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Suzanna Stormborn

What happened to make Aerys lose respect for Tywin around 270-275AL?

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He wasnt attracted, it was described as them being attracted to tyrion, and in another chapter with arya it was described that they didnt like her.

Tyrion says the dragon skulls "liked the fire, he sensed". It wasn't Tyriom they liked, it was the fire on the torch he was carrying.

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I just think it would be better of the son Tywin never wanted was the one who carried on the Lannister line and succeed him in being The Lord of Casterly Rock.

If Aerys' is his father, I'd be disapointed because that way Tyrion can't kick his father in his ass (figuratively) and become what his father never wanted to be.

LOL yeah i get you. Tywin deserves some recompense for his jerky life.

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Tyrion says the dragon skulls "liked the fire, he sensed". It wasn't Tyriom they liked, it was the fire on the torch he was carrying.

Tyrion GOT---‘Tyrion had a morbid fascination with dragons. When he had first come to KL for his sisters wedding to Robert Baratheon, he had made it a point to check out the dragon skulls that had hung on the walls of the Targaryen's throne room. King Robert had replaced them with banners and tapestries, but Tyrion had persisted until he found the skulls in the dank cellar where they had been stored.’

‘He had expected to find them impressive, perhaps even frightening. He had not thought to find them beautiful. yet they were. As black as onyx, polished smooth, so the bone seemed to shimmer in the light of his torch. They liked the fire, he sensed. He'd thrust the torch into the mouth of one of the larger skulls and made the shadows leap and dance on the wall behind him. The teeth were long, curving knives of black diamond. The flame of the torch was nothing to them; they had bathed in the heat of far greater fires. When he had moved away, Tyrion could have sworn that the beast's empty eye sockets had watched him go..............From there the skulls ranged upward in size to the 3 great monsters of song and story, the dragons that Aegon Targaryen and his sisters had unleashed on the 7 kingdoms of old. The singers had given them the names of gods; Balerion, Meraxes, Vhagar. Tyrion had stood between their gaping jaws, wordless and awed. You could have ridden a horse down Vhaghar's gullet, although you would not have ridden it out again.........Tyrion stood in the dank cellar a long time, staring at Balerion's huge, empty-eyed skull until his torch burned low, trying to grasp the size of the living animal, to imagine how it must have looked when it spread its great black wings and swept across the skies, breathing fire.’

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The entire world in ASOIAF are attracted to dragons, does not all of Essos marvel at Daenerys'? They are beasts who breath fire who brought Westeros to it's knees it's perfectly reasonably that anyone should marvel at the skulls. Unless it's greendreams, dreams are a fickle indicator of thing that were/things that are in Westeros.

It's more than just dragons. He used to stare at flames for hours as a kid. His hair is a paler color than Cersei, Jaime, and Tywin. Also, Targaryen dreams do have prophetic importance, and Tyrion dreaming of riding a dragon could have deeper meaning than simply all people are attracted to dragons (outside of the fact that Martin doesn't mention anyone else dreaming for dragons besides Dany of course).

Still, I disagree for the simple reason that it would spoil so much of the relationship between Tyrion and his father. As Genna Lannister told Jamie, Tyrion was his father's son.

My response to this is wouldn't the same thing be true for Jon Snow if / when R+L=J is revealed?

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It's more than just dragons. He used to stare at flames for hours as a kid. His hair is a paler color than Cersei, Jaime, and Tywin. Also, Targaryen dreams do have prophetic importance, and Tyrion dreaming of riding a dragon could have deeper meaning than simply all people are attracted to dragons (outside of the fact that Martin doesn't mention anyone else dreaming for dragons besides Dany of course).

My response to this is wouldn't the same thing be true for Jon Snow if / when R+L=J is revealed?

IKR it would be the same as Jon, ruins the fact that he is Ned's son, as people are saying of Tyrion.

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Snip

Sorry must of misread it.

I know the passage, I've got AGOT by me right now. I read that chapter yesterday in a reread.

I didn't think that the dragons were attracted to Tyrion, but to the fire. The reason he's not scared of the, like Arya, is because he went looking for them himself and wanted to find them, unlike Arya who stumbles on them.

Also Arya is frightened, partly, because there's not much light, where as Tyrion has a light,mans the fact he's older than Arya.

That scene for me, doesn't prove Tyrion is a Targ, but just that he's intrigued by them, and might possibly hint at Tyrion helping Dany with her dragons.

