The only proof she's not mad

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Mad? No (not yet)

paranoid?

traumatized?

arrogant and ignorant?

entitled?

naive and foolish?

yes

And those things can grew into madness, just as it was in the case of Aerys. I am not saying they will, but they can.

Isn't paranoid synonym to mad?

[Dany Girl]

I'll repeat once because you are getting angry and this doesn't seem to be doing much good. All the lords are entitled. That is how their system works, through titles. Tyrion throws around the name Lannister like it is a football. But Lannister is a powerful name in Westeros. When he throws it around, it carries weight. He uses his family name in a practical way. He knows there are limits to which the name serves though. When Viserys is screaming about him being a Targaryen in the middle of the Dothraki sea, well, that is different. He is a stranger in a strange land, but he acts like he is honoring them with his presence. He isn't crazy, he simply feels like he is owed the Iron Throne, and it is in everyone's interests to follow his desires. He is of the dragons dontchaknow. No matter that it is a fallen house in a faraway land and he is but a beggar at the feast. He deserves more, and he will scream loudly until he gets it. Joffrey is another who feel he deserves his whims to be met. He actually has the benefit of having a crown already, but he isn't practical with how he uses his titles.

Daenerys goes beyond Nymeria, Robert, Viserys, and even Aegon. She is a conqueror, true as those were or wish to have been. But none of those people tried to end feudalism in Westeros. They couldn't even begin to grasp the complexities of even trying to do that. Because it took more than a name and a sword (or even dragons) to change society like that. Robert didn't show up saying, "well, this has been fun, but we are taking heredity a little too far, time to break up the great estates and allow direct elections for our rulers. Why you ask? Because I am Robert, of House Baratheon, and I may be only a young man and do not understand the ways of the world, but this is the right thing to do and it shall be done. Stags are not afraid. I will see it done, with antlers and blood." Certainly it would be good if feudalism ended, but it would be delusional to believe you could end 8000 years of society simply because it is noble and you are a Baratheon. That is exactly what Dany is doing. Worse, it isn't like she is from Slavery Bay, she is from their archenemy, old Valyria. She is naive to think she could do it, she is delusional because she thinks the fact that she is a dragon allows her the right to do it.

As for the inferno, she was committed before she ever stepped foot into the blaze. Once in, she obviously felt the heat, her clothes burned, she was seeing visions in the flames, her hair obviously burned, her breasts were pouring milk (and maybe blood?, I can't remember). The commitment before she ever tried it was the madness. Believing the eggs needed a stronger fire was sane. Believing she had to be in the fire was madness. She wasn't planning to see how she would take to the inferno, it wasnt a trial run or something. She felt she had to be there, and everything in that chapter leads us and those around her to believe she would be fine. But inside her own head we never get a glimpse of a vision. It feels completely impulsive, and I think it almost certainly was.

I'm not mad, you just don't seem to understand the character at all and every single thing you have against her are things others have done in the past. Yes, Visaerys was a giant entitled douche who expected to show up in Westeros and have everyone bend knee to him solely because he's a Targ. Dany knows that won't happen, therefore if she wants the crown she believes belongs to her she'll have t9 fight for it and prove herself, that is why she's building an army.

And somebody abolished slavery in Westeros at some point I assume because it's now illegal. I doubt it started out that way. So as I said, her motives are pure, she believes slavery is wrong and wants it to stop. Her process was flawed (big time) because she's essentially a kid and has never had anybody teach her the proper way to rule or to effect change. She believed that by freeing the slaves of Astapor and putting together a ruling council that they would be fine, that was naive. She soon learns how badly that went hence she stays in Meereen to make sure it doesn't happen again. This also doesn't go well, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

And yes, this is exactly the same as when Aegon and his sisters take Westeros. Or do you believe they set down with dragons and everyone was like, "oh, ok, guess this dude is king now. All hail Dragon King!" Um, no. There were wars fought and it took years to get everyone to bend knee to them. There was slaughter and mayham for years before general peace was achieved. Same with Nymeria taking Dorne in reality. And again with Robert. Robert's rebellion lasted a few years, and still had uprisings after. The only reason that it went as well and easy as it did is because Aerys was mad and killing his Lords. Still therewere many that were steadfastly loyal to Aerys.

Conquering is messy buisness and doesn't happen over night. And no one has the inherent "right" to conquer, just the means to do so, which grants you the "right" to do so. Dragons are a tool that helps accomplish the task. Dany has never stood around declaring "I'm Targareyn, I deserve this" she's only said that it's her family's kingdom and therefore her kingdom and she's going to take what's hers with fire and blood. This means she's expecting a fight. That's the biggest difference between her and Visaerys.

