDC and Congress will have it on their agenda in FY 2014 (the CDC initiative is one of the executive decisions made by the President of course). This is probably just a preliminary 'meta-analysis' of some of the literature out there.Previous research by the CDC on gun related issues was prevented because of some legislative mumbo jumbo I couldnt be arsed to read about.

As for this East Asia malarkey, I would caution against comparing apples in the US and oranges in China. One of the things the CDC should do is to make sure variables are controlled carefully before extrapolating results in one specific set of circumstances to another specific set of circumstances. This goes for any such attempt, be it for or against gun control.

[Lily Valley]

The study actually concluded that gun buybacks are ineffective (as has every study done on them). Do you have any evidence that gun buybacks have had any effect on crime? Or is it simply that you want the government to do something.

I can't see the link to the study you mention, but considering the teeny tiny "drop in the bucket" scope of the buybacks, this doesn't surprise me that they have no noticeable effect on lowering crime. What does surprise me is the lack of support and oversight these type of programs have from gun control lobbyists. I'd like to see if they had a bigger effect if they were done on a larger scale. A kid who would use his gun for armed robbery to get money might sell it instead. Safer.

Anyone person who has read the murder statistics in our city wants everyone to do everything. Gun control won't solve the problem. Frankly, I think legalizing dueling would save more lives by keeping bystanders out of the crossfire.

Amusing anecdote - the LAPD appears to have "purchased" the same non-functional RPG at least 3 times in buy back programs. How they keep managing to lose it confounds the gods.

Lol, I'm so glad our PD isn't the only one that gets caught doing stuff like this.

Lily,

How are the buyback people confirming the weapons will fire prior to buying back the weapon?

Good question. I don't know the answer to this. I'll add it to my list of annoying questions to ask NOPD.