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Hey I thought this was a good OP - you've written a timeline that is good summary. I think though what you are missing is when did Joanna leave court? I think she left KL before Tywin and lived in CR for years but I don't have my books. (In fact I think Cersei and Jaime were caught the first time by Joanna at CR when they were very young.) And I'm not sure where Tyrion was born, CR right? How long had Joanna been there before Tyrion was born.

I actually think that Joanna being around court for 10 years (?) and as a companion to Queen Rhella points more to Cersei and Jaime not being Tywin's kids. If Joanna was at KL when Tywin was Hand then this opens the possibility of C&J are Aerys kids not Tyrion.

If Joanna is the best part of Tywin, then if she was raped by the King, my guess is she would never have told Tywin because Tywin wasn't the type of man you anger. She knew that a war would start if Tywin ever found this out. Jaime's dream hints towards his mother having a secret about her children, namely Jaime and Cersei.

Timeline mentions the following:

Before 259AL - Joanna was companion of Princess Rhella; Prince Aerys has an attraction to Joanna Lannister

259AL - Aerys and Rhella married (forced marriage, no love between them)

262AL - Aerys becomes King, Tywin becomes Hand thereafter

266AL - Cersei and Jaime are born

270AL - Problems begin for Aerys and Tywin (4 years before Tyrion was born)

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It's more than just dragons. He used to stare at flames for hours as a kid. His hair is a paler color than Cersei, Jaime, and Tywin. Also, Targaryen dreams do have prophetic importance, and Tyrion dreaming of riding a dragon could have deeper meaning than simply all people are attracted to dragons (outside of the fact that Martin doesn't mention anyone else dreaming for dragons besides Dany of course).

My response to this is wouldn't the same thing be true for Jon Snow if / when R+L=J is revealed?

Jon Snow never has a dragon dream. (when I say dragon dream, I mean a dream invoIving the animal called a dragon, not specifically the prophetic dreams) I have always wondered about this, I mean why did Jon never have any of the dreams? Maybe GRRM just thought it was too obvious. When a whole lot of other Targ's did. This is what I have on Dragon dreams;

There are a lot of mentioning of Dragon Dreams, not prophetic dreams, just a dream with a dragon in it. They come from a lot of the Targaryens we have met. Also in Dunk & Egg there are a lot of passages about Dragon Dreams. Absolutely the only people that have them in any of the books are Targaryens. No one else does and that is a fact. This is what Wiki says about Dragon Dreams.

‘Dragon dreams affect those with the blood of the dragon, who are known to have premonition-like dream ability - they are no ordinary dreams. They often involve dragons but not always.

Dragon dreams appear to have haunted those with the blood of the dragon throughout the generations; some more than others.

The Targaryens had these dreams as well as the Blackfyres’.--Wiki about Dragon dreams

Also it is interesting that the only people we get descriptions of Dragon dreams from are Targaryens that were born after the last dragons died, meaning none of the people having these dreams have ever actually seen a dragon in real life, the closest they have ever come is seeing the skulls in the throne room or a painting/drawing in a book. The only exceptions of this are the Dragon Dreams Dany has after her dragons are born. But she does have Dragon Dreams before hatching her dragons, so she is another example to back my theory. Of course you know where I am going with this……the ONLY person who ever mentions having had a Dragon Dream other than a known Targaryen is of course Tyrion Lannister. And it is not like we never hear about non-Targaryen dreams, several POV’s in the books have dreams, but none except the Targaryen’s involve Dragons at all. Even in D&E, Dunk has several dreams and although he is chasing dragon eggs and around a lot of Targaryens throughout his stories, he never once dreams of a DRAGON. I am not claiming any of these dreams are prophetic. All I am pointing out is that his character dreams of dragons just like the Targaryens. And to my knowledge no one except Targaryens ever mention dreams involving dragons of any kind, except Teora Toland form the Arianne gift chapter. It is hinted her family has had Targaryen’s in it, but it is not confirmed one way or the other who she descends from, so it is a grey area for this argument. Just want to cover my bases.

Dany GOT-----"The Dragon has three heads, there must be one more". --Her vision of Rhaegar in the HOTU

Dany GOT Dreaming---“Viserys was hitting her, hurting her. She was naked, clumsy with fear. She ran from him, but her body seemed thick and ungainly. He struck her again. She stumbled and fell. He struck her again. She stumbled and fell. “You woke the dragon,” he screamed as he kicked her. “You woke the dragon, you woke the dragon.” Her thighs were slick with blood.