[Steve Moss II]

Every time I come onto these boards I feel like I have to choose whether Dany is bat-shit insane or the messiah.

She's neither.

She's both.

[C0bR]

Isn't paranoid synonym to mad?

Depends on a level of it.

[The Wrong Tree]

l think that a lot people on here don't understand what "mad" means. I'm going to assume that the type of mad we are talking about is schizophrenia. Schizophrenia- a long-term mental disorder of a type involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings, withdrawal from reality and personal relationships into fantasy and delusion, and a sense of mental fragmentation.

Dany is not full blown mad, nor is she "paranoid". Paranoia is being worried about things that are not actually happening. But think of the positition Dany is in, she is trying to rule and change an entire nation, there are people making threats to her life. She is not imagining danger- she actually is in danger. Anyone who is using force to make changes also creates enemies and when you have enemies you have to stay one step ahead of them or you could lose your life. Thus, she is not paranoid, she is worrying about her own saftey.

As for people who are saying that Quaithe is a delusion (which I don't agree with) they should understand that high levels of stress can cause delusions. Also, chronic stress can lead to schizophrenia. I feel that this is the reason that so many Targerayeans end up being "mad". They are live in a permanently high stress situation (trying to hold the realm together). I can't remember who said it but at one point in the books someone was describing Aerys and said that in the beginning he was a good leader but as time progressed he got worse and worse. This would tie in with stress leading to madness. Also, in-bred targareyans have a predisposition for being mad, so they are genetically more prone to insanity. I think it is safe to say that Dany is not currently insane, but we have to acknowledge the fact that she could very well become mad.

But I really don't think that Quaithe is a hallucination. We already know that magic in the world became more pronounced when dany's dragons were hatched. I don't know if the magic is from them or they came from higher levels of magic. But when Tyrion was talking to the wildfyre makers (i can't remember their names), one of them said that they were able to make more recently because something had changed in the world. So, with that being said, is it really so hard to believe that Quaithe, a woman who we know nothing about, is able to use magic to appear only to Dany?

I don't think that her trying to abolish slavery makes her insane. She just started doing somethiing without a plan . But to say that trying to make a change in the world is equivalent to insanity does not make sense. Think of it this way, had she planned better and actually had a strategy for saving the slaves and solved the problem, would you be saying that she was insane? No, because she succeeded. But because she is causing more issues instead of solving one, people are saying she's mad, which I don't agree with. Failure does not mean that you are insane.

[JeepCSC]

I don't think what Dany is doing in Mereen is conquering per se. Not like Nymeria or Aegon or Robert ever did. Again, she is conquering AND restructuring ten thousand years of society from the bottom up. It is not the first part I think she is delusional on, no more than your average conqueror. Aegon conquered and basically just placed himself on top of the society already established. Dany didn't simply conquer Slavery Bay, she is trying to do so much more. And no she isn't doing a good job, but I think that is because she thought through sheer force of personality, dragons, and her dragon blood, she could turn water into wine. I will admit I am perplexed what Dany's end game in Mereen is. But whatever it is, I think she has botched it not least of which because she couldn't comprehend the task at hand nor the limitations of "Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, the Unburnt, Mother of Dragons, khaleesi to Drogo's riders, and queen of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros.”

[Dany Girl]

I don't think what Dany is doing in Mereen is conquering per se. Not like Nymeria or Aegon or Robert ever did. Again, she is conquering AND restructuring ten thousand years of society from the bottom up. It is not the first part I think she is delusional on, no more than your average conqueror. Aegon conquered and basically just placed himself on top of the society already established. Dany didn't simply conquer Slavery Bay, she is trying to do so much more. And no she isn't doing a good job, but I think that is because she thought through sheer force of personality, dragons, and her dragon blood, she could turn water into wine. I will admit I am perplexed what Dany's end game in Mereen is. But whatever it is, I think she has botched it not least of which because she couldn't comprehend the task at hand nor the limitations of "Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, the Unburnt, Mother of Dragons, khaleesi to Drogo's riders, and queen of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros.”

