Septa Lemore is?

[Taenqyrhae]

If nobody else can provide a definition of handsome that specifies an age range, I move we throw out the use of the word "handsome" as an indicator of age.

[Taenqyrhae]

In the books. Because irw bed of blood doesn't mean childbed.

Yes it does, GRRM did not invent the term.

CORRECTION: I will need more time to prove that, actually. I am 99% sure it is a real phrase used historically but there's so much ASOIAF noise on the internet it's hard to find cites stating otherwise.

But just because GRRM has only used the term handsome in reference to women of a certain age, it does not mean that in his world it definitely means that a woman is of a certain age - logic, again. He also never describes any non-white characters as handsome. Does that mean that in the ASOIAF universe that "handsome" means "middle aged white woman"?

[LordQorgyle]

Ashara

is described as having astonishing purple eyes and Tyrion doesn't

mention it when describing Lemore, omiting her most amazing feature

Every single character that mentions Ashara say she's dead so tell me in what do you base yourself to say that Ashara is Lemore, just one argument

[anonnyscouse]

Again; when handsome has been used for a woman in her 30s or younger?

Chataya is described by Tyrion as handsome, we only know of one daughter she had, Alayaya, who was still in her teens, it's very possible Chataya was in her 30s. Catelyn was described by Brienne (but still technically GRRM) as handsome, she was 35 when she died. Davos (technically GRRM) described Wynafryd Manderly (20 years old approx.) as handsome.

The only reference we have for Lemore's age is Tyrion's guess, simple as that.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

If nobody else can provide a definition of handsome that specifies an age range, I move we throw out the use of the word "handsome" as an indicator of age.

Sure! Now let's move bed of blood too.

Yes it does, GRRM did not invent the term.

I checked Oxford dictionary and it's not there.https://www.google.gr/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=bed%20of%20blood%20site%3Aoxforddictionaries.com

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Chataya is described by Tyrion as handsome, we only know of one daughter she had, Alayaya, who was still in her teens, it's very possible Chataya was in her 30s. Catelyn was described by Brienne (but still technically GRRM) as handsome, she was 35 when she died. Davos (technically GRRM) described Wynafryd Manderly (20 years old approx.) as handsome.

The only reference we have for Lemore's age is Tyrion's guess, simple as that.

According to http://asearchoficeandfire.com/not. I am too bored to look at the books for a matter that is more dead than Ned. So could you provide the quotes?

[SFDanny]

I hate to mention this, but in the scenes in which our precious, drunken, lecherous, dear Tyrion describes Septa Lemore the most, he isn't focused on her eyes. That he omits her eye color has more to do, I think, with Tyrion' s debauched state than anything else. Or, at least, it gives the author plausible deniability on why the character fails to mention what could be a feature that gives his mystery away.

[anonnyscouse]

According to http://asearchoficeandfire.com/not. I am too bored to look at the books for a matter that is more dead than Ned. So could you provide the quotes?

Chataya:

Chataya commiserated with him a moment, then excused herself and glided off. A handsome woman, Tyrion reflected as he watched her go. He had seldom seen such elegance and dignity in a whore.

Catelyn:

Her face, Brienne thought. Her face was so strong and handsome, her skin so smooth and soft. “Lady Catelyn?”

Wynyfryd:

“Words are wind,” said the young woman behind Lord Wyman’s high seat, the handsome one

with the long brown braid. “And men will lie to get their way, as any maid could tell you.”

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Wynyfryd:

Never seen it. I was wrong. The point still stands a ma who spend more than half his life being intimate with a woman would know what he was talking about. If he saids that a woman is past 40 and it would mean mid 40 and not in her 30 I would trust him more that someone who chose to forgets about the haunting purple eyes.

[Taenqyrhae]

I hate to mention this, but in the scenes in which our precious, drunken, lecherous, dear Tyrion describes Septa Lemore the most, he isn't focused on her eyes. That he omits her eye color has more to do, I think, with Tyrion' s debauched state than anything else. Or, at least, it gives the author plausible deniability on why the character fails to mention what could be a feature that gives his mystery away.

