Anyone read War and Peace?

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

So I'm reading this book and I am starting the third tome (Natasha is recovering from her disease and the war is taking place again). Since the first pages I was fascinated by Dolokhov, the manipulative rogue who seems to strive for cruelty but is devoted to his family. I was disappointed that he was a relatively minor character and I want to ask for those who read the novel if he gets to participate in some forthcoming events or if his role is complete.

Natasha is a real pain in the ass; Marya is very likable but sometimes insipid to make me involved; Nicholas was insufferable, got better but he is still boring; Andrew and Pierre are both fascinating specially when they interact with each other but I miss the roguish types, like the Kuragin siblings, Prince Vasili and specially Dolokhov. I'd just like to know if they will come back.

I'm not saying I'm reading the book for these characters only but, boy, do they helped to carry on the narrative when I had to be stuck with Natasha and Nicholas for many pages.

I'm looking forward for Tolstoy's interwoven essays on History and War which are already starting to take place at some points.

[Myshkin]

It's been a long time since I last read it, but if I recall correctly Dolokhov has some scenes in the latter part of the book. Anatole Kuragin's role gets bigger, but less roguish.

[Lummel]

Watch out! Natasha comes closest to the moral / ideologically core of the book.

[WinterKing]

I' ve read it and I liked it very much, specially the war scenes, that are very well written.

[Buckwheat]

I liked Natasha enough, but Sonja even slightly more. Marja was really annoying to me because of the way she acted, always putting up with the father's nonsense. It took me a long time to read that book, and I found the history essays incredibly boring, but the interactions between characters were nice to read.

[King of the Bastards]

tried to. maybe will continue some day. hasn't caught me that hard

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

I liked Natasha enough, but Sonja even slightly more. Marja was really annoying to me because of the way she acted, always putting up with the father's nonsense. It took me a long time to read that book, and I found the history essays incredibly boring, but the interactions between characters were nice to read.

Yeah, it's hard to swallow Marya's resignation to her tyrannical father but it is his fault more than anything. I'd like her more if she stood up to him but I understand where her passivity comes from.

I also like Sonja. Before I started reading I was told Sonja was supposed to be a little selfish but I don't see it in anything she does. She is the voice of reason for Natasha and a very loyal friend (specially regarding the incident with Kuragin). My problem with her is the way she is written in the beginning, compared often to a cat. That gave me the idea she was willful and mischievous. She is like the complete opposite. But that's a problem of my reading I suppose, not the character. I don't think she is very developed character either.

I also like Helene specially because the narrator clearly despises her. I probably wouldn't like her if her selfishness was glorified but I think the narrator vilifies her too much.

Natasha is really annoying for me. Too much saccharine, giggling, histrionics and more giggling in one character if that makes any sense.

It's taking me a long time to read too but it's one of the longest novels in the world and I'm a slow reader so that was to be expected.

Shit, Petya is Nicholas 2.0!

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

Watch out! Natasha comes closest to the moral / ideologically core of the book.

I knew it beforehand so after the first scene with Natasha I was very pissed. I think the narrative gravitates around Pierre morally/ ideologically speaking as well and I like him so it's OK for me.

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

It's been a long time since I last read it, but if I recall correctly Dolokhov has some scenes in the latter part of the book. Anatole Kuragin's role gets bigger, but less roguish.

Thanks!

[Buckwheat]

Yeah, it's hard to swallow Marya's resignation to her tyrannical father but it is his fault more than anything. I'd like her more if she stood up to him but I understand where her passivity comes from.

I also like Sonja. Before I started reading I was told Sonja was supposed to be a little selfish but I don't see it in anything she does. She is the voice of reason for Natasha and a very loyal friend (specially regarding the incident with Kuragin). My problem with her is the way she is written in the beginning, compared often to a cat. That gave me the idea she was willful and mischievous. She is like the complete opposite. But that's a problem of my reading I suppose, not the character. I don't think she is very developed character either.

I know that it is her father's fault, of course, but her submissiveness still annoyed me all the time.

Actually I very much liked how Sonja is always compared to a cat, I did not connect it to willful and mischievous at all, more in the sense of moving elegantly and slowly and liking to have comfort. It is the main thing I remember about her, actually. :P

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

I know that it is her father's fault, of course, but her submissiveness still annoyed me all the time.

Actually I very much liked how Sonja is always compared to a cat, I did not connect it to willful and mischievous at all, more in the sense of moving elegantly and slowly and liking to have comfort. It is the main thing I remember about her, actually. :P

Her father terrifies me. He was already scary at the beginning but now his sadism grew to ridiculous proportions. Even Andrew who has a much more assertive personality than Marya only defied his father one time in his life. I started to enjoy Anatole after this exchange:

"Now you, young prince, what's your name?" said Prince Bolkonski, turning to Anatole, "come here, let us

talk and get acquainted."

"Now the fun begins," thought Anatole, sitting down with a smile beside the old prince.

"Well, my dear boy, I hear you've been educated abroad, not taught to read and write by the deacon, like your

father and me. Now tell me, my dear boy, are you serving in the Horse Guards?" asked the old man,

scrutinizing Anatole closely and intently.

"No, I have been transferred to the line," said Anatole, hardly able to restrain his laughter.

"Ah! That's a good thing. So, my dear boy, you wish to serve the Tsar and the country? It is wartime. Such a

fine fellow must serve. Well, are you off to the front?"

"No, Prince, our regiment has gone to the front, but I am attached... what is it I am attached to, Papa?" said

Anatole, turning to his father with a laugh.

"A splendid soldier, splendid! 'What am I attached to!' Ha, ha, ha!" laughed Prince Bolkonski, and Anatole

laughed still louder. Suddenly Prince Bolkonski frowned.

