A Bong of Ice and Fire Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Yes, Shae deserved to die for gross betrayal and humiliation of Tyrion, topped off by f*cking his worst enemy. Don't try to apply your modern day morals and laws to GRRM's Westeros.Given the circumstances of that time and place, Shae had to go. Her crimes against Tyrion were unforgiveable. To be offended by that is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrogo Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I was also shocked by the difference in book Shae and show Shae. But I do think she deserved her death. But I also think Tyrion is stupid for falling in love with her. It's all very complicated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Yes, Shae deserved to die for gross betrayal and humiliation of Tyrion, topped off by f*cking his worst enemy. Don't try to apply your modern day morals and laws to GRRM's Westeros.Given the circumstances of that time and place, Shae had to go. Her crimes against Tyrion were unforgiveable. To be offended by that is silly.Please, tell me who seems to be offended.And please explain to me her "crimes" against Tyrion. I do not remember since when revealing an embarrassing secret ("I called him Giant of Lannister") and moving on to another employer after her contract with Tyrion ended are punishable by death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Yes, Shae deserved to die for gross betrayal and humiliation of Tyrion, topped off by f*cking his worst enemy. Don't try to apply your modern day morals and laws to GRRM's Westeros.Given the circumstances of that time and place, Shae had to go. Her crimes against Tyrion were unforgiveable. To be offended by that is silly.I doubt even in Westeros that they give death sentences for humiliating someone, also she never betrayed Tyrion in how she never actually owed him any loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Kipor, on second thought, I apologize, I overreacted. Calling you a troll was uncalled for and against the rules here too. Though I stand by my opinion that comparing Tyrion's humiliation to a rape was ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Tyrion is a murderer and Shae did not deserve to die. Tyrion would have been found guilty with or without Shae's testimony. All her testimony served was to humiliate Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 She would have let him die, so, yeah, she deserved death. I mean, if she had been indifferent to Tyrion's trial I'd have understood, since she wasn't paid for anything of that kind, but what she did was terrible, even if she was forced to.(...)lolwut? What could she possibly have done that wouldn't carry a risk of death for her? And why would she risk her life for a customer of her's in the first place? And public humiliation is enough for a death sentence?She was a minor figure who got caught up in the power play of the mighty ones; the notion that she somehow owed Tyrion loyalty and that she subsequently should've acted and thus is deserving of death is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Only characters that deserve death are the ones that enjoy what they do like Craster, Ramsay, and Gregor.Everyone else just deserves to be locked up for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 If Shae deserved death for perjury, how many deaths does Tyrion deserve for his crimes? 813? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 If Shae deserved death for perjury, how many deaths does Tyrion deserve for his crimes? 813?Remember, that Tyrion publicly humiliated Thorne thus it will be only right if Thorne comes by to slowly strangle Tyrion to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipor Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Kipor, on second thought, I apologize, I overreacted. Calling you a troll was uncalled for and against the rules here too.Though I stand by my opinion that comparing Tyrion's humiliation to a rape was ridiculous.It's cool, I believe I must apologize too - saying you was disrespectful wasn't my best moment. Sorry for that, I just kinda lose my temper when I feel that people are mocking my opinions.Well, I still disagree with the ridiculous part, but let's not persist in this, shall we? We all have our differents points-of-view and if we keep debating on which is right and which is wrong, all we will manage is to ruin both our days. I just wanted to put my input on the whole situation here, really.So, all in all, let's just respect each other ^_^ And again, I apologize. See ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirolo Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Remember, that Tyrion publicly humiliated Thorne thus it will be only right if Thorne comes by to slowly strangle Tyrion to death.Where is the straw-man police? Tyrion didn't ridicule Throne with the intention of condemning him to death. Shae one the other hand did. You see the crucial difference? I am not going to comment on whether Shae deserved to die, but I sure as hell not going to lose sleep over her death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Tyrion didn't ridicule Throne with the intention of condemning him to death. Shae one the other hand did. You see the crucial difference?I am not going to comment on whether Shae deserved to die, but I sure as hell not going to lose sleep over her death.Her humiliation did nothing in convincing Tywin and Mace of