What were 'Dany's Huge Mistakes' in Meereen?

[Squire Dalbridge]

I've seen them 'Huge Mistakes' mentioned many a times in these conversations. I tried to found a topic focusing in them but I couldn't find any. I would like to hear what they were.

I admit wondering during ADwD why were we not told about her dragon training. Maybe she did that, maybe she didn't. Probably the latter cause her control over (at least two of) them seems weak. If it's true, it probably wasn't wise.

And putting them in fetters wasn't very wise either. But we know her soft spot for children, believing her children killing real children must have hurt. The real mistake here was taking the accusation for granted, I believe. But can we really blame her.

Then there's this Hizdahr-thing... Marrying and trusting him didn't seem wise. She should have imprisoned him, when he told he can stop those killings. Wasn't that suppose to be a bit suspicious? But she saw that as the only way to earn the trust of the Meereenese.

I'm so idealistic I can't see ending the slavery being such a big mistake. Not anything as big as to accuse her for it, or hate her for it!

So, some mistakes, I don't deny it. But how about the things that could be called mammoth mistakes. Like putting her only valuable things (dragon eggs) in pyre? Or going there herself? Or buying a slave army with her biggest dragon? Taking Arstan as queensgard (remember Jorah's opinion)?

Many cases, where she could be very grateful afterwards when she hadn't obeyed her old, wise counselors and kept the safe way.

Judging by some mistakes, after many glorious, original and groundbreaking decisions no one else would have done seems a bit unjust. Keeping in mind that we're talking about a fourteen-year-old.

And if it's the Daario thing that pisses you off, I wonder how would you think, if we did change a male character in her place? Would you judge him likewise for being lusty over and bedding (her/him) while the 'him' we actually are talking about is a sellsword, not a noble jeyne-westerling or anything.

So, what are the Huge Mistakes? And why this much hate? Tell me.

[The Great Jon]

Her biggest mistake in Meereen was staying in Meereen :cool4:

[Groat]

There's an older reread project for Dany in DWD which really goes into details, but some of the harsher criticisms of Dany are:

1) Crucify the slaver's at radom. This is the biggest one. There was no trial, no justice, just 163 (or w/e the number was) former nobility chosen at random to die painful deaths. Obviously, the crimes the slavers committed (the babies dead on the road) was horrific, but the cconsensus is this was an emotional decision and was not the best one.

2) Ignoring the dragons. This is another huge mistake. These are her most essential tool for winning back the IT and the 7 kingdoms, and to allow them to become essentially feral was a big mistake on her part.

3) Allowing the Shavepate to use torture on children. This was another emotional decision she made in anger, but to give Dany credit she did learn from this mistake and no longer used torture methods later in the book

The rest of the criticisms are mostly people just annoyed with Slaver's Bay culture, the lack of depth, and Dany being a normal teenage girl.

Then there's this Hizdahr-thing... Marrying and trusting him didn't seem wise. She should have imprisoned him, when he told he can stop those killings. Wasn't that suppose to be a bit suspicious? But she saw that as the only way to earn the trust of the Meereenese.

Personally, I think this was a great decision on Dany's part. She brought peace to her city, furthered her cause by marrying Hizdar, and was on her way to becoming accepted by the Mereenese. And unlike a certain Stark king, she actually kept her betrothal promise despite a better opportunity coming along, as well as the fact that she wasn't really attracted to him. I give Dany a lot of respect for decision to marry him, and to actually follow up and do it.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Only those in Dance, omitting her mistakes in earlier books (of which there are at least as many):

- believing that shepherd without proof

- locking up her dragons without any long-term planning

- abandoning the Astapori in their struggle against the very same foe

- rubbing salt into the wounds of that one young Meereenese come to her for justice

- trusting the Green Grace/the Harpy

- taking hostages and letting slip that she would be unable to harm them

- rubbing salt into that one woman's wounds come to her for justice, despite her mirroring Dany's own fate to a T

- trusting Daario, Walder Frey's second coming

- publically showing her favor for Daario while being engaged and married to Hizdahr. And before, when he undermined her standing in the population.

- clear favoritism for the freedmen

- ordering the torture of innocent girls in a fit of rage

- shaming Dorne in front of the entire court

- not preparing the city for a siege

- driving the Second Sons to desertion

- not picking up on any of the many hints for the involvement of the Green Grace with the Sons of the Harpy

That are just the huge mistakes, each and every one possibly fatal for her regime in itself. There's a huge load of mistakes without consequences as dire on top.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Groat hit on the big ones. Another is not being able to recognize that the Green Grace was the Harpy, which should have taken a minimum of maybe 30 seconds of critical thinking. She's allowing possibly innocent people to be tortured while at the same time giving away EVERYTHING to the Grace ... Including confirming that she has no intention of hurting her hostages and the Sons can act with impunity.

[Seeeyeare]

I don't know if it could be described as a mistake, but I wanted to throw her off of the highest building in Meereen when she contemplated what to do about the dead bodies outside the walls of Meereen. Dragons burning the bodies, would have ensured that she didn't have to risk infecting her council and co, which could spread like wildfire inside the city.

[SeanF]

I don't know what she could have done to help Astapor. It's 450 miles away, with Yunkai in between, and she has no navy to enable her to transport soldiers there..

Her advice to their Ambassador - don't launch an attack on Yunkai - was sound.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

I didn't realize it was a confirmed fact the GG is the Harpy

[JeepCSC]

As has been mentioned, the biggest mistake in Mereen is that she was around Mereen long enough to make so many.