I don't get how you think they're different forms of conquering. Westeros 300 years ago was made up of 7 different kingdoms ruled by 7 different kings. These kingdoms were at war all the time. Aegon and his sisters came in, declared themselves rules, and forced everyone to get along like some creepy version of Barney or something. They forced their laws and customs upon the people and openly waged war on them with their giant hulking dragons that the people had no defense against (see: Harrenhall, stone melted like a freaking candle). Then you have Dany coming in with significantly smaller dragons that are barely a threat half the time, she can only ride one anyways. She's doing the exact same thing her forefathers did, imposing her laws and beliefs on people that don't want her. I don't have add specifics of Nymeria's conquest of Dorne, but I think it's safe to say it wasn't butterflies and rainbows and people skipping through the blood orange groves. Nymeria came from a significantly different society than the Dorne of that time, Aegon came from a significantly different society than the 7 kingdoms at that time. I see zero difference in what Dany is doing in Meereen than what they did outside they were more successful than she currently is. But conquests don't happen over night, there is always back fighting and issues. Dany is unlike the others as she has almost no political hostory. Nymeria was already Queen, Aegon seems to have been a leader as well possibly. Dany does have the ability to inspire loyalty and trust in her followers though, so she's not completely hopeless or a lost cause. She's just been foolish at times, and immature at times, but she can come around and be a bad ass again.

[echidna]

There is some magic about her, just like the Stark children. Her magic however is completely undefined as for yet.

I am one of the few ones who think she is immune against flames (not heat), flames. No-one yet has given me a logical reason why Dany's hair was in flames in the Pit and yet no burns to her head, face and scalp despite having a flamethrower (Drogon) aimed at her.

Anyhow she is not mad, I recently re-read ADWD with the purpose of looking out for any hints of madness. Other than tripping out on some freaky berries in the last chapter, I cant see any evidence for it.

Dany's body is attuned to fire and therefore she can interact with fire like you or I interact with water, except that she had a natural body-surface barrier which stops her burning. Like a natural wet suit. But it doesn't stop her hair being 'soaked' by fire. That's my theory

[Old-Growth]

" I don't get how you think they're different forms of conquering. Westeros 300 years ago was made up of 7 different kingdoms ruled by 7 different kings. These kingdoms were at war all the time. Aegon and his sisters came in, declared themselves rulers, and forced everyone to get along like some creepy version of Barney or something. They forced their laws and customs upon the people and openly waged war on them with their giant hulking dragons that the people had no defense against (see: Harrenhall, stone melted like a freaking candle)."

One reason why is that the Targaryens had been living just offshore of Westeros for a century, had adopted the faith of the seven, given up slavery, &c. Their ways were more similar to those of the rest of Westeros by the time Aegon launched his invasion, I suspect, than they were to the customs of Valyria that had been left behind a century before.

[Old-Growth]

" But I really don't think that Quaithe is a hallucination. We already know that magic in the world became more pronounced when dany's dragons were hatched. I don't know if the magic is from them or they came from higher levels of magic. But when Tyrion was talking to the wildfyre makers (i can't remember their names), one of them said that they were able to make more recently because something had changed in the world. So, with that being said, is it really so hard to believe that Quaithe, a woman who we know nothing about, is able to use magic to appear only to Dany?"

"The glass candles are burning" as Quaithe tells her in Meereen. At the end of AFfC we saw Archmaester Marwyn using one and were explicitly told that such could be used to appear to someone at a great distance or in their dreams. Now where Quaithe came by an obsidian candle and learned how to use it, we do not know, but that is most likely the means she is using to appear to Dany, either from Quarth or perhaps from the shadowlands.

[Brownwind]

I Always thought that Quaithe was a shadowbinder who appeared to Dany using a variant of shadow baby magic

Half the Targs have Prophetic Dreams and add to that The Hotu Visions, leads me to think Dany's "Madness" is just trying to make sense of all she's beeen told There is no Taint in Her

[Harpo of House Trashcan]

.

instinctively in the pit how to cow Drogon

it doesn't take a targaryen to know how to use a whip. just saying

[Lord of Cheese]

I think she is starting to go a little nuts. I am not sure which side of the fence she will fall on.

Anybody who had read Danny chapters in Dance would think she is kinda losing touch with reality.

Going out to meet people with bloody flux... Lets not forget her last chapter... that internal dialogue was a little bizarre.

[Ser Smoke-A-Lot]

Dany is a mostly incompetent ruler but that doesn't mean she's mad or insane or whatever. I honestly never got that vibe from her.

[fangirl000]

She is mad. Freeing slave cities with absolutely no transition besides "i am your mother ill kill whoever enslaves you". I lost respect for Dany a long time ago. Only reason i cared to her her chapters were for Jorah, and now selmy.