She closed her eyes and whimpered. As if in answer, there was a hideous ripping sound and the crackling of some great fire. When she looked again Viserys was gone, great columns of flame rose all around, and in the midst of them was the dragon. It turned its great head slowly. When its molten eyes found hers, she woke, shaking and covered with a fine sweat.--

Dany GOT before her wedding--Newly wedded, when she is despairing in the Dothraki Sea, and feeling that she cannot go on, she dreams of a black dragon again.

“There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.”

SOS Dany---The night before the sack of Astapor on the Balerion Daenerys has what may be a prophetic dream:

That night she dreamt she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.[1]

Sam FfC, Maester Aemon tells Samwell Tarly:

“I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and their dreams killed them, every one. Aemon to Sam

Aemon has 3 brothers, Aegon V, Dareon Targaryen and Aerion Targaryen

From 'The Hedge Knight'

“Across the room, the lordling raised his head from the wine puddle. His face had a sallow, unhealthy cast to it beneath a rat's nest of sandy brown hair, and blonde stubble crusted his chin. He rubbed his mouth, blinked at dunk, and said, "I dreamed of you." His hand trembled as he pointed his finger. "you stay away from me, do you hear? You stay well away"--

Dareon Targaryen at the inn talking to Dunk

The Hedge Knight--"I dreamed of you," said the prince.

"You said that at the inn."

"Did I? Well it's so. My dreams aren't like yours, Ser Duncan. Mine are true. They frighten me. I dreamed of you and a dead dragon, you see. A great beast, huge, with wings so large they could cover this meadow. It had fallen on top of you, but you were alive and the dragon was dead."

"Did I kill it?"

"That I could not say, but you were there, and so was the dragon. We were the masters of dragons once, we Targaryens. Now they are all gone but we remain........"—Dareon Targaryen and Dunk

List of Characters who are known to have Dragon Dreams.

Dany, Maester Aemon, Rhaegar Tagrayen, Dareon Targaryen, Dameon Balckfyre, Aerion Targaryen, Teora Toland and Aegon V and Bloodraven says ‘there have always been Targaryens who dreamed of things to come.’ In reference to Dragon dreams. And then there is Tyrion Lannister having the dreams in the first section of GOT, which as we all know is full of hints for future storylines for a lot of characters, especially R+L=J. So why can’t there be small hints to A+J=T???

D&E The Mystery Knight

“A dragon would. The prince insists the egg will hatch. He dreamed it, just as he once dreamed his brother’s dead. A living dragon will win us all the swords that we would want.”---About Dameon Blackfyre (the prince)

“I’m not stupid ser.” Egg lowered his voice. “Someday the dragons will return. My brother Dareon dreamed of it, and King Aerys read it in a prophecy. Maybe it will be my egg that hatches. That would be splendid.”—Aegon V talking to Dunk

……………

“Now you mock me. A true knight would never mock his king.” The Fiddler sounded hurt. ‘ I hope you will put more faith in what I tell you when you see the dragon hatch.”

“A dragon will hatch? A living dragon? What, here?”

“I dreamed it. This pale white castle, you, a dragon bursting from an egg, I dreamed it all, just as I once dreamed of my brothers lying dead. They were twelve and I was only seven, so they laughed at me, and died. I am two –and-twenty now, and I trust my dreams.”---Dameon Blackfyre and Dunk

………………………

“I’ve tried, m’lord. He’s a prince, though.”

“What he is,” said Bloodraven, ‘is a dragon. Rise, ser.”

Dunk rose.

“There have always been Targaryens who dreamed of things to come, since long before the Conquest,” Bloodraven said, “so we should not be surprised if from time to time a Blackfyre displays the gift as well. Daemon dreamed that a dragon would be born at Whitewalls, and it was. The fool just got the color wrong.”—Bloodraven and Dunk

Arianne Chapter WoW

It was then that pasty, pudgy Teora raised her eyes from the creamcakes on her plate. "It is dragons."

"Dragons?" said her mother. "Teora, don’t be mad."

"I’m not. They’re coming."

"How could you possibly know that?" her sister asked, with a note of scorn in her voice. "One of your little dreams?"

Teora gave a tiny nod, chin trembling. "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died."

IT is not exactly clear who the Toland’s descend from or who Teora’s father is there is Targaryen blood in some of the Dornish houses, but I cannot say for sure if she has it or not, but this is what wiki says.