"You may go," he said to Anatole.

Anatole returned smiling to the ladies.

Your connection about Sonja and a cat makes sense. :) I was just surprised that she was shy and dependent. Not her choice really because she was socially dependent on the Rostovs who were her benefactors.

[tissa]

Was the movie with Audrey Hepburn even close? It was good. My copy of the book is still looking at me.

[grand old duke of stark]

My all-time favourite novel! First, yes, Dolokhov appears on and off in the book, once very dramatically. FAscinating character. Second, though it's probably heresy, the first time through you might skip the battle chapters. I did, though I was 17. It's a book that gets richer and richer with re-reads (like ASoIaF), and once you've got the plot down and the many characters (with their many names) sorted out, you might want to tackle the battle chapters. And don't let all the French bother you. Most translations also translate the French. Unfortunately, French was the language of the Russian court and nobility, so Tolstoy did right to include it. Tolstoy's theories of history (which he explicitly discusses in the Epilogue) are also reflected in the battle chapters. There are so many memorable characters, from the brief appearances of the Tsar and the many scenes with famous generals to the fictional peasant, Platon Karatayev.

The Audrey Hepburn - Henry Fonda version is okay--she's a better Natasha than he is a Pierre--but how much can you get out of such an epic story done in a 3-hour American film? The 90s BBC series with Anthony Hopkins as Pierre is excellent. But my favourite dramatisation is the 60s Russian film, which won Best Foreign Film that year. It was shown in four parts and so delves pretty deeply into the story. I guess the Russians know the Great Russian Novel best. You won't have heard of any of the actors, but they stick with you.

[Clueless Northman]

And don't let all the French bother you. Most translations also translate the French. Unfortunately, French was the language of the Russian court and nobility, so Tolstoy did right to include it.

Unfortunately? Would it have been better, had it been Swahili? ;)

Still, according to him it was so prevalent in the nobility that a few nobles actually had to take Russian lessons when the invasion came and you had to be patriotic and speak Russian and not French anymore. Though I never checked if Tolstoy just made it up or if it really happened.

Of course, the reading is easier when the French is translated and put into italics, or with some other way of guessing which part isn't originally in Russian.

[PetrusOctavianus]

I read it some years ago, and I found it easier to read than I had feared, even though it was an ancient (so old that the language is closer to Danish) Norwegian translation.

I remember thinking it was sad that nice, pretty Sonja ended up as an old maid, and perky Natasja as a fat babushka.

The chapter with the wolf hunt was bizarre with Nikolai (I think it was him) wanting that wolf more than he ever wanted a woman or glory on the battlefield.

The whole historical context was also interesting, but as usual in old novels it's all seen from the perspective of the privileged classes.

[Werthead]

The 90s BBC series with Anthony Hopkins as Pierre is excellent

1990s? 1972 ;) If the BBC had tried to make it in the 1990s, it would have probably bankrupted the corporation.

[red snow]

I'm from the UK so there's a good chance I'm lying if I say I have read it - according to a recent survey.

The thing is I haven't seen any adaptations either so can't pretend to have read it when questioned.

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

My all-time favourite novel! First, yes, Dolokhov appears on and off in the book, once very dramatically. FAscinating character. Second, though it's probably heresy, the first time through you might skip the battle chapters. I did, though I was 17. It's a book that gets richer and richer with re-reads (like ASoIaF), and once you've got the plot down and the many characters (with their many names) sorted out, you might want to tackle the battle chapters. And don't let all the French bother you. Most translations also translate the French. Unfortunately, French was the language of the Russian court and nobility, so Tolstoy did right to include it. Tolstoy's theories of history (which he explicitly discusses in the Epilogue) are also reflected in the battle chapters. There are so many memorable characters, from the brief appearances of the Tsar and the many scenes with famous generals to the fictional peasant, Platon Karatayev.

The Audrey Hepburn - Henry Fonda version is okay--she's a better Natasha than he is a Pierre--but how much can you get out of such an epic story done in a 3-hour American film? The 90s BBC series with Anthony Hopkins as Pierre is excellent. But my favourite dramatisation is the 60s Russian film, which won Best Foreign Film that year. It was shown in four parts and so delves pretty deeply into the story. I guess the Russians know the Great Russian Novel best. You won't have heard of any of the actors, but they stick with you.

I don't like to skip the battle scenes, in fact, any scene at all, but that is just my way of reading, but I understand your point. When I read Germinal I wanted so much skip those endless descriptions that I almost didn't finish the book. I love the discussions before the battles, with the (most of the time pointless - in the sense that Tolstoy rejects strategy as a science). All the officers are great, german and russian, specially Kutuzov, but also Pfuhl, Bagration, Weyrother, etc.

The French doesn't bother me at all. I wanted to read a version directly translated from Russian so the interwoven french passages are to be expected to point the transition. In fact it amuses me the way Hippolyte Kuragin doesn't even know how to talk Russian very well (or French for that matter) because the nobility always speaks in French. Now they are trying to stop because they are at war with France and people like Julie Karagin can't stand "to hear that infamous language" anymore. I'm not reading in English, but in Portuguese (I have the English version only in my computer).

I bought the Russian film and I pretend to watch after finishing the book. I also downloaded a 2007 TV series based on the novel. I'm not very interested to see the Hollywood movie because I suspect it will only focus in Natasha, Pierre and Andrew.

[Werthead]

The battle scenes make up about 5% of the book, and that's probably being generous. One British comedian once summed up the book as not being enough war and way too much peace.

I read the book when I was 18 (and yes, finished it). It was impressive and thought-provoking, but also way too overlong and easily slimmable. When Robert Jordan said he was inspired by War and Peace, he wasn't kidding.