Did the Old Gods punish Robb Stark?

[Kiss of Fire]

Did the King in the North offend the Old Gods by marrying Jeyne Westerling via the Gods of the Seven (the Southern Gods)? This marriage cost him plenty cultimating in his death at the RW. Did a search but could not find any threads that explore this possibility.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Even if they had any agency, I doubt the Old Gods would be so aghast at a Southern wedding ceremony that they would manipulate someone into breaking the biggest taboo of all and slaughtering his guests.

[Mladen]

No.

[The Great Walrus]

First off, the Old Gods aren't real, so it's not like they can do anything. Secondly, even if they were real, i doubt they would care about Robb breaking one vow, but at the same time be okay with something like the right of the First Night...

[Steinnis]

This argument would have more credibility if you proposed the Old Gods punished Robb, for beheading Rickard Karstark, who would of been distant kin to Robb. But still, very little to go on.

[Groat]

First off, the Old Gods aren't real, so it's not like they can do anything.

I for some reason picture a tomcat with one eye and a torn ear staring at you after making this statement. The stare is malign.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

No :ack:

[Ser Greg of House House]

I guess in a sense the downfall of House Stark has to do with their Southern Ambitions, represented by Rickard's and Ned's alliances. Bran dreaming about becoming a knight, Sansa's ways at first etc. are all signs of that.

If anything, Robb was returning to their old ways when he was declared King in the North. But the need to secure the Riverlands led him into failure. If he had retreated to the North, he would probably be fine.

So I guess there's something to what you're saying, but it's not the gods acting directly or to do with a marriage ceremony.

[The Great Walrus]

I for some reason picture a tomcat with one eye and a torn ear staring at you after making this statement. The stare is malign.

Well i suppose the Old Gods maybe technically real, but they're certainly not deities in any traditional sense. And Balerion can get over it, he's just a warged cat after all.

[Frozentree]

First off, the Old Gods aren't real, so it's not like they can do anything. Secondly, even if they were real, i doubt they would care about Robb breaking one vow, but at the same time be okay with something like the right of the First Night...

But, they are real. In fact they are the only gods actually confirmed to be real. Based on what definition of "god" you use, you could say they are not gods, but the entities called old gods and worshiped in the North do exist and do have power, though they are not omnipotent and something like this would probably be still above their limits

edit: took too long to write

[The Great Walrus]

But, they are real. In fact they are the only gods actually confirmed to be real. Based on what definition of "god" you use, you could say they are not gods, but the entities called old gods and worshiped in the North do exist and do have power, though they are not omnipotent and something like this would probably be still above their limits

Well that is my point, they are considered gods in the ASOIAF universe, but they aren't gods in any traditional sense of the word.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

But, they are real. In fact they are the only gods actually confirmed to be real. Based on what definition of "god" you use, you could say they are not gods, but the entities called old gods and worshiped in the North do exist and do have power, though they are not omnipotent and something like this would probably be still above their limits

I understand that pov, but I personally would say that what we meet are not the Old Gods Ned & co pray to. They were certainly the inspiration for those beliefs, and they are the closest thing to it that exists, but I still wouldn't call them the same.

[Zman1863]

I think GRRM created the religious climate to be much like our own world. Yes, there is magic in the series, and it is attributed to divine beings, but that attribution still requires a leap of logic and faith. I regard things like guest right and the kinslaying taboo and emphasis on oaths etc as societal rather than divinely ordained rules.

[Blutraven]

Well considering The Ned married Catelyn in a 7 ceremony and did alright for the next 15 years, I'd say no.

[Blede]

Eddard Stark married Catelyn Tully in a Faith of the Seven ceremony. Are you saying the Old Gods caused his death too ?

Edit: Ninja'd.

[kiasyd]

Well, I don't believe that gods exist, so no...

[Vengeance]

But, they are real. In fact they are the only gods actually confirmed to be real. Based on what definition of "god" you use, you could say they are not gods, but the entities called old gods and worshiped in the North do exist and do have power, though they are not omnipotent and something like this would probably be still above their limits

edit: took too long to write

Confirmed to exist by whom and where?

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

The Stark kids and Jon are all half Southron and still have Old Godsy warging powers. It couldn't have been that a big of a deal.

[WildBlood]

First off, the Old Gods aren't real, so it's not like they can do anything. Secondly, even if they were real, i doubt they would care about Robb breaking one vow, but at the same time be okay with something like the right of the First Night...

Well i suppose the Old Gods maybe technically real, but they're certainly not deities in any traditional sense. And Balerion can get over it, he's just a warged cat after all.

Well that is my point, they are considered gods in the ASOIAF universe, but they aren't gods in any traditional sense of the word.

Are any gods really real? Book or not... What is a traditional deity. Even in real life people worship some crazy things. To each his own though.

[aceluby]

No, gods are not real. Magic is real and is explained simply through 'gods', but gods as the people of Westeros think of them are not real.