Ease off Jamie, he's a good guy.......

[Whitering]

This and.

Are you even reading the same books?

All the damage done to the riverlands? Jaime notes that the granaries of certain places aren't even half full. I mean, there was basically all of Arya's Clash and Storm chapters, and Brienne's telling you how awful the war was.. The Ironborn continually raid the Reach, and are about to attack Oldtown. The northmen are still fighting each other via Bolton vs. Stannis. The Vale has been raided more effectively due to the mountain clans being armed. The WotFK and its successors is a longer conflict and it is still going.

Robb attacked the Westerlands as well.

Yep, the Reach was the only place still producing food to any degree, and they shipped a lot of their stores to King's Landing in a PR stunt so the populace would love Marge and not have a riot this time. I don't know what the Ironborn are doing to the food or ability to still get that one last crop in, but it can't be helping.

I don't know how the Westlands are doing, Robb probably didn't burn all the way down there, it seemed like more of a raid on supply lines and an army that was getting together than a pillaging trip, however, it is a still further north than the Reach and thus less likely to still be fertile as the winter approaches.

As much as we say how bad off the Riverlands were, we ain't seen nothing yet. Flat out famine is coming, plenty of thin and gaunt wights for the Others to bring back. Heck, at this point, I might even be cheering for them.

It's fun watching people post about how great a guy is that threw a kid from a window, and helped to start a war but then I get a kick out of youtube comments, so I am a bit warped that way.

[IRON BANK]

Jaime Lannister is not a good guy. He just weighs out what is best for him at te moment, and then does it. I have not seen or read about him doing something that did not better his own personal agenda. KillinG the king secured the throne for possibly him or his fathers cronies. Saving Brienne was for selfish reasons because he loves her in his own way. his bad deeds far out weigh the good little simple things he does.

[Le Cygne]

Saving Brienne was for selfish reasons because he loves her in his own way.

Jumping one handed into a bear pit to save someone's life was selfish? Insisting on getting in front of her and when she refused, kicking her legs out from under her? I'm not saying he's a good guy, but give him something.

[Sansa_Stark]

Jumping one handed into a bear pit to save someone's life was selfish? Insisting on getting in front of her and when she refused, kicking her legs out from under her? I'm not saying he's a good guy, but give him something.

He should be given a noose and I'll be satisfied.

[IRON BANK]

Jumping one handed into a bear pit to save someone's life was selfish? Insisting on getting in front of her and when she refused, kicking her legs out from under her? I'm not saying he's a good guy, but give him something.

Ill give him that one. However If Brienne was a friend he would not have saved her it. He only sees Brienne in a weird sexual way. One as a mother figure and 2 Brienne is the knight he wishes he could be.

[Le Cygne]

Ill give him that one. However If Brienne was a friend he would not have saved her it. He only sees Brienne in a weird sexual way. One as a mother figure and 2 Brienne is the knight he wishes he could be.

A weird sexual way! Is there a chapter that was missing? The one with rescue sex?

[Fat Mac]

Ill give him that one. However If Brienne was a friend he would not have saved her it. He only sees Brienne in a weird sexual way. One as a mother figure and 2 Brienne is the knight he wishes he could be.

What? Jaime was still madly in love with Cersei by the time he saved Brienne from the bear, and I doubt he saw any woman in a sexual manner other than Cersei. He also saved her from being raped while he still pretty much hated her.

[Le Cygne]

What? Jaime was still madly in love with Cersei by the time he saved Brienne from the bear, and I doubt he saw any woman in a sexual manner other than Cersei. He also saved her from being raped while he still pretty much hated her.

You can feel love for two people at the same time. And I daresay he was already falling out of love with Cersei/in love with Brienne at the time ("Gentler than Cersei" he thought, as he swooned into her arms, after getting a "platonic" boner looking at her naked, then yet another "platonic" boner after looking at her naked in his dreams, oh yes, the two of them were the only ones naked in the dream, and she was "almost a beauty" and all of that non-sexual stuff going on).

My disagreement is not that he didn't see Brienne sexually, but that he saved her life for sex.

[Spartan64Destiny]

WOW, thanks to all of you on this forum for knocking this thread out the ball park!!!!! I guess all Jon Snow Theory threads have been played out and now I know what you guys really want in regards to refreshing new threads that are non-JS related. I wish I can re-read the ASOIAF books to contribute to this AWESOME Fan Forum a little better, but my duties to the hospital dictate a lot of my time.