Thats what I believe Tyrion would blame it on "I wasn't looking at her eyes if you know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge", but since his description was internal he doesn't really have to explain leaving it out.

[Taenqyrhae]

Never seen it. I was wrong. The point still stands a ma who spend more than half his life being intimate with a woman would know what he was talking about. If he saids that a woman is past 40 and it would mean mid 40 and not in her 30 I would trust him more that someone who chose to forgets about the haunting purple eyes.

Chataya:

Catelyn:

Wynyfryd:

Thank you, hilarious how you were doubted until you provided the actual quotes. They will hang on to their fallacies as long as possible if the alternative is admitting they were wrong.

So, without "handsome" meaning "well past 40 and definitely not 35" in ASOIAFese, what other evidence do we have of Lemore's age?

[LordQorgyle]

Yeah and he never mention it in all the times he talks or thinks about her...and you haven't give me a respecte nse in what do you base yourself to say that Lemore is Ashara?

[Taenqyrhae]

Sure! Now let's move bed of blood too.

I checked Oxford dictionary and it's not there.https://www.google.gr/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=bed%20of%20blood%20site%3Aoxforddictionaries.com

Bed of blood has no relevance to this discussion, and I admitted in my post that I did not have proof that I was right. That's called admitting you are wrong or unsure, which is something you have a problem with until someone shoves proof in your face.

[Taenqyrhae]

Yeah and he never mention it in all the times he talks or thinks about her...and you haven't give me a respecte nse in what do you base yourself to say that Lemore is Ashara?

And Tyrion never says or thinks that Joffrey is a bastard in Game of Thrones, though we know in hindsight that he was very aware of that. That's a hell of a lot more important than pretty eyes, doncha think?

I never said that Lemore was definitely Ashara. I said you cannot rule out the possibility of her being Ashara as there is no evidence that conflicts with that hypothesis. The fact that Tyrion never said she has purple eyes means as much as the fact that Tyrion never said Joffrey was a bastard in the first book. Lemore is introduced in the last (so far) book of the series. It is entirely plausible based on the history of the series that Tyrion's POV chapters left out an important detail that Tyrion had knowledge of.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Bed of blood has no relevance to this discussion, and I admitted in my post that I did not have proof that I was right. That's called admitting you are wrong or unsure, which is something you have a problem with until someone shoves proof in your face.

Either my English died suddenly in the last couple of minutes or it doesn't make sense.

[LordQorgyle]

You said you believed she was Ashara, why do you say that?

[Taenqyrhae]

You said you believed she was Ashara, why do you say that?

There are plenty of "Lemore=Ashara" threads on this forum and I didn't create one of them. Why don't you read those and see why people suspect that? There are many hints that Lemore might be Ashara and so far the only evidence to the contrary has been proven wrong by annonyscouse.

Here's one. Ashara supposedly died by jumping into water from a great height. Her body was never recovered. Lemore is described as a strong swimmer and is the right age and appearance to be Ashara, and is associating with people who knew her in her former life.

[LordQorgyle]

What does one thing have to do with the other?

Tyrion is making a phisical description of a person that is in front of him and doesn't note her most amazing feature..curious..

What does a phisical description have to do with Joff being a bastard..

And the drunken Tyrion doesn't stand simply because connington didn't let him drink

[Taenqyrhae]

Either my English died suddenly in the last couple of minutes or it doesn't make sense.

Making grammatical errors when typing posts is something I admit to doing, but I just re-read that sentence and I don't see what part of it is a problem. Maybe if you diagram the sentence you can understand it better…I see a subject, verb, and object.

[LordQorgyle]

Go see what JonCon as written in the previous pages he debunked all you said about the eyes..

The Ashara equals lemore the most ridiculized theory in this foruns after mance is Rhaegar?