Teora unlike her sister is short, plump, and so shy. The only trait they share is there red hair. She seems to have prophetic dreams.—Wiki

When I researched I found that possibly one of her ancestors could be a son or daughter of Danerys Targaryen and Maron Martell or a bastard of Aegon IV by Cassella Vaith.

That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realise that his second head was weeping.—Tyrion’s dream from DwD

Jon and Tyrion in GOT----"What are you reading about?" he asked

"Dragons, ' Tyrion told him.

"What good is that? There are no more dragons," the boy said with the easy certainty of youth.

"So they say," Tyrion replied. "Sad isn't it? When I was your age, I used to dream of having a dragon of my own."

"You did? ' the boy said suspiciously. Perhaps he thought Tyrion was making fun of him.

"Oh yes. Even a stunted, twisted, ugly little boy can look down over the world when he seated on a dragon's back." Tyrion pushed the bear skin aside and climbed to his feet. " I used to start fires in the bowels of Casterly Rock and stare at the flames for hours, pretending they were dragonfire. Sometimes I'd imagine my father burning. At other times, my sister." Jon Snow was staring at him, a look equal parts horror and fascination. Tyrion Guffawed. "Don't look at me that way, bastard. I know your secret. You've dreamt the same kind of dreams."

................

'Most men,' the boy said. "But not you.'

'No, ' Tyrion admitted, 'not me. I seldom ever dream of dragons anymore. There are no dragons."

sorry for the weird page breaks.

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Jon Snow never has a dragon dream. (when I say dragon dream, I mean a dream invoIving the animal called a dragon, not specifically the prophetic dreams) I have always wondered about this, I mean why did Jon never have any of the dreams? Maybe GRRM just thought it was too obvious. When a whole lot of other Targ's did. This is what I have on Dragon dreams;

There are a lot of mentioning of Dragon Dreams, not prophetic dreams, just a dream with a dragon in it. They come from a lot of the Targaryens we have met. Also in Dunk & Egg there are a lot of passages about Dragon Dreams. Absolutely the only people that have them in any of the books are Targaryens. No one else does and that is a fact. This is what Wiki says about Dragon Dreams.

‘Dragon dreams affect those with the blood of the dragon, who are known to have premonition-like dream ability - they are no ordinary dreams. They often involve dragons but not always.

Dragon dreams appear to have haunted those with the blood of the dragon throughout the generations; some more than others.

The Targaryens had these dreams as well as the Blackfyres’.--Wiki about Dragon dreams

Also it is interesting that the only people we get descriptions of Dragon dreams from are Targaryens that were born after the last dragons died, meaning none of the people having these dreams have ever actually seen a dragon in real life, the closest they have ever come is seeing the skulls in the throne room or a painting/drawing in a book. The only exceptions of this are the Dragon Dreams Dany has after her dragons are born. But she does have Dragon Dreams before hatching her dragons, so she is another example to back my theory. Of course you know where I am going with this……the ONLY person who ever mentions having had a Dragon Dream other than a known Targaryen is of course Tyrion Lannister. And it is not like we never hear about non-Targaryen dreams, several POV’s in the books have dreams, but none except the Targaryen’s involve Dragons at all. Even in D&E, Dunk has several dreams and although he is chasing dragon eggs and around a lot of Targaryens throughout his stories, he never once dreams of a DRAGON. I am not claiming any of these dreams are prophetic. All I am pointing out is that his character dreams of dragons just like the Targaryens. And to my knowledge no one except Targaryens ever mention dreams involving dragons of any kind, except Teora Toland form the Arianne gift chapter. It is hinted her family has had Targaryen’s in it, but it is not confirmed one way or the other who she descends from, so it is a grey area for this argument. Just want to cover my bases.

Dany GOT-----"The Dragon has three heads, there must be one more". --Her vision of Rhaegar in the HOTU

Dany GOT Dreaming---“Viserys was hitting her, hurting her. She was naked, clumsy with fear. She ran from him, but her body seemed thick and ungainly. He struck her again. She stumbled and fell. He struck her again. She stumbled and fell. “You woke the dragon,” he screamed as he kicked her. “You woke the dragon, you woke the dragon.” Her thighs were slick with blood.