So keep on posting! Com'on lets all give Jamie a break and Tryrion the benefit of a doubt, now Cersie on the other hand, feed that evil b#tch to The Others or burn her alive with wild fire!!!!! Ser Arthur, I didn't mean to interpret your twisted sense of humor as trolling, so joke a away all you want bud!!!!!

[Spartan64Destiny]

You got to admit, the old Jamie would have killed Edumure Tully for clowning around on him by helping BlackFish escape, instead he just reacted like a kindergarten teacher would with mischievous problem child in class....lol!!!!

[IRON BANK]

A weird sexual way! Is there a chapter that was missing? The one with rescue sex?

He is obviously attracted sexually to Brienne, as Brienne is sexually attracted to him. (Jaime also admires Briennes martial prowess) Briennes; authoritative pooise, femininty, the way she admires Jaime, and also dotes over Jaime, subconciously reminds Jaime of the love he never received from his dead mother as a child. Jaime also is attracted to Briennes; since of honor, duty as a knight, and also her skill at arms. This reminds Jaime of what he wishes he could be and through the process of replacement he is attracted to Brienne because he realizes inside it is what he is not.

[Ludd]

Jaime is a guy who started life with noble intentions, stepped off the path when just a boy, but having stepped off made no attempt to return to the path of honour.

BUT

Somehow brienne has awakened in him a desire to be the man he wanted to be at 15. His is a redemption arc that has some hope of success.

He has however a long way to go. Pushing Bran and bonking his sister are pretty bad actions.

[Le Cygne]

He is obviously attracted sexually to Brienne, as Brieene is sexually attracted to him. Jaime also admires her martial prowess. Brieenes authoritative pooise, femininty, the way she admires Jaime, and also dotes over Jaime. subconciously reminds Jaime of the love he never received from his dead mother as a child. Jaime also is attracted to Briennes since of honor and duty as a knight, also her skill at arms. This reminds Jaime of what he wishes he could be and through the process of replacement he is attracted to her because he realizes inside it is what he is not.

Right, so we agree about that. Sort of. I think you're on to something with the mother in the sense of a gentle sort of love. But I think he knows his mother loved him and more likely, he's comparing Cersei and Brienne, that's where "gentler than Cersei" came from.

So let's just say he loves her (I think he does, but I don't hang a lot of conditions on that word). My disagreement is you're discounting what he did, saving her life, because of the way he feels about her. Would it be noble of us to go around saving the lives of complete strangers, sure. But it's also noble to feel love about someone to the extent that you'd jump into a bear pit to save their life.

He didn't actually get anything out of it. Just knowing that she was safe, that's all. They didn't go off to bang somewhere. They may never get to that point. He's probably going to die first. He didn't do it for himself, he didn't do it for anyone else or any other reason but for her. He did it for her. Same reason he yelled Sapphires and got kicked in the stump for it, to save her from rape.

[Spartan64Destiny]

Cersie was a very negative influence which contributed to the poor decision making actions Jamie committed earlier on in the beginning and that has to be reiterated before we cast our final character judgment on him. I'm sure 85% of this forum has done something out of character, but not as bad, due involvement of a bad relationship with that significant other.

[Dany Girl]

Cersie was a very negative influence which contributed to the poor decision making actions Jamie committed earlier on in the beginning and that has to be reiterated before we cast our final character judgment on him. I'm sure 85% of this forum has done something out of character, but not as bad, due involvement of a bad relationship with that significant other.

Blaming Cersei for Jaime's bad decisions is a strawman argument. She didn't force him to push Bran, in fact she was pissed he did it. She didn't force him to kill Jory and the rest of Ned's men. She didn't force him to break every single vow he's ever made. He needs to be held accountable for his actions just as Cersei should be held accountable for hers. And the same goes for every character.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I find it hard to like Jamie, idk maybe cause im a Bran stan :dunno:

[MindLikeWarp]

There are far too many contradicting vows to blame anyone, even Jaime for breaking any of them. Any vow that could possibly have him facing off against his own blood is a vow that was never a vow to begin with, because one can't and shouldn't be able to make a vow against one's family. It is silly, and obvious that most won't adhere to it.

The only reason the Night's Watch even works slightly is because of how far it is from the south.

Jaime is labeled the KINGSLAYER, yet he lives. If that is truly the ultimate vow, then he should be dead, yet he leads men now, even while handless. I think most of the people of Westeros, understand that most vows are bullocks, and understand that family ties are good enough reasons to break "vows".

