Misconceptions about Tywin

[TalalOfDorne]

That first sentence :lol:

So if the brutality of the death doesnt matter, then its alright to murder a criminal by hacking off every part of his body before killing him, because he's going to die anyway, amiright? Human decency is something that Tywin lacks.

And other than the fact that his kids turned out to be arrogant and cruel human beings, and that one of them ends up killing him, and that the other two commit incest and high treason and helped start a war to protect their secret, they were ok :rolleyes:

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Yeah, no. Even Bronn thinks it cruel and unusual punishment. Tywin's treatment of his father's mistress and Tysha is talked about in-world because it is awful even by Westerosi standards.

But that's the point, plenty of shit that happens is horrible but is allowed to happen in those times. When the Blackfish sends away the smallfolk from Riverrun and burns their crops it is a deplorable thing to do, as are plenty of the actions in the series.

[TheCrannogDweller]

When the Blackfish sends away the smallfolk from Riverrun and burns their crops it is a deplorable thing to do, as are plenty of the actions in the series.

That was a necessary military action. In time of war, there is collateral damage.

All the actions you pointed out are easily justifiable.

I dare you, I double dare you, offer one logical, sane reason to justify Tywin's order to gang-rape Tysha.

[Gurkhal]

That was a necessary military action. In time of war, there is collateral damage.

All the actions you pointed out are easily justifiable.

I dare you, I double dare you, offer one logical, sane reason to justify Tywin's order to gang-rape Tysha.

Sharp lesson for all the golddiggers of Westeros to dig elsewhere?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

That was a necessary military action. In time of war, there is collateral damage.

All the actions you pointed out are easily justifiable.

I dare you, I double dare you, offer one logical, sane reason to justify Tywin's order to gang-rape Tysha.

Sadly she too was collateral damage in teaching Tyrion the difference between the peasents and the highborn.

But why the condmenation over this one rape, in our own time there are plenty of women who are forced into prostitution against their will and are raped on a daily basis. In the medieval ages when the smallfolk had no rights and smallfolk women somehow even less most of these brothels that Tyrion frequents would of been full of such women.

I'm pretty certain that Tysha was not the last woman that Tyrion raped, just the last one he was emotionally invested in.

[James Arryn]

Sharp lesson for all the golddiggers of Westeros to dig elsewhere?

The event was widely publicized?

[BearIslander]

Sharp lesson for all the golddiggers of Westeros to dig elsewhere?

Tywin was good at giving sharp lessons to everybody, not excluding his crazy twins. So he should not complain that in the end he received a sharp lesson through his bowels.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Sharp lesson for all the golddiggers of Westeros to dig elsewhere?

Sadly she too was collateral damage in teaching Tyrion the difference between the peasents and the highborn.

But why the condmenation over this one rape, in our own time there are plenty of women who are forced into prostitution against their will and are raped on a daily basis. In the medieval ages when the smallfolk had no rights and smallfolk women somehow even less most of these brothels that Tyrion frequents would of been full of such women.

I'm pretty certain that Tysha was not the last woman that Tyrion raped, just the last one he was emotionally invested in.

I'm sorry, but you both sound like you're trying to justify gang-raping a common girl. I can't believe I'm going to say that, but apparently, compared to Tywin fanboys, even the Stanstans look sane and logical.

[Gurkhal]

The event was widely publicized?

I would imagine that a barrack full of guardsmen would spread the tale.

Not saying it was a good thing but there's a logical and sane rational for it, even while I don't agree with it.

EDITED: And it seems like I overlooked the CrannogDweller's word "justify". And since I've seen it now I've say that I have no justification for it. I spoke because I thought that you were ask for "any logical, and sane, rational for it"

[thelittledragonthatcould]

I'm sorry, but you both sound like you're trying to justify gang-raping a common girl. I can't believe I'm going to say that, but apparently, compared to Tywin fanboys, even the Stanstans look sane and logical.

er, no. Plenty of the crap that goes on in the series is beyond the pale but I dont see the point in taking the high ground on one thing and ignoring all the other deplorable things that happen in the series.

Is Rape wrong. An emphatic yes. But was this rape an isolated incident in the world they live in, no. The smallfolk are being raped and treated like shit all across Westeros.

[TheCrannogDweller]

EDITED: And it seems like I overlooked the CrannogDweller's word "justify". And since I've seen it now I've say that I have no justification for it. I spoke because I thought that you were ask for "any logical, and sane, rational for it"

Is Rape wrong. An emphatic yes. But was this rape an isolated incident in the world they live in, no. The smallfolk are being raped and treated like shit all across Westeros.

Thank you for that. At least we can agree that this action of Tywin was absolutely deplorable and unnecessarily cruel.

[Hannis]

I know most people won't like Tywin and I understand why.

I am a great fan of Tywin. This character shows us how should a man be practically. Eddard shows us how should a man be ideally.

