Who is the best military commander in fire and ice?

[Nictarion]

rabble or not 20 to 1 is 20 to 1 and some were giants and mammoths ,so no, this was very impressive

Its really not. The wildlings are untrained, undisciplined, and poorly armed. These factors have to be accounted for. Stannis' one great victory was Fair Island.

[BearIslander]

Ned Stark and Stannis Baratheon seem to have a tie on the top. Jon Arryn might have been good too, but we know too little. He excelled in politics and diplomacy, no doubt.

Robb took much after his dad, that's why he did so well in warfare.

Tywin Lannister is nowhere near. Being a city sacker, peasant raper, baby killer, and wedding planner does not count as military prowess. His fear of Starks is totally palpable in the narration.

Randyll Tarly may be good, but on a smaller scale.

Had Robert Baratheon been a a captain of a big sellsword company, singers would have made epic songs of him.

[N/A]

Its really not. The wildlings are untrained, undisciplined, and poorly armed. These factors have to be accounted for. Stannis' one great victory was Fair Island.

these are men with swords we speak of not commandos with lmgs . you get taken of your horse you get surrounded and you die , think the chaos in kingslanding. when all hell broke loose , those weren't trained men not even armed yet they mad quite the tally because of their numbers

and no the wildlings aren't toddlers ,they're grown men that may not be as well trained as knights or men at arms but they sure as hell know how to kill

if you were in battle would you prefer to fight 20 men or one ?

stannis lost an entire column of cavalry in that battle , so as you can see it's very impressive

for all he is , mance rayder was a shit commander ,having his troops unorganized and his camp without any proper defensive layout.

had it been 5 to 1 or even 9 to 1 i would've agreed with you but 20 to 1 is simply too much

[Kungsmurfen]

Its really not. The wildlings are untrained, undisciplined, and poorly armed. These factors have to be accounted for. Stannis' one great victory was Fair Island.

You're telling us to dismiss a victory fought 20 to 1? I myself didn't like the battle because it was almost unbelieveable and you're saing it's too easy.

I seem to remember a very famous real life battle of about 5000 Greeks fighting (and loosing) a battle against around 100,000 Persians. It's a lost battle that went down in history as proof of the bravery and diciplin of Greek men.

"It's form of warfare(Meaning the Persian empire) was based on massed infantry in light armor to pin the enemy force whilst cavalry dealt the killing blow." "Most Greek sources claim the Persians wore no armor"

and you think we should dismiss it because of bad diciplin and light armour? Shouldn't we then also dismiss all battles fought against the Ironborn who each fight for their own glory and (at least in sea battles) don't wear armour?

Edit: Didn't notice the reply above.

[Matoro]

Had Robert Baratheon been a a captain of a big sellsword company, singers would have made epic songs of him.

"We all know what my brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right."

Yeah, Robert was badass. He might not have been tactical mastermind, but he inspired his men and hammered all opposition down.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

i recommend bryndenfish analysis on military commanders (Robb, jaime, Tywin, dany, Stannis,

http://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/

Stannis is a think the best commander.

[BearIslander]

"We all know what my brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right."

Yeah, Robert was badass. He might not have been tactical mastermind, but he inspired his men and hammered all opposition down.

Robert Baratheon "Boarbane" and "Drunken Storm", captain of Lusty Warhammers.

[Nictarion]

You're telling us to dismiss a victory fought 20 to 1? I myself didn't like the battle because it was almost unbelieveable and you're saing it's too easy.

Training, armor, weapons, horses, and the element of surprise counted for a lot of the victory. I'm sorry but I fail to see what Stannis did that was so ingenious.

[Harrenhal]

I am only considering the wars and battles that I have actually seen since the first book (GoT).

So I would gladly vote for Stannis if the "Battle of Ice" will turn out how I think it will...

Tywin - The second best candidate imo.

Robb - Proved himself to be equally good too but his commander "skillz" lasted only ~1-2 years so I would not say he was the best.

Dany - I think she has to prove more to top her with Stannis and Tywin.

Tyrion - Would have been an epic military commander too if given more chance.

[E-Ro]

i recommend bryndenfish analysis on military commanders (Robb, jaime, Tywin, dany, Stannis,

http://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/

Stannis is a think the best commander.

