chrisdaw Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I'm not saying Edmure was actually tortured, i'm just pointing out the fact that far worse stuff goes on in the bowels of Casterly Rock.Ah ok, I don't remember sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhymes with Weak Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I suppose with Mel, you have to remember she believes she is doing this for the greater good of humankind. In order to appease R'hollor agents of evil have to sacrificed in order for life to be sustained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Melli Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 So at the end of the day ...All the people who actually got burned weren't innocent and this was a matter of justice?We have 4 traitors (2 of Hubard Rambton sons,Alester Florent,Guncer Sunglass) 3 cannibals and Rattleshirt.Don't get me wrong though I'm not in favor of death by burning alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrish Swamp Thing Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Three in ASOIAF. She may have carried out other burnings during her career. Stannis has also burned three people. Dany has burned two, flayed one, and crucified 163. Victarion has burned six female sex slaves, and drowned twenty catamites, with weights attached. Tyrion has carried out four murders. Melisandre's record is pretty average, for the series.Daenerys Bolton! :PWhich one was that? My memory fails me at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherAnduin Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Daenerys Bolton! :PWhich one was that? My memory fails me at the moment.Dany wanted to flay all the Yunkai's commanders. Solid foreshadowing for a marriage to Roose Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Daenerys Bolton! :PWhich one was that? My memory fails me at the moment.The Seller of the poisoned wine. I have no sympathy for him, but his end must have been rather disagreeable, as his flesh and body parts were torn away.For someone so young, Dany is pretty imaginative, when it comes to disposing of her enemies. Ramsay would probably admire her greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf in Hallowed Places Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 We have 4 traitors (2 of Hubard Rambton sons,Alester Florent,Guncer Sunglass) 3 cannibals and Rattleshirt.Also, as has been noted upthread, Mel was leagues away when the cannibals were burnt, and technically (ie., splitting hairs), only 2 of them were burnt to death as one of them had his throat slit on the way to the pyre (can't remember the knight's name, the one who pesters Asha).There are Westeros standards and real world standards. By Westeros standards, Mel's hands are relatively clean. Is her burning traitors any worse than the Ned beheading deserters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Melli Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Also, as has been noted upthread, Mel was leagues away when the cannibals were burnt, and technically (ie., splitting hairs), only 2 of them were burnt to death as one of them had his throat slit on the way to the pyre (can't remember the knight's name, the one who pesters Asha).There are Westeros standards and real world standards. By Westeros standards, Mel's hands are relatively clean. Is her burning traitors any worse than the Ned beheading deserters?I agree with the clean hands.People react very negative when it comes to Melisandre on this board.At the end of the day Melisandre has done more good then bad such as keeping Davos' son back to protect him which was revealed in her POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I agree with the clean hands.People react very negative when it comes to Melisandre on this board.At the end of the day Melisandre has done more good then bad such as keeping Davos' son back to protect him which was revealed in her POV.I am guilty of hating on Mel a lot myself, but I saw a quote from GRRM saying he feels Mel is his most misunderstood character, so between that and her getting a POV, I actually started to like her a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Melli Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 I am guilty of hating on Mel a lot myself, but I saw a quote from GRRM saying he feels Mel is his most misunderstood character, so between that and her getting a POV, I actually started to like her a little more.I also hated Mel in ACoK and the first half of ASoS but she changed in ADWD for me. I asked a question "is she really evil?"I went to a couple of threads and realised pretty much everyone has a negative view on her which I didn't understand. I was 100% sure she isn't evil after GRRM quote and ADWD. She want's to help AA to defeat the Great Other and the White walkers.At the end of the day she does more good than harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I also hated Mel in ACoK and the first half of ASoS but she changed in ADWD for me. I asked a question "is she really evil?"I went to a couple of threads and realised pretty much everyone has a negative view on her which I didn't understand.I was 100% sure she isn't evil after GRRM quote and ADWD. She want's to help AA to defeat the Great Other and the White walkers.At the end of the day she does more good than harm. Alyssa Rosenberg considers her to be "the most important religious figure in Westeros, and the only one of Stannis' advisors to keep him on a course that is both strategic and moral." That's an interesting take on Melisandre, and one that very few readers would share, in my view. Much more common is the view that Melisandre is a kind of bad angel who offers him power in return for doing evil, while Davos is his good angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 So at the end of the day ...All the people who actually got burned weren't innocent and this was a matter of justice?We have 4 traitors (2 of Hubard Rambton sons,Alester Florent,Guncer Sunglass) 3 cannibals and Rattleshirt.Don't get me wrong though I'm not in favor of death by burning alive.People (eta: Rambton and his sons) standing up to religious persecution and fanaticism and being killed and burned for it suffices to make their killings "a matter of justice"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhymes with Weak Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 People standing up to religious persecution and fanaticism and being killed and burned for it suffices to make their killings "a matter of justice"?The lot that got turned to ash most certainly shouldn't be considered martyrs, they were burned because of political reasons and as a form of punishment. Also, rattleshirt was a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Melli Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 People standing up to religious persecution and fanaticism and being killed and burned for it suffices to make their killings "a matter of justice"?As far as I know all those people commited crimes the king is allowed to sanction the deaths of traitors, is he not?Same story with Ned Stark who beheaded deserters and you see no one blaming or accusing him. And yes burning people alive is terrible but you must realise these men weren't innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 The lot that got turned to ash most certainly shouldn't be considered martyrs, they were burned because of political reasons and as a form of punishment. Also, rattleshirt was a dick.I was talking about Rambton and his sons - sorry, should've clarified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Melli Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 I was talking about Rambton and his sons - sorry, should've clarified.Rambton and his sons killed 4 queen's men during this event he and one son of his died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 On my first read, I did think Stannis and Melisandre were burning people for refusing to worship R'hllor. That's actually not the case. Neither of them do this - Stannis' army comprises followers of R'hllor, the Seven, and the Old Gods. Stannis was persuaded by Melisandre to destroy his own Sept at Dragonstone, and to burn his images of the Seven. Ser Hubert Rambton and his sons attempted forcibly to prevent the destruction of the Sept. Lord Sunglass renounced allegiance to Stannis, because of Stannis' embrace of R'hllor. In my view, Stannis ought to have shown mercy in these cases, but he was entitled to sentence them all to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Rambton and his sons killed 4 queen's men during this event he and one son of his died.That adresses my point how? They were defending the sept when the queen's men came to destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Melli Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 That adresses my point how? They were defending the sept when the queen's men came to destroy it.It means that they've killed 4 men. It was ordered by Stannis. Rambton was a knight of Stannis and he fought against it.It means that he is a traitor and kings are allowed to sanction the death of traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhymes with Weak Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 That adresses my point how? They were defending the sept when the queen's men came to destroy it.Religious fanaticism rears its ugly head once more I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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