I'd say letting your children be slain, rather than slaying someone else's children sounds honorable, but it also sounds cowardly. One should fight for their family before someone else's. Jaime protected his family. Sorry, Bran. Shouldn't have been climbing walls and spying on adults. I'm guessing Jaime turning himself in and getting him, Cersei, Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella executed, would have been the right thing to do. LOL...it is funny that self-preservation is really a foreign concept to some.

[Sansa_Stark]

Blaming Cersei for Jaime's bad decisions is a strawman argument. She didn't force him to push Bran, in fact she was pissed he did it. She didn't force him to kill Jory and the rest of Ned's men. She didn't force him to break every single vow he's ever made. He needs to be held accountable for his actions just as Cersei should be held accountable for hers. And the same goes for every character.

Actually that's a misconception. She was pissed he failed, and she wanted it done. She takes some of the blame for Bran too.

Not that it absolves Jaime, but I agree with the 2nd part I bolded.

[WildFury]

I feel Jamie is a good person on his own. But Cercei is the evil which makes him do bad things. All his life whatever bad he has done has been influenced by her. Throwing down of Bran, hunting for Arya etc..

But on the other hand he has done several good things too. Like:

1. Saving kings landing from burning.
   
2. Never going around singing his reasons for king-slaying as he was supposed to keep his kings secret.
   
3. Being kind to Pia.
   
4. Keeping his vow made to Catelyn and doing all he could to save the girls and not to take up arms against house Tully and Stark.
   
5. Returning to Harrenhal and jumping in bear-pit to save Brienne, in-spite of being a cripple.
   
6. Saving his brother from his doom.
   

All in all he had been arrogant, proud and blind in his love for Cercei. But now I think that veil has been lifted. With a little more of Brienne (who seems to have a positive impact on him), he may still become a better person.

I have a feeling that he would be the valonqar of Cercei's prophecy. He has paid a portion of his crimes when he lost his sword hand and his fighting skills along with it. Remaining portion he can cover up in coming books. He has shown potential to become a better man, he may become a better swords-man too, like Qhorin Halfhand.

[IRON BANK]

Right, so we agree about that. Sort of. I think you're on to something with the mother in the sense of a gentle sort of love. But I think he knows his mother loved him and more likely, he's comparing Cersei and Brienne, that's where "gentler than Cersei" came from.

So let's just say he loves her (I think he does, but I don't hang a lot of conditions on that word). My disagreement is you're discounting what he did, saving her life, because of the way he feels about her. Would it be noble of us to go around saving the lives of complete strangers, sure. But it's also noble to feel love about someone to the extent that you'd jump into a bear pit to save their life.

He didn't actually get anything out of it. Just knowing that she was safe, that's all. They didn't go off to bang somewhere. They may never get to that point. He's probably going to die first. He didn't do it for himself, he didn't do it for anyone else or any other reason but for her. He did it for her. Same reason he yelled Sapphires and got kicked in the stump for it, to save her from rape.

I can understand more clearly where you are coming from, Lets remember the difference between the two individuals and remember their status with in westeros society. Brienne goes to war serving the starks 2nd and Baratheons 1st. Brienne while doing these activities remembers the vows she swore as a knight to protect the weak and fulfill her vows. Remember when she was in the riverlands at the Inn and was attacked with Gendry part of the reasoning for her making a stand against those at the Inn was because there were orphaned children that needed protecting. Also those men needed to be brought to justice. Brienne is outnumbered however she fights any way. Brienne protected those children without knowledge of who they were because that is what a knight is supposed to do. Brienne just met these people she knows they are in a bad situation and her vows and morality lead her to help. as an example when edric storm needed help Davos did the same thing he helped the bastard, they had just met. When Mel wanted to sacrifice the king beyond the walls baby Jon tried in a off hand way to help the baby even though said baby will not know of the effects or feel them ever for some time but still Jon helps. Jaime has helped 1 person begrudgingly (he had to think about it first) and did so out of a surface inner love he cannot put into words. If it was a complete stranger Jaime would not have helped. Brienne on the other hand would have never stood by and allowed an event like that to happen to anyone, her since of duty will not allow it. Jaime did the right thing saving Brienne but did so for selfish reasons he would not have put himself in danger for someone he does not know. which some might shrug off. However Jaime is a knight and should be able to act selflessly. Just think if you called your local fire dept or policeman and know one showed up. As citizens we are aware that they would even though you are a stranger.