Tyrion's guilt, not to mention how many of the supporters of her murder seem just to be hung up on the issue of humiliation. Also, that was hardly a strawman seeing how I wasn't attempting to falsely counter anyone's point with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirolo Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 There is no way to spin this and make Shae come out looking good. If you believe Tyrion is a dead man walking and Shae's testimony doesn't make a shred of difference, then there is no reason for Shae to humiliate him further. To do so only shows malice. On the other hand, If you think Shae's testimony does affect Tyrion's case, then her accusations went above and beyond what is necessary to establish Tyrion's guilt, and again, this reflects badly on Shae. Either way you cut it, Shae comes out as the worse person. That is until Tyrion killed her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Where is the straw-man police?Tyrion didn't ridicule Throne with the intention of condemning him to death. Shae one the other hand did. You see the crucial difference?How is it a strawman when in this thread it was already posted a few times that Shae deserved to die because she embarassed and humiliated Tyrion publicly? Here for example:Yea the Shae in the show is nothing like book Shae. Not sure why they wrote her so different but whatever. And fuck no he wasn't too harsh. That whore totally embarassed him in front of, like, all his family and friends. Hands of gold are always cold, but a women's hands are warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twist Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 I didn't realise what a can of worms this topic was! I think the fact that Shae was a prostitute is a very good "excuse" for her betrayal and why Tyrion should have seen it coming for 2 reasons.1. she would be a rubbish prostitute if she couldn't make a man think she loved him and didn't build his ego. Which is what she must've identified that Tyrion wanted from her. It's a game to her and she played her part. When Tyrion was arrested he couldn't look after her anymore so she had to find someone else and the opportunity came.2. Prostitutes are like sellswords, they only stick around while there's gold to be had and are prone to switching when their benefactor is losing.I don't see what else Tyrion could have done though, perhaps tie her up, but she knew about the secret tunnels and he was angry anyway. It is still the moment that Tyrion changes from being a lighthearted character into a much darker one for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirolo Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Also, that was hardly a strawman seeing how I wasn't attempting to falsely counter anyone's point with that statement.No. You just tried to use a false analogy to ridicule a position. Hardly better than a straw-man I'm afraid. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Either way you cut it, Shae comes out as the worse person. That is until Tyrion killed her.Worse then who?If you believe Tyrion is a dead man walking and Shae's testimony doesn't make a shred of difference, then there is no reason for Shae to humiliate him further. To do so only shows malice. Because Cersei told her to and Shae doesn't owe Tyrion shit thus there isn't reason for her to decline Cersei's wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberry Stark Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Could I just point out that if Tyrion had decided to not place Shae in danger for the last year, she would not have been taken by Cersei?She spent several months working for Tyrion, some of them in seclusion and the rest as a maid (where is this "he kept her as a lady" bit coming from?) and has nothing to show for it: no money, no jewels, no clothes she can sell, nothing.Tyrion was a dead man before Shae gave her testimony-all she really did was humiliate him.I agree. He put her in danger and in Cersei's path. Also, I'm so happy that someone pointed out that she wasn't living some opulent life thanks to Tyrion.Look, Shae was an annoying bitch in the books so I didn't exactly cry a bucket of tears when she died; it's fiction, so the death of a character I don't like, even when unjustified, doesn't bother me. However, she didn't deserve to die for embarrassing and fooling Tyrion - even if she enjoyed it or didn't have to do it. We may never know for sure, but it's possible that Shae was compelled by Cersei to slander Tyrion's character to the extreme in which she did; it is possible it was her choice to do so out of spite, anger, or cruelty. Either way, even by westerosi standards, that doesn't mean she should be murdered.Killing Shae May be understandable, as in we know why Tyrion did it, bit it is not acceptable. Finally, comparing the humiliation of Tyrion to rape is offensive to me. That's not feminism talking either, because men and women get raped in AsoIaF and in real life. In order to avoid derailing the thread I'll leave it at that, but feel free to PM if you need an explanation of why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 No. You just tried to use a false analogy to ridicule a position. Hardly better than a straw-man I'm afraid. :dunno:It is hardly a false analogy, thus stop screaming fallacy when you don't have an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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