If Rhaegar won and Lyanna survived, would Dorne be threatened, and would they justified in feeling that way?

[Anath]

Yes, why does everyone want to believe that Elia was some sort of angel who would step aside for the sake of True Love and befriend her husband's mistress, not paying any mind to her own humiliation and the widespread opinion that she wasn't good enough?

We don't know whether she was a wonderful, wise person, after all. Why should she be OK with Rhaegar's treatment?

Once again, who were those several characters who knew Rhaegar well and praised him? And don't start with JonCon, Jaime had known Cersei all his life and we saw how accurate his opinion of her was.

[Batman]

Ticked off, no doubt. And you don't want to tick off Dorne. Because when they are pissed off they will.... wait. And plot long-winded schemes. That Fail. And then plot a few more. And then rush of and do something rash. And get more pissed off. And watch kids swim.

This should be the official Dorne bio

[DurararaFTW]

It'd be Stannis-Renly all over again, Aegon being the very isolated ruler of Dragonstone, Jon the endlessly better connected next in line with craploads of powerhungry lords pushing his claim. Civil War waiting to happen.

[Hippocras]

Yes, why does everyone want to believe that Elia was some sort of angel who would step aside for the sake of True Love and befriend her husband's mistress, not paying any mind to her own humiliation and the widespread opinion that she wasn't good enough?

We don't know whether she was a wonderful, wise person, after all. Why should she be OK with Rhaegar's treatment?

Once again, who were those several characters who knew Rhaegar well and praised him?

We don't know anything really. We just all have our opinions.

I accept yours, and have presented my thoughts on how I arrived at mine. We will see what the books say in the end.

Characters who say Rhaegar was a good man:

Barristan

Jorah

Cersei (I know, but still)

Jamie

Connington

Aemon

Even Ned never said anything against him. We know he kept important secrets.

[Anath]

We don't know anything really. We just all have our opinions.

I accept yours, and have presented my thoughts on how I arrived at mine. We will see what the books say in the end.

Characters who say Rhaegar was a good man:

Barristan

Jorah

Cersei (I know, but still)

Jamie

Connington

Aemon

Even Ned never said anything against him. We know he kept important secrets.

Barristan - knew him.

Jorah - might have met him, didn't know him all that well.

Cersei - 'nuff said

Jaime - knew him. Suffers from a severe case of hero worship where certain people are concerned.

Connington - for real?

Aemon - never met him.

Ned - "You avenged Lyanna" (by killing Rhaegar).

That makes two people who think highly of Rhaegar and can be reasonably trusted. And Barristan speaks of his shaping his life around the prophecy. Elia and Dorne have no reason to shape their lives around it, though. Magic had been gone from the world for a while and we saw that in the beginning of the series, there were few who believed it existed. So that leaves us with politics as their main consideration. Once again, why should anyone accept the Lyanna situation as anything else than a political bomb?

As to whether Dorne could do something about it - no, not really. Unless there are a few handy poisons involved.

[Hippocras]

Ned saying that he avenged Lyanna is true, and Robert did avenge her, but that says nothing about how he himself felt about Rhaegar. He does indicate that he thinks Robert was delusional when it came to Targaryens. He know way more than he ever says, holding back deep secrets about the war. But he never once has a specific negative word to say or thought about Rhaegar. That seems to me like a really glaring omission that indicates he does not agree with Robert at all, but is keeping his thoughts to himself so as not to contradict the King.

For Ned the war was a war against Aerys, not Rhaegar.

[Wmarshal]

Ned saying that he avenged Lyanna is true, and Robert did avenge her, but that says nothing about how he himself felt about Rhaegar. He does indicate that he thinks Robert was delusional when it came to Targaryens. He know way more than he ever says, holding back deep secrets about the war. But he never once has a specific negative word to say or thought about Rhaegar. That seems to me like a really glaring omission that indicates he does not agree with Robert at all, but is keeping his thoughts to himself so as not to contradict the King.

For Ned the war was a war against Aerys, not Rhaegar.

You do realize Ned never says anything bad about Aerys either, right?

[Hippocras]

You do realize Ned never says anything bad about Aerys either, right?

You're sure about that? I remember differently, but have not looked for evidence on this issue. I am doing an LF sociopath evidence review, but will try to keep my eyes open for Ned's thoughts on Aerys.

Ned aside though, I am pretty sure no one at all makes the claim Aerys was a great guy.

[joluoto2]

If Rhaegar won and married Lyanna, they'd one day find their bed filled with scorpions.

[Anath]

You do realize Ned never says anything bad about Aerys either, right?

He did mention something about the Mad King doing a mad thing or something like that.

It doesn't count as opinion in my book. It was a fact, not a view of Ned's. Aerys was certifiable. Pity he wasn't certified.

