the lord's right and aerys targaryen

[Tommen Beetsbane]

re-reading ADWD and i reliezed that ser barristan actually witnessed or at least knew first hand that aerys rapped lannister. while talking to dany about her father's love life he says "Prince Aerys … as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished. A drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words, or the … the liberties your father took during the bedding." His face reddened. "I have said too much, Your Grace. I—"

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I think the general consensus is that he had groped her during the bedding ceremony. tradition has the men carry the bride to the bedchamber whilst removing her clothing and making bawdy comments. The implication is that Aerys took it way too far and had a good feel.

[BitsOfBrains]

Yeah but thats not to say that he didn't have his way with her later or that Lady Lanister didn't like it and reciprocate and that the two of them didn't carry on an affair.

There is a line in Tywins tirade after Tyrion asks for Casterly Rock.

The line is something like, "since I CAN'T PROVE YOU AREN'T MY SON I have to allow you to wear the Lanister arms." I am paraphrasing, but yeah,

I always took that to mean that Lady Lanister had other men.

A lot of times super domineering powerful men have really weird kinks where they want to be made to wear diapers or be cuckolded or whatever.

Seven of Nine from Star Trek Voyager was the wife of a such a man in real life. He was some politician but he liked to watch other man "know" his wife in the biblical sense of the word.

Its just a theory of course, but there it is.

[SeanF]

It seems that Tywin and Joanna were very much in love with each other, so I think it's unlikely she had an affair with Aerys.

"I cannot prove you are not mine" was just a spiteful comment by Tywin when he lost his temper.

[Stark bannermen]

I think it's Tywin telling tyrion that casterly rock is his (tyrions) but in a demeaning phrase

[I Know I Know HoHoHoooo]

I at first wanted to buy into the conspiracy that something happened between Aerys and Joanna, albeit not at the wedding as I agree with Weirwoods on that point, but potentially later on as Aerys got more "Mad"...but I just don't see how that's possible given what we should be able to assume about Tywin (who is on the same plane as Varys and Littlefinger as far as cunning and masterminding awesome plans).

When would Aerys ever get the chance to rape Joanna? given Tywin's cunning and caution, we can assume he probably left Joanna at home and not to King's Landing when he was Hand...Plus, Tywin's entire life has been building up the Lannister power and wealth and so we can assume that Aerys can't just go and rape Joanna because he thinks he can't do whatever he wants as king...Yeah Aerys did some pretty dumb things, but we find out later that most of his fears were actually try...people were trying to overthrow him and conspiracies with some major houses up north and in the riverlands...the last thing he is going to do is risk alienating yet another major house like the Lannisters.

I'm going on my third read of ASoIaF though and I will say, GRRM definitely leaves a door open for the belief that Tyrion has Targaryen like possibilities (obsessed with dragons/his dark eye is said to be purple at times)...although i think this might just be leaving it a possibility for Tyrion to be apart of Dani's camp of supporters in the end and not an actual Targaryen.

[Odon]

Remember though we're looking at events after Robert knocked the Targaryens off their pedestal. Before the revolution they probably looked as permanent as, well, Casterly Rock. There's a scene where Joffrey accuses Tywin of hiding in the Rock because he was scared of the Mad King. Tyrion notes that Tywin seems unusually agitated afterwards; although it could be because he's directly witnessed Joffrey's sociopathy (and attachment to King Robert as opposed to Queen Cersei) I always thought the barb had hit home. Tywin must have put up with Aerys' crap for years, then some oaf with a warhammer does almost everything he wanted to do. Cold-blooded chessmaster that he is, that had to rankle someone as proud as Lord Tywin.

And maybe he did have a serious reason for hating Aerys other than petty humiliation and stealing his heir. I find it hard to believe that Joanna never came to Kings Landing. We hear of the apparent influence she had on her husband; she's hardly going to be the dutiful stay-at-home type like Kevan Lannister's wife. And if the king was insane, maybe he did act recklessly. Joffrey keeps saying "I am the king!" and "The king can do as he wants!", whereupon either Tyrion or Tywin invariably bring up the subject of Aerys. I agree it's early days to consider if Tyrion is a bastard Targaryen (we'll have to see how the dragons react to him) but there is a possibility that Aerys raped Joanna and Tywin had to keep quiet about it through pride and because (until the revolution) there was literally nothing he could do about it.

[Danelle]

And maybe he did have a serious reason for hating Aerys other than petty humiliation and stealing his heir. I find it hard to believe that Joanna never came to Kings Landing. We hear of the apparent influence she had on her husband; she's hardly going to be the dutiful stay-at-home type like Kevan Lannister's wife. And if the king was insane, maybe he did act recklessly. Joffrey keeps saying "I am the king!" and "The king can do as he wants!", whereupon either Tyrion or Tywin invariably bring up the subject of Aerys. I agree it's early days to consider if Tyrion is a bastard Targaryen (we'll have to see how the dragons react to him) but there is a possibility that Aerys raped Joanna and Tywin had to keep quiet about it through pride and because (until the revolution) there was literally nothing he could do about it.

I agree about Joanna visiting KL. Let us not forget that she was a childhood friend of the King and the Queen.

Even though she was at CR, it would have been expected from her to be present in official events.

As for Aerys, he was insane. What he did to Ser Ilyn, was incredibly cruel and sadistic even for a Targaryen.

Then again, according to a theory, the real reason that made Aerys to remove Ilyn's tongue was that he had witnessed Aerys abusing Joanna.

[I Know I Know HoHoHoooo]

I agree about Joanna visiting KL. Let us not forget that she was a childhood friend of the King and the Queen.

Even though she was at CR, it would have been expected from her to be present in official events.

As for Aerys, he was insane. What he did to Ser Ilyn, was incredibly cruel and sadistic even for a Targaryen.

Then again, according to a theory, the real reason that made Aerys to remove Ilyn's tongue was that he had witnessed Aerys abusing Joanna.

Hmm...kind of having a hard time buying the fact that Aerys cut out Ilyn's tongue because he witnessed abuse...Why wouldn't he have had him killed?? Just cause his tongue was ripped out doesn't mean he couldn't have told Tywin or others what happened (since his house is bannermen to Lannisters).