Tywin gave King's peace for so many years. It wasn't Aerys who ruled seven kingdoms its Tywin. This is enough to understand about him. He is father of dysfunctional family. He did his best to keep things straight.

He started a war for Tyrion, made him Hand of the king and wanted to seat him at Winterfell. But Tyrion is too stupid to obery his father and instead he kills him. and people are crazy about the IMP.

Hypocrites.

[Winter's Knight]

er, no. Plenty of the crap that goes on in the series is beyond the pale but I dont see the point in taking the high ground on one thing and ignoring all the other deplorable things that happen in the series.

Is Rape wrong. An emphatic yes. But was this rape an isolated incident in the world they live in, no. The smallfolk are being raped and treated like shit all across Westeros.

You must point out where people are ignoring all the other deplorable things.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Thank you for that. At least we can agree that this action of Tywin was absolutely deplorable and unnecessarily cruel.

Yeah, but so are many of the actions by the nobles in the series. Making Bran watch an execution at the age of 7 or the Blackfish burning the smallfolks winter provisions seem deplorable to me as well.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

You must point out where people are ignoring all the other deplorable things.

You want me to review every single thread and every single poster on this forum?

[Winter's Knight]

You want me to review every single thread and every single poster on this forum?

Since this is a Tywin thread, people will obviously talk about Tywin's atrocities. You claimed that we're ignoring the other atrocities, ergo please back up said claim.

You also forget that a lot of the atrocities we see are either acts of war or carried out by people who are obviously not good (Bolton,Jorah)

.

[BearIslander]

I am a great fan of Tywin. This character shows us how should a man be practically.

Tywin gave King's peace for so many years.

So, I am a commoner in Riverlands. I live, I work, I pay taxes, I raise children. I know nothing about how the wife of some great northern lord took a son of some great western lord captive. And suddenly... I see riders that burn by field, rape my wife and daughters, and pillage all I have. Because their practical lord ordered them to punish... who? Me? For what? That's Tywin's notion of King's peace.

[Minsc]

Tywin gave King's peace for so many years.

Was it really because of his influence?

Lets look at all the causes for the outbreak of war that have happened in the past and how they connect to Tywin's handship.

Blackfyre Rebellions: Tywin had no part in stopping those as the Blackfyres were firmly defeated before his Handship. Thus, he gets no credit for insuring this didn't occur.

Greyjoy Rebellions: the only time we have witnessed the Greyjoys rebelling are during times immediately after some internal strife(Blackfyres for Dagon, RR for Balon). There were no major cases of internal strife before Tywin's so I grant him at most only partial credit.

Wildling Invasions: I doubt the King-Beyond-the-Wall is all together that aware of who the Hand of the King is thus it would more likely be Rickard Stark that ensured that didn't occur.

Dornish Skirmishes: Dorne had already been integrated into the Seven Kingdoms peacefully before Tywin's Handship, thus he gets no credit for this not incurring.

Faith Militant Uprising: The Faith Militant had already been disbanded before Tywin was even born thus he gets no credit in insuring they don't rise up.

Dance of the Dragons: The Targaryian succession had already been clearly established thus he gets no credit for ensuring this didn't happen.

War between the different kingdoms: Aegon I had already conquered all of the kingdoms thus lessening the chances of them fighting amongst each other. Furthermore, four out of the nine kingdoms were secretly in cohorts of creating alliances with each thus further lessening the chances they would fight amongst each other. Thus, he gets no real credit for this not occurring.

Internal Conflicts within the different regions: That would be the responsibility of regional Lord Paramount to insure these conflicts don't break out thus Tywin can only receive credit for the peace in the Westerlands and Crownlands. Furthermore, he didn't ensure complete peace in one of the two regions he was supposed to be watching as seen in the Defiance of Duskendale.

Simply, it looks to me that Tywin's role in the peace in the Seven Kingdoms during his handship is overblown.

[James Arryn]

Edit. Wrong Tywin thread.

[Jory Cassel]

Those are more exceptions than the rule.

Five people who were all heads of three of the great houses in a relatively short period of time, and this list was hardly exhaustive, Brienne, Baelor and Egg come to mind.

But a single example would've sufficed to disprove the claims made in the post I quoted.

er, no. Plenty of the crap that goes on in the series is beyond the pale but I dont see the point in taking the high ground on one thing and ignoring all the other deplorable things that happen in the series.

Is Rape wrong. An emphatic yes. But was this rape an isolated incident in the world they live in, no. The smallfolk are being raped and treated like shit all across Westeros.

Curiously Stannis gelds rapists, Roose has to hide his rape from the Starks, Ned was going to execute one of his vassals for trying to sell two lowborn poachers to slavers and Randyll Tarly hangs/gelds rapists, and I can't recall any Lords (except for Tywin and Roose, maybe Umbers if we take Roose's word for it) who practice raping smallfolk. Care to refresh my memory?