Who is the best military commander in fire and ice?

[N/A]

By Theon, who massively overstates things.

does that make it less of a victory ? he was outnumbered and was able to apply brilliant strategy to come up with a glorious victory with hardly any losses to speak of (the ratio of casualties was 10 to 1)

[The Fallen]

I disagree he was following Robb into the Westerlands; if he was he would take the Gold Road. it's far more likely that he was trying to besiege Riverrun to try and lure Robb Stark back out.

I disagree with your disagreement. Tywin was definitely going out west. His lands were being ravaged. And his bannermen were losing castles. Cat even mentions to Edmure that he should let Tywin cross and head west. To which Edmure responds that he's not letting Tywin march through Tully lands without being bloodied. Not to mention that a siege of Riverrun at that point in time just doesn't make sense. A siege takes time. Something Tywin didn't have. And what's the point of starting a siege only to end it weeks later, at best.

While Robb (unlike the first two) is good his skill seems to come mostly from listening to good advice, namely from his grand-uncle Bryden, the mastermind behind the north's campaign. I would put the Blackfish as the best commander in Westeros.

Again, I disagree. Robb decided to split his army before the Blackfish joined him. The Blackfish was a great and trusted advisor, but Robb was coming up with the ideas and, I'm sure, the Blackfish helped flush them out. Robb was a prodigy of sorts. That's what happens when you have the great Eddard Stark's military-mind to pick. (As a youngster, not during the actual war.)

I'll post more later on.

[N/A]

i think all targs should be disqualified before anyone starts mentioning them ,cause having dragons is kinda like cheating (post dragons targs are ok)

[Matoro]

Speaking of admirals, do we know anything about Paxter Redwyne's skills? Did he fought any battle? I remember only him besieging Storm's End during RR and then besieging Dragonstone in AFfC.

It looks like general military doctrine of the Reach is "let's sit here and wait until the enemy bores himself to death."

[DaarioKnowsBest]

Having dragons isn't cheating.

Dany hasn't even used hers in battle, only benefit they have is purely pshycological.

Besides, anyone else is free to try to hatch their own dragons.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Baelor the blessed nuff said.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

i think all targs should be disqualified before anyone starts mentioning them ,cause having dragons is kinda like cheating (post dragons targs are ok)

Aegon the conqueror had dragons, but he still used them strategically so hes still a good commander.

Shadowbabies, warging etc. are all fair game as there is a price to pay when you use them.

[BobBob]

Robb is overrated.

He had seasoned veterans by his side to help him avoid beginner mistakes. He made several strategic mistakes like not keeping Roose Bolton by his side which paved the way to the RW, failing to inform Edmure of his plans which caused Edmure to unknowningly ruin. I recall someone making a post about Sun Tzu' Art of War where the commander is at fault if he fails to make his subordinates understand his commands.

Another mistake was letting Cat off too easily in front of his bannermen. He should've confined her to a room and not allow her to come out, or perhaps send her back North to White Harbor so she won't let her emotions get in the way and ruin his war effort. "But he is human! He has emotions!" A king can't let his emotion dictate his decisions, especially in front of lords who expect you to make hard decisions while staying fair to them or you'll lose their support.

Also sending Theon to the Iron Isles was a hilariously dumb thing to do, daddy issues clouded Theon's judgement of what to do.

[N/A]

Having dragons isn't cheating.

Dany hasn't even used hers in battle, only benefit they have is purely pshycological.

Besides, anyone else is free to try to hatch their own dragons.

psychological advantage is very important.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

psychological advantage is very important.

She earned the advantage, anybody else is free to get a hold of some dragon eggs and walk into fire and see what happens.

[N/A]

Aegon the conqueror had dragons, but he still used them strategically so hes still a good commander.

Shadowbabies, warging etc. are all fair game as there is a price to pay when you use them.

