Joffrey Targaryen

[The Old Tongue]

I haven't seen anyone mention it on here, which is strange considering the amount of people who suspect Jaime and Cersei to be Targaryens. If this theory is correct, then Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are all Targaryens and Joffrey's once invalid claim to the Iron Throne would have been somewhat legitimized.

Furthermore, if Tommen is a Targ, and if Young Griff is really Aegon VI then we'd have 3 Targ factions warring with each other in the next two books.

[Fire Eater]

Jaime and Cersei AREN'T Targaryens. I don't why some people keep insisting that when there haven't been any clues or evidence provided to point to them being Targaryen bastards. Them being Targaryen offspring would only diminish Jon's Targaryen heritage.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Even if they are Targs — just assuming the Jaime and Cersei thing is true, which I doubt but I also strongly prefer that to Tyrion being a Targ — they'd still be bastard Targs and still no longer have a claim. There's no "somewhat legitimized" about it. Still a bastard. And the Targaryens aren't even the royal house anymore, the Baratheons are.

[Mad Monkey]

Ooh, and technically, if Jaime and Cersei are Targaryens, then this means that Joffrey has Baratheon blood as well since Aerys's father is the brother of Robert's grandmother (think about that one for a second). This could mean that Joffrey can be crammed into the line of succession somewhere even for the Baratheon dynasty.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Ooh, and technically, if Jaime and Cersei are Targaryens, then this means that Joffrey has Baratheon blood as well since Aerys's father is the brother of Robert's grandmother (think about that one for a second). This could mean that Joffrey can be crammed into the line of succession somewhere even for the Baratheon dynasty.

1. Rhaelle marrying a Baratheon does not give her Targaryen siblings Baratheon blood or a Baratheon claim.

2. Having said that, all Baratheons are supposedly descended from a Targaryen bastard, Orys. But there are much more recent relatives than that, surely.

3. Still a bastard.

[Mad Monkey]

1. Rhaelle marrying a Baratheon does not give her Targaryen siblings Baratheon blood or a Baratheon claim.

Sure it does! :laugh: Genetics are transitive! Besides, the whole "claim" thing is total bullshit anyway. Once you win the war, you go back and fabricate whatever you need to make it sound as if there is some kind of logical legal precedent to everything you did. If Ned or Jon had wanted the Throne, I'm sure we would have heard some crackpot theory about how the Throne *really* belongs to the Arryns (Andal lineage?) or the Starks (distant Targaryen heir? Valyrian immigrants before it was cool?)

2. Having said that, all Baratheons are supposedly descended from a Targaryen bastard, Orys.

So they are all Targaryens after all! If my math is right, this technically means that Joffrey is actually Stannis's father. Well, maybe not, but the bastard thing isn't a big problem -- GRRM confirmed that the status of bastards is ambiguous and really depends on political needs (you know, like everything else that has to do with claims and successions).

[Lord Egeman]

This talk of Secret Targs is getting really amusing. Before TWoW comes everyone will be Targs.

[Petyr Patter]

I haven't seen anyone mention it on here, which is strange considering the amount of people who suspect Jaime and Cersei to be Targaryens. If this theory is correct, then Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are all Targaryens and Joffrey's once invalid claim to the Iron Throne would have been somewhat legitimized.

Furthermore, if Tommen is a Targ, and if Young Griff is really Aegon VI then we'd have 3 Targ factions warring with each other in the next two books.

Uh, no. Bastards have no right to an inheritance. They have no right to their father's or their mother's name, sigil or words. If they do inherit anythings, its not because they had a right to it, its because they were the best option according to the liege lord. Even if we assume Robert Bartheon had no right to the throne, he would still come before Joffrey and siblings on account of being the true born son of the true born son of the true born daughter of Aegon the V. In contrast, even if we assume Aerys and Joanna had an affair leading to the twin, Joffrey would be the unacknowledged bastard son of the unacknowledged bastard son of Aerys II.

[TalalOfDorne]

That would make Dany Joffreys aunt, and Jon Joffreys cousin. Those poor guys..

[Ludd]

Tell William of Normandy he had no right to his father's seat. He was a bastard - known as William Bastardus

[The Old Tongue]

haha, this is pretty amusing. I honestly don't want the Lannister twins to be secret Targs, but my intentions for the post were that if they are Joffrey would be about as Targaryen as anyone due to his bloodline as well as the fact that he's a child of incest. I think GRRM knows how his fans analyze his writings and places these red herrings into the story to have us toil over these theories for x amount of years until he decides to release the next book that introduces even more open ended story arcs. He's shown us Cersei's madness after explaining a Targ predisposition for it, and implies an interesting Kinslayer component to the Kingslayer story.

Again, I don't want Cersei/Jaime to be Targs, or even Young Griff to be Aegon VI. I think GRRM's vision for the initial trilogy will still remain intact, but he's throwing us some curves as the series swells. It feels like everything happening in Dorne could have been footnotes in Dany's story of her coming to Westeros while everything happening with the Greyjoys is linking Theon's role in whatever is to come. There's a lot of fat at this point but it's fun to chew on.

[Light a wight tonight]

I think a Joff's a Secret Targ is something the Aerys is Cersei and Jaime's father crowd isn't quite ready for. Heh!

[mb2518]

Tyrion compared Joffrey to Aerys at least twice. "Aerys thought he could whatever he wanted and your uncle Jaime killed him." "Not Robert the second, Aerys the third." Then Jaime says this to Cersei in AFFC "Now you sound like Aerys." I don't have the same level of certainty for Jaime and Cersei being Targaryen that Jon being one has. However, there is enough in the books to make you wonder.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

And the Targaryens aren't even the royal house anymore, the Baratheons are.

Nope. the Lannisters are the royal house now. Tommen is as much a Baratheon as I am.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

I would rather Tyrion be a Targ than Jaime and Cersei and if Tyrion is a Targ I would be über pissed.

[mb2518]

The Lannisters aren't the royal house. All of their power hinges on the lie that Tommen is Robert's son. Tommen's reign is being propped up by the Tyrells.

[Riptide]

Any list of proposed secret Targs somewhere I could read?

[mindchap]

Somewhere Egg is turning over in his grave.(And yes, I'm aware he has none)

[Aerys Ahai Reborn]

Any list of proposed secret Targs somewhere I could read?

Here is a pretty good one. It includes all known Targs too.

[Gneisenau]

Even if Baratheon rules KL, any Targaryen does still have a claim to the throne. Of course in order to press their claim they would need armies and whatnot ...