That's not insanity, that's just very poor planning. She's an idealistic 15 year old girl who happens to have enough power to destroy whatever she considers unjust. She's also still grieving the death of of her child, so the fact that the slave owners in Astapor killed thousands of children as grist for the mill that created the Unsullied was going to seem particularly unjust to her.

[SeanF]

I think she is starting to go a little nuts. I am not sure which side of the fence she will fall on.

Anybody who had read Danny chapters in Dance would think she is kinda losing touch with reality.

Going out to meet people with bloody flux... Lets not forget her last chapter... that internal dialogue was a little bizarre.

I think it's more likely she's suffering the effects of sunstroke, hunger, thirst, and poisoning in her last chapter, than she's suffering from schizophrenia.

[Greymoon]

Dany is not mad.

Her success got to her head. She's freed people, and yes the way she went about it was naive, but it worked and they loved her...for a time. She had nothing when her story arc began. Remember she was a 13 year old girl, shy and mentally abused by her brother.

Then she got sold to Khal Drogo, and though she did eventually fall in love with Drogo, she fell victim to a very serious 'going native' syndrome...Happens to anthropologist in the field – it’s when you forsake all of the values you grew up with, and literally absorb the foreign culture. Dany did that...or maybe she found herself with Drogo actually. Then when her husband died, she had a bit of a panic attack, and a strange need to walk into a fire.

She'd just lost her son and husband, give her a break.

On another note, she'd also seen her brother murdered in front of her own eyes...an event that in itself was probably traumatic, even though she does her best to move on...Still her beloved husband did the deed. Maybe she's victim of a Stockholm syndrome, in regards to both Viserys and Drogo...anyway...after that, after losing everything, she literally gets propelled to the top.

Her desire to end slavery is understandable; she might consider herself to have been shackled by chains for the greater part of her life. Now she’s ‘free’ and she strives in it...Then, of course she gets involved with a horrible sexist man. I think that's a sign that Viserys and Drogo did a number on her, and she hasn't had time to really digest her past- It doesn't affect her capacity to rule or to decide for others, but it affects the way she perceives herself...Jorah with his stupid infatuation does not help at all.

Also, she has increasingly identified herself as a Dragon (the human kind! like Aegon; a conqueror), an imagery that is corroborated by Barristan and Jorah, and her own conquests. I’d say, it all went to her head, she lost touch with reality a bit, yes, but she’s not mad. She just forgets that she’s not in fact invincible, hence, the ridding out among victims of the pale mare flue.

But it’s not like we aren’t all familiar with the “it always happens to others” and “can’t happen to me” sentiment...

Anyway, she meets up with a Khalasaar again, and I've read that particular scene as a "back to the roots" moment for Dany. Especially with her bleeding (possible miscarriage) and her hair burning away again, it's like a rewind. She's finally coming back down to earth after the 'Free the Slaves' power trip.

So basically, I don't think she is mad at all....I think she's touched in the head exactly as much as anyone else in the world, and considering what she's gone through, that's the least I’d expect. It's easy to accuse her of madness of course, because she is a Targaryen...But Joeffrey was a Lannister, and he in my humble opinion, was quite mad...and of course Cersei is well on her way, too.

And I agree with the thirst, hunger, sunstroke and poisoning being responsible for her temporary madness at the end of Dance. Who wouldn't be mad?

[Samwell Gamgi]

Where is the proof that she is mad?

Not mad, perhaps but even she questions her own sanity.

She also admits to herself that she is potentially a villain:

"We are not so different, Daario and I. We are both monsters." -ADWD

[SeanF]

Not mad, perhaps but even she questions her own sanity.

She also admits to herself that she is potentially a villain:

"We are not so different, Daario and I. We are both monsters." -ADWD

I think her paradox is that she wants to be good and kind; but her ambitions will require the deaths of thousands, in order to be fulfilled.

I think that by the end of ADWD, she's become reconciled to that fact.

[Samwell Gamgi]

The moment she decided to stay in Meereen it was the beginning of the end of her sanity if it hadn't already started. Chaining up your biggest asset just because they supposedly ate one child was incredibly stupid. Holding court does not make her a good ruler. She was far more interested in Darrio anyway! The fact that she has almost completely ignored her dragons is also sheer stupidity! How does she expect to conquer anything if she can't control her WMD!! Maybe she's not insane, but she's incredibly stupid alright!

100% agreed. It's why I felt so bad for her in ADWD. She means well but is so incapable and it's nearly embarrassing. Young Grif's accomplishments with almost no resources make her look even worse.