5000 beating 60000 is freakin' cheating. aegon was good but he would've never won a single battle if it weren't for his pet lizards

and are you seriously saying that having a wolf on the battlefield grants the same advantage as having a dragon ?

shadow babies are more political assassins than military assets but i see your point on how they could be effective but not on the battlefield (we're taking about battles here not politics or ruling )

[N/A]

She earned the advantage, anybody else is free to get a hold of some dragon eggs and walk into fire and see what happens.

that's exactly why it's cheating ,it has nothing to do with being a good commander it's basically a miracle

and if we go by what you say then theon has earned himself a hundred dragons

[N/A]

Robb is overrated.

He had seasoned veterans by his side to help him avoid beginner mistakes. He made several strategic mistakes like not keeping Roose Bolton by his side which paved the way to the RW, failing to inform Edmure of his plans which caused Edmure to unknowningly ruin. I recall someone making a post about Sun Tzu' Art of War where the commander is at fault if he fails to make his subordinates understand his commands.

Another mistake was letting Cat off too easily in front of his bannermen. He should've confined her to a room and not allow her to come out, or perhaps send her back North to White Harbor so she won't let her emotions get in the way and ruin his war effort. "But he is human! He has emotions!" A king can't let his emotion dictate his decisions, especially in front of lords who expect you to make hard decisions while staying fair to them or you'll lose their support.

Also sending Theon to the Iron Isles was a hilariously dumb thing to do, daddy issues clouded Theon's judgement of what to do.

wow you truly are oblivious about strategy. and enough with all this political talk , you need to distinguish between politics and battles here.

[BobBob]

wow you truly are oblivious about strategy. and enough with all this political talk , you need to distinguish between politics and battles here.

Politics or not, that still affected him on the battlefield.

The rate at which he was making mistakes sheer strategy wouldn't save him against the Lannisters.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

that's exactly why it's cheating ,it has nothing to do with being a good commander it's basically a miracle

and if we go by what you say then theon has earned himself a hundred dragons

A miracle is a shadow baby, a miracle is mind melding with a wolf.

You're saying it's not cheating because they aren't quite as much a powerful weapon as a dragon?

What kind of logic is that????

Like it's not cheating if I only take one steroid injection! That guy over there took 20 steroid injections! He's the cheater! Not me!

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

5000 beating 60000 is freakin' cheating. aegon was good but he would've never won a single battle if it weren't for his pet lizards

and are you seriously saying that having a wolf on the battlefield grants the same advantage as having a dragon ?

shadow babies are more political assassins than military assets but i see your point on how they could be effective but not on the battlefield (we're taking about battles here not politics or ruling )

Warging birds could prove as an extremely good way of scouting, just like flying a dragon to scout, I don't see any of them as cheating.

Political assasinations can turn the tide of a battle so it counts as part of being a commander.

He didn't just conjure the dragon out of thin air I am pretty sure it took years of bonding and taming Balerion.

[aceluby]

Politics or not, that still affected him on the battlefield.

The rate at which he was making mistakes sheer strategy wouldn't save him against the Lannisters.

Except for the fact that it was saving him...

[Erkan12]

1. Tywin lannister - everyone agrees he's a great field commander

Everyone ? Not me. He is average not even good.

[N/A]

people please understand that this a discussion about sheer battles ,politics have no place here ,that's why it say "MILITARY Commander" and not king or politician or even leader in the title.

the things you mention about scouting with birds are not used like ever in the story by any military Commander.

Roman armies used dogs in the battlefield and pigs to frighten elephants but none breathed fire or had the capability to span the field of battle in great speed

are you people basing your arguments on robb having a wolf by his side ? cause that's not realistic at all

and alysane training the dragon has nothing to do with it , it's like saying that the USA has the best commanders because they nuced Japan

[paladin24]

She earned the advantage, anybody else is free to get a hold of some dragon eggs and walk into fire and see what happens.

Anyone who has opportunity to do so is free to lead an army into battle and attempt to outwit and outfight an enemy while at the same time inspiring and leading one's own forces, as well as dealing with politics of one's bannermen and subordinates, logistical concerns, and the legion of other matters which a wartime commander has to deal with, and "see what happens."

There were many great generals who prevailed solely based on own balls and brains, no supernatural superweapons required.