She closed her eyes and whimpered. As if in answer, there was a hideous ripping sound and the crackling of some great fire. When she looked again Viserys was gone, great columns of flame rose all around, and in the midst of them was the dragon. It turned its great head slowly. When its molten eyes found hers, she woke, shaking and covered with a fine sweat.--

Dany GOT before her wedding--Newly wedded, when she is despairing in the Dothraki Sea, and feeling that she cannot go on, she dreams of a black dragon again.

“There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.”

SOS Dany---The night before the sack of Astapor on the Balerion Daenerys has what may be a prophetic dream:

That night she dreamt she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.[1]

Sam FfC, Maester Aemon tells Samwell Tarly:

“I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and their dreams killed them, every one. Aemon to Sam

Aemon has 3 brothers, Aegon V, Dareon Targaryen and Aerion Targaryen

From 'The Hedge Knight'

“Across the room, the lordling raised his head from the wine puddle. His face had a sallow, unhealthy cast to it beneath a rat's nest of sandy brown hair, and blonde stubble crusted his chin. He rubbed his mouth, blinked at dunk, and said, "I dreamed of you." His hand trembled as he pointed his finger. "you stay away from me, do you hear? You stay well away"--

Dareon Targaryen at the inn talking to Dunk

The Hedge Knight--"I dreamed of you," said the prince.

"You said that at the inn."

"Did I? Well it's so. My dreams aren't like yours, Ser Duncan. Mine are true. They frighten me. I dreamed of you and a dead dragon, you see. A great beast, huge, with wings so large they could cover this meadow. It had fallen on top of you, but you were alive and the dragon was dead."

"Did I kill it?"

"That I could not say, but you were there, and so was the dragon. We were the masters of dragons once, we Targaryens. Now they are all gone but we remain........"—Dareon Targaryen and Dunk

List of Characters who are known to have Dragon Dreams.

Dany, Aemon the Drgaon Knight, Rhaegar Tagrayen, Dareon Targaryen, Dameon Balckfyre, Aerion Targaryen, Teora Toland and Aegon V and Bloodraven says ‘there have always been Targaryens who dreamed of things to come.’ In reference to Dragon dreams. And then there is Tyrion Lannister having the dreams in the first section of GOT, which as we all know is full of hints for future storylines for a lot of characters, especially R+L=J. So why can’t there be small hints to A+J=T???

D&E The Mystery Knight

“A dragon would. The prince insists the egg will hatch. He dreamed it, just as he once dreamed his brother’s dead. A living dragon will win us all the swords that we would want.”---About Dameon Blackfyre (the prince)

“I’m not stupid ser.” Egg lowered his voice. “Someday the dragons will return. My brother Dareon dreamed of it, and King Aerys read it in a prophecy. Maybe it will be my egg that hatches. That would be splendid.”—Aegon V talking to Dunk

……………

“Now you mock me. A true knight would never mock his king.” The Fiddler sounded hurt. ‘ I hope you will put more faith in what I tell you when you see the dragon hatch.”

“A dragon will hatch? A living dragon? What, here?”

“I dreamed it. This pale white castle, you, a dragon bursting from an egg, I dreamed it all, just as I once dreamed of my brothers lying dead. They were twelve and I was only seven, so they laughed at me, and died. I am two –and-twenty now, and I trust my dreams.”---Dameon Blackfyre and Dunk

………………………

“I’ve tried, m’lord. He’s a prince, though.”

“What he is,” said Bloodraven, ‘is a dragon. Rise, ser.”

Dunk rose.

“There have always been Targaryens who dreamed of things to come, since long before the Conquest,” Bloodraven said, “so we should not be surprised if from time to time a Blackfyre displays the gift as well. Daemon dreamed that a dragon would be born at Whitewalls, and it was. The fool just got the color wrong.”—Bloodraven and Dunk

Arianne Chapter WoW

It was then that pasty, pudgy Teora raised her eyes from the creamcakes on her plate. "It is dragons."

"Dragons?" said her mother. "Teora, don’t be mad."

"I’m not. They’re coming."

"How could you possibly know that?" her sister asked, with a note of scorn in her voice. "One of your little dreams?"

Teora gave a tiny nod, chin trembling. "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died."

IT is not exactly clear who the Toland’s descend from or who Teora’s father is there is Targaryen blood in some of the Dornish houses, but I cannot say for sure if she has it or not, but this is what wiki says.

Teora unlike her sister is short, plump, and so shy. The only trait they share is there red hair. She seems to have prophetic dreams.—Wiki

When I researched I found that possibly one of her ancestors could be a son or daughter of Danerys Targaryen and Maron Martell or a bastard of Aegon IV by Cassella Vaith.