[SeanF]

The mass crucifixion was a mistake on every level. It was quite sufficient to make her hated by the Mereenese upper classes (most of them) while being quite insufficient to break their power or terrorise them.

And, it showed them that she gets upset at the death of children, something which her enemies will exploit.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I don't know what she could have done to help Astapor. It's 450 miles away, with Yunkai in between, and she has no navy to enable her to transport soldiers there..

Her advice to their Ambassador - don't launch an attack on Yunkai - was sound.

She could have attacked the Yunkish in the back. She marched one way, could march the other way as well. Furthermore, she had already beaten them once.

And her advice was pure, willful blindness. There could be no lasting peace between the Wise Masters and the Freedmen unless there was a vast economic and social chance. It's no coincidence that the Yunkish marched from Astapor directly to Meereen - and everybody saw it from a mile away. Except Dany.

[Chaircat Meow]

She could have attacked the Yunkish in the back. She marched one way, could march the other way as well. Furthermore, she had already beaten them once.

And her advice was pure, willful blindness. There could be no lasting peace between the Wise Masters and the Freedmen unless there was a vast economic and social chance. It's no coincidence that the Yunkish marched from Astapor directly to Meereen - and everybody saw it from a mile away. Except Dany.

IMHO the author doesn't really give us enough evidence to go on to judge this a folly or not.

We do know Dany would have to split the army to deal with the Yunkish (as she needs to garrison Meereen against insurgents). Barristan at one point talks of sending just the freedmen to fight the Yunkai in the field. That might have ended badly.

The Yunkai also had support from the men of New Ghis, who sent four legions, trained after the manner of the unsullied, to aid the slavers. That could be anywhere from 4,000 to 24,000 men, and if it is the later she needed the dragons to have much chance of success (as Brown Ben argued). Yes, she could have attacked Yunkai and hoped to take the pressure off Astapor by doing so, but would that have bogged half of her forces down in a costly siege while more pro-slaver contingents landed on the coasts? Would the Yunkish army double back, or continue prosecuting the Astapori war (all this depends on the strength of their defences in Yunkai).

Judging it an unmitigated folly is very harsh given all the variables.

[SeanF]

The first time round, she both outnumbered the Yunkish and took them by surprise. This time round, the Yunkish have recruited 5,500 sellswords, and have the backing of 24,000 soldiers from New Ghis. She has 8,000 Unsullied (less losses, but plus any trainees who've joined them) , 1,000 sellswords, and several thousand freedmen who are undergoing training. She'd have to leave much of her army behind to guard Mereen, and then march a long distance to attack people who greatly outnumbered her.

That's not a great strategy.

[Chaircat Meow]

@SeanF

Do we know for a fact the New Ghiscari numbers? I remember trying to puzzle that out the last time I read DwD, and couldn't. Are you just assuming a legion = 5-6,000 based on that being the strength of a Roman legion in the late Republic/early Empire?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The mass crucifixion was a mistake on every level. It was quite sufficient to make her hated by the Mereenese upper classes (most of them) while being quite insufficient to break their power or terrorise them.

And, it showed them that she gets upset at the death of children, something which her enemies will exploit.

This is a solid analysis of it. It was stupid and wrong just by virtue of how it was done, but it also betrayed a critical blind spot that has ever since been used to undermine her: her attitude toward children.

[SeanF]

@SeanF

Do we know for a fact the New Ghiscari numbers? I remember trying to puzzle that out the last time I read DwD, and couldn't. Are you just assuming a legion = 5-6,000 based on that being the strength of a Roman legion in the late Republic/early Empire?

The strength of a legion varied at various periods of Roman history (sometimes, it was as little as 1,000). However,

in the Barristan sample chapters for TWOW, a legion of New Ghis is described as comprising 6,000 men

[aceluby]

Her biggest mistake in Meereen was staying in Meereen :cool4:

/thread

Hell, even GOING to Meereen was a mistake IMO... All she needed were some ships and sail her ass to Dragonstone and set up camp where it actually means something toward her end goal.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The exact strategy of dealing with the Yunkai isn't important. The problem is that peace was not possible, but instead of searching for solutions, Dany pulled a Bowen Marsh and hid her head in the sand, doing absolutely nothing.

@SeanF

Do we know for a fact the New Ghiscari numbers? I remember trying to puzzle that out the last time I read DwD, and couldn't. Are you just assuming a legion = 5-6,000 based on that being the strength of a Roman legion in the late Republic/early Empire?

As far as I know, no. Furthermore, it's unlikely to be so many, since armies above 20,000 men tend to be extremely rare on Planetos, and hell to feed.

[Consigliere]

Her biggest mistake was going to Mereen in the first place. Once she acquired the Unsullied in Astapor she should have left Slavers Bay. Once in Mereen her big mistakes were chaining up her dragons (instead of trying to learn about dragon lore) and allowing the great masters to live. If she wanted to sucessfully instill a new regime then the old regime (the great masters) needed to be eliminated. She also became obsessed with prophecy (like Cercei) which resulted in her viewing everything with suspicion and making silly decisions as well as failing to recognize that the Harpy is a woman (the harpies are depicted as female).

[Chaircat Meow]

The strength of a legion varied at various periods of Roman history (sometimes, it was as little as 1,000). However,

in the Barristan sample chapters for TWOW, a legion of New Ghis is described as comprising 6,000 men

Ah, thanks.

Dany's decision to not march to relieve Astapor looks sensible then.