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Misconceptions about Tywin

Victarion10

By Victarion10,
in General (ASoIaF)

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Victarion10 Hedge Knight

Victarion10

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As we all know Tywin is one of the greatest men in the entire history of Westeros but he gets alot of negativity for a few minor things that really shouldn't impact the view of his legacy.



1. The killing of the babes



Yes its a terrible act but it was the correct thing to do, if Tywin didn't have them killed someone else would have, the brutality of their deaths makes no difference.



2. The raising of his children



Really? I mean come on, they are human beings with their own thoughts and feelings, I imagine bringing up kids is a hard thing to do, harder when you're a single parent, harder again when you rule as a lord paramount, even harder when you are ruling seven kingdoms. Even then, his children turned out ok, Cersei became queen, Jaime is one of the greatest knights of all time and Tyrion is very intelligent, admittedly they have their flaws but who doesn't? You can't blame the twincest on Tywin and you can't blaming for not wanting a dwarf son to inherit, 100 years ago it was believed that there would never be a black president, does that make everyone 100 years ago bad people? No, they were just products of their times, much like Tywin. By modern standards Winston Churchill was racist, sexist. imperialistic, homophobic etc but is still remembered as the greatest briton of all time and one of the greatest men ever, how does this differ from Tywin?



3. Rains of Castamere



100% Necessary.



4. They way he died.



Does being kill by a dwarf son that you hate and subsequently shitting yourself make you anyless of a great man? No. Achilles died in battle, doesn't make him any less of a warrior, Napoleon was captured and imprisoned, doesn't make him anyless of great commander.



5. Red Wedding



A stroke of genius, orchestrated by his brilliant mind but who got the credit (and also the blame of everyone?) The Freys and Boltons. Pure genius.

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Victarion10 Hedge Knight

Victarion10

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Trolling detected very easily. I didn't even read the rest.

2/10 because people will probably argue over every point just for fun

No troll. Just truth, is there a difference between killing a child and brutally killing a child? No, killing is killing. Is there a humane way to kill a child? No.

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James Arryn Council Member

James Arryn

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1. Why was it necessary? If it was necessary, why weren't Viserys and Dany assassinated?

2. He was a terrible parent. For example, he had his son's wife gang raped. That's not just covered by 'different times'.

3. We have no idea if it was 100% necessary. We don't even know why the Tarbecks and Reynes were in conflict with the Lannisters, or to what degree they were. It may have been necessary, it may have been overkill, or it may have been mass murder.

4. I have never seen people arguing that his being on the toilet when he dies is meaningful to his character, but if they have, they're wrong. However, being killed by the son you framed for murder while sleeping with his love interest probably does say something pretty loud about your character.

5. Yes, it was brilliant. That does not preclude it being unwise in a big picture sense, but that's tbd.

I don't like dismissing these things as trolling, btw. People sincerely argue things which baffle me on a regular basis, so generally I give them the b.o.d.

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Minsc Council Member

Minsc

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Yes its a terrible act but it was the correct thing to do, if Tywin didn't have them killed someone else would have, the brutality of their deaths makes no difference.

1. Thus, if he was politically smart he should have captured them alive and given them to Robert so that the blood of their deaths would be solely on Robert's hands.

Instead, he won himself the complete and utter hatred of the Martells and Dorne that even 15 years later they are planning to enact bloody vengeance against Tywin and his kin.

2. The raising of his children

2. No, his children didn't turn okay. Two of them have abandoned the family because of his actions, and the other is driving his house into ruin because like daddy she doesn't think the lion has to answer to anyone.

3. Rains of Castamere

There is no way to know if his approach was necessary at this time.

4. They way he died.

Achilles and Napoleon weren't defeat because in their awfulness they drove someone who should have been a valued ally into killing them.

5. Red Wedding

Everyone knows that Tywin was involved and hate the Lannisters just the same, thus once again he earned his house the eternal hatred of a number of his foes.

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jongtu Squire

jongtu

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Ty-win was a man of his time. A great man indeed. Prospered his house during his life time. You may say that the Lannisters are weak. A Lannister king? Who is also lord of the Stormlands. What are you smoking. Tw-win did cruel things. However so has all great leaders in the past. Ruthlessness is what it takes to survive. Look at old Ned. Yep. Ruthlessness. He got far.

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Bronn Urgandy Council Member

Bronn Urgandy

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I bet he personally administers Gregors hefty dosage of milk of the poppy and reads him bedtime stories to help numb the guilt of a lifetimes worth of completely necessary atrocities he ordered him to commit.


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Consigliere Council Member

Consigliere

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1. The killing of the babes

Yes its a terrible act but it was the correct thing to do, if Tywin didn't have them killed someone else would have

Ned Stark disagrees.

Ty-win was a man of his time. A great man indeed. Prospered his house during his life time. You may say that the Lannisters are weak. A Lannister king? Who is also lord of the Stormlands. What are you smoking. Tw-win did cruel things. However so has all great leaders in the past. Ruthlessness is what it takes to survive. Look at old Ned. Yep. Ruthlessness. He got far.

Yes Ned held honour above ruthlessness and in the end it got him killed. However his honour has inspired loyalty instead of fear and as a result there are many Northern lords determined to restore Winterfell to a Stark while House Lannister is beginning to crumble.

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First of My Name Council Member

First of My Name

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No troll. Just truth, is there a difference between killing a child and brutally killing a child? No, killing is killing. Is there a humane way to kill a child? No.

Or you could, you know, not kill a child... The fact that there is no humane way to do it doesn't mean it's okay.

1. Why was it necessary? If it was necessary, why weren't Viserys and Dany assassinated?

2. He was a terrible parent. For example, he had his son's wife gang raped. That's not just covered by 'different times'.

3. We have no idea if it was 100% necessary. We don't even know why the Tarbecks and Reynes were in conflict with the Lannisters, or to what degree they were. It may have been necessary, it may have been overkill, or it may have been mass murder.

4. I have never seen people arguing that his being on the toilet when he dies is meaningful to his character, but if they have, they're wrong. However, being killed by the son you framed for murder while sleeping with his love interest probably does say something pretty loud about your character.

5. Yes, it was brilliant. That does not preclude it being unwise in a big picture sense, but that's tbd.

I don't like dismissing these things as trolling, btw. People sincerely argue things which baffle me on a regular basis, so generally I give them the b.o.d.

:agree:

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