That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realise that his second head was weeping.—Tyrion’s dream from DwD

Jon and Tyrion in GOT----"What are you reading about?" he asked

"Dragons, ' Tyrion told him.

"What good is that? There are no more dragons," the boy said with the easy certainty of youth.

"So they say," Tyrion replied. "Sad isn't it? When I was your age, I used to dream of having a dragon of my own."

"You did? ' the boy said suspiciously. Perhaps he thought Tyrion was making fun of him.

"Oh yes. Even a stunted, twisted, ugly little boy can look down over the world when he seated on a dragon's back." Tyrion pushed the bear skin aside and climbed to his feet. " I used to start fires in the bowels of Casterly Rock and stare at the flames for hours, pretending they were dragonfire. Sometimes I'd imagine my father burning. At other times, my sister." Jon Snow was staring at him, a look equal parts horror and fascination. Tyrion Guffawed. "Don't look at me that way, bastard. I know your secret. You've dreamt the same kind of dreams."

................

'Most men,' the boy said. "But not you.'

'No, ' Tyrion admitted, 'not me. I seldom ever dream of dragons anymore. There are no dragons."

sorry for the weird page breaks.

Nice post :), I think the 2 heads could represent Tyrions Targ side and Lannister side

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@ Suzanna Stormborn, I don't remember Prince Aemon the Dragonknight being said to have had dragon dreams.

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@ Suzanna Stormborn, I don't remember Prince Aemon the Dragonknight being said to have had dragon dreams.

“I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and their dreams killed them, every one. Aemon to Sam

Aemon has 3 brothers, Aegon V, Dareon Targaryen and Aerion Targaryen

but remember i am only talking about dreams involving a dragon, not specifically the prophetic dreams

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“I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and their dreams killed them, every one. –Aemon to Sam

Aemon has 3 brothers, Aegon V, Dareon Targaryen and Aerion Targaryen

but remember i am only talking about dreams involving a dragon, not specifically the prophetic dreams

That's Maester Aemon then, not the Dragonknight.

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Nice post :), I think the 2 heads could represent Tyrions Targ side and Lannister side

Me too!!! That is exactly what I think. :cheers:

It could also be the two sides of Tyrion that want to kill Jaime and don't want to kill Jaime.

IIRC Tyrion does miss Jaime in ADWD and thinks about not killing him.

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That's Maester Aemon then, not the Dragonknight.

Yes the same person, later in life, speaks of dreams he has had and seems to be currently still having them when he says it to Sam.

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Yes the same person, later in life, speaks of dreams he has had and seems to be currently still having them when he says it to Sam.

No, Aemon the Dragonknight was Daeron II's uncle, or father depending on what story you believe.

Maester Aemon is grandson of Daeron II, who is named after Prince Aemon the Dragonknight.

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My position over these matters are quite known. I hate, and repeat hate secret Targaryen/Lannister theories for, IMHO, they have no textual basis.

1. Why would Tywin wait for so long to abandon Aerys, if Aerys indeed impregnated Joanna in 274AC? Why waith for another 6 years when such shame occured?

2. If Tyrion was Aerys's, why simply not kill him? After all, Tyrion wasn't his kin. Entire kinslaying thing makes sense if Tyrion is Tywin's son only, not Joanna's. If Tywin married Joanna, he would never see Tyrion as his own blood. So, tolerating dwarf kid makes sense only if he was indeed his.

3. There is a difference between dragon dreams and dreams in which we have dragons. It is clearly indicated that every boy in Westeros dreamt of dragons, and Tyrion's dreams have always represented childish desire for power. There is nothing prophetic about them, nothing would suggest those dreams are actually prophetic a la Targaryen dragon dreams.

4. Conjencture OP made is simply based on presented idea, and is not supported by textual evidence. Why Aerys refused Tywin is because he wanted Targaryen blood for his son, like he was obliged to marry, and second to deny Tywin's greatest desire, to have a Queen he can control. Since, no evidence is made ti support the claim that Aerys lost respect towrads Tywin due to cockolding, I have to reject this entire idea.

5. People, name thread as it is... There is nothing wrong in the title - Tyrion is Targaryen... You inform people what you truly want to discuss, and those that hope to read something new will skip it.

So, those of you who want to answer on my points, please do that without answers a la 'It's possible' or 'I think what happened'. I want to hear some textual basis for this claim, not your own desires and conjenctures

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