[DaeronDrumm]

If Rhaegar takes Lyanna as a wife rather than a paramour or her children are legitimized, Lyanna and Jon (I'd reckon they probably name him Viserys) most likely die of a disease somewhere during the first two years of the kid's life. The Dornish are generally very fond of settling these types of scores through poison.

[Wmarshal]

He did mention something about the Mad King doing a mad thing or something like that.

It doesn't count as opinion in my book. It was a fact, not a view of Ned's. Aerys was certifiable. Pity he wasn't certified.

He never mentions this, as he never mentions anything positive about Rhaegar.

[Hippocras]

He never mentions this, as he never mentions anything positive about Rhaegar.

As far as I am concerned it is an irrelevant point because NOONE says Aerys was a good man.

[C0bR]

Barristan - knew him.

Jorah - might have met him, didn't know him all that well.

Cersei - 'nuff said

Jaime - knew him. Suffers from a severe case of hero worship where certain people are concerned.

Connington - for real?

Aemon - never met him.

Ned - "You avenged Lyanna" (by killing Rhaegar).

That makes two people who think highly of Rhaegar and can be reasonably trusted. And Barristan speaks of his shaping his life around the prophecy. Elia and Dorne have no reason to shape their lives around it, though. Magic had been gone from the world for a while and we saw that in the beginning of the series, there were few who believed it existed. So that leaves us with politics as their main consideration. Once again, why should anyone accept the Lyanna situation as anything else than a political bomb?

As to whether Dorne could do something about it - no, not really. Unless there are a few handy poisons involved.

Also Jaime spent maybe a year in his presence at most, more likely less. And even then, I don't know why people say that he had any admiration for Rhaegar. The only thing he ever mentions about him is his iron tone. That's even less of a praise than Ned's infamous brothels remark. Jaime's remorse belongs to the children.

[DurararaFTW]

As far as I am concerned it is an irrelevant point because NOONE says Aerys was a good man.

Not a good man, perhaps but Jon Connington definitely didn t remember him as The Mad King. He feel he legit failed Aerys trust and he was therefore to blame because otherwise things would be fine rather then shrug off being at the receiving end of the insane scorn of a guy he served because of association to Rhaegar.

[Wmarshal]

As far as I am concerned it is an irrelevant point because NOONE says Aerys was a good man.

Then we shouldn't see Ned's say nothing bad about him point irreverent.

[Anath]

Anyway, even if Rhaegar got to explain his reasoning, I really can't see Dorne trusting him or the Starks, no matter when he did the explaining. Magic has been gone from the world - at least that was what almost everyone believed. Politics dictated that Lyanna and her children were a threat.

As to Rhaegar's character, I do think he was a good man at heart. Alas, he was also one who had been fed - and feeding himself - on a steady diet of just how extraordinary he was, leading to him taking the world into account and trivial things like daily life and people came a distant second. Which conveniently coincided with his love for Lyanna - now, he had his perfect excuse to ignore the rest of the world. He was saving it, after all!

[Hippocras]

Anyway, even if Rhaegar got to explain his reasoning, I really can't see Dorne trusting him or the Starks, no matter when he did the explaining. Magic has been gone from the world - at least that was what almost everyone believed. Politics dictated that Lyanna and her children were a threat.

As to Rhaegar's character, I do think he was a good man at heart. Alas, he was also one who had been fed - and feeding himself - on a steady diet of just how extraordinary he was, leading to him taking the world into account and trivial things like daily life and people came a distant second. Which conveniently coincided with his love for Lyanna - now, he had his perfect excuse to ignore the rest of the world. He was saving it, after all!

This is true enough. It all depends on how much Elia knew and how she felt about it. Because while they would not believe Rhaegar on the issue, I do think Dorne would have believed her.

[Wmarshal]

There is no reason for Elia to be okay with this plan. Half Brothers warring with each other or stealing from each other or their children is the Targ history book. As to the prophecy, he has been proven wrong already and Targs dying and getting prophecies wrong outweighs the time they are right about things.

[mambru]

Barristan - knew him.

I don't think we can trust Barristan to speak objectively about the faults of ANY of the Targaryen family - especially to a Targaryen like Dany. He's had a lifetime of being respectful (if not obsequious) to one ruler or another, and it shows in how he talked to Dany about Aerys. He practically herniated himself in straining to emphasize all Aerys' good points and downplaying his faults. I can't see why we would assume his portrait of Rhaegar is any more objective.

Besides, there's another time he thinks about Rhaegar, less positively. In ADWD, he thinks quite bitterly to himself that IF ONLY he'd kicked Rhaegar's ass during the Tourney at Harrenhal, Rhaegar would never have crowned Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty - and then MAYBE the whole of Robert's Rebellion and the fall of the House of Targaryen would never have happened. That means that Barristan holds Rhaegar responsible for those disasters - which indicates he has a far more ambivalent and negative view of Rhaegar than he ever told Dany.