Thank you for the link. Will read it now!

Training, armor, weapons, horses, and the element of surprise counted for a lot of the victory. I'm sorry but I fail to see what Stannis did that was so ingenious.

Yeah, the wildlings had horses too. As well it seems that a good portion of the wildling warriors were trained as well, they form a spear wall and mance has his cavalry form up on him to counter stannis' cavalry. As well they had unconventional weapons in the form of mammoths and giants. These completely broke one of the columns of heavy horse, but the attack was planned in such a way that the failure of one column did not affect the other two.

The fact that you yourself cannot grasp why it was a great victory doesnt mean it wasnt. He was outnumbered greatly and managed to encircle mances army, winning a smashing victory. It is impressive.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Take one out of

- Jon Arryn (Experiences in the Wot5Pk and successful senior commander in RR)

- Ned Stark (Extremely successful commander in RR)

- Stannis Baratheon (Too many examples to list)

- Robb Stark (a lot)

- Jon Snow (Some decent minor engagements and planning half of Stannis' Northern campaign, but will have to prove himself more)

Ordered by age, not prowess. Interesting fact: Four of them form a line of teacher-pupils :cool4:

Tywin is overrated. Competent, yes, but not outstanding. He never won in a real challenge and got outsmarted by Euron Greyjoy and Robb Stark regularly. He invested a lot in PR though.

Similar Robert, though he didn't invest in PR, as the winning king and a charismatic guy, a lot of the current generation of knights attribute Jon Arryn's and Ned Stark's victories to him. He was good, but not as good as them.

[aceluby]

What constitutes the 'best'? Strategy? Leading men? Winning?

In these stories and the battles we've seen only one person has consistently awesome strategy, leads from the front, and never lost a battle. That person is Robb.

[E-Ro]

What constitutes the 'best'? Strategy? Leading men? Winning?

In these stories and the battles we've seen only one person has consistently awesome strategy, leads from the front, and never lost a battle. That person is Robb.

Never losing a battle doesnt make you the best automatically. Just as losing one or even a few battles doesnt automatically make you a shit leader. Look at Napoleon saladin, etc.

I agree that robb was good, but he seems to me to be more of a leader of cavalry. I mean, he gives the infantry to roose in got and then just sort of forgets about them. Always struck me as odd for some sort of military genius.

[aceluby]

The fact that you yourself cannot grasp why it was a great victory doesnt mean it wasnt. He was outnumbered greatly and managed to encircle mances army, winning a smashing victory. It is impressive.

Condescending much?

What do you think gave Stannis more trouble in this attack on Mance's 'army'? The women... or the children?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Never losing a battle doesnt make you the best automatically. Just as losing one or even a few battles doesnt automatically make you a shit leader. Look at Napoleon saladin, etc.

I agree that robb was good, but he seems to me to be more of a leader of cavalry. I mean, he gives the infantry to roose in got and then just sort of forgets about them. Always struck me as odd for some sort of military genius.

He needed to Roose there to limit Tywin's possibilities. At least that's my take on it.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Condescending much?

What do you think gave Stannis more trouble in this attack on Mance's 'army'? The women... or the children?

The 20,000 raiders.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Best Field Commander- Robb Stark "The Young Wolf"

Best Naval Commander- Stannis Baratheon

Best Commander- Stannis Baratheon

[aceluby]

Never losing a battle doesnt make you the best automatically. Just as losing one or even a few battles doesnt automatically make you a shit leader. Look at Napoleon saladin, etc.

I agree that robb was good, but he seems to me to be more of a leader of cavalry. I mean, he gives the infantry to roose in got and then just sort of forgets about them. Always struck me as odd for some sort of military genius.

Never said it makes you the best automatically or that he was a military genius, as that wasn't the question. My argument is that there are many criteria to base this off of and Robb ranks in the top or is the best in most categories. Heck, I'd put Vic up there and he's dumb as rocks.

[aceluby]

Best Field Commander- Robb Stark "The Young Wolf"

Best Naval Commander- Stannis Baratheon

Best Commander- Stannis Baratheon

Best Naval Commander - Vic Greyjoy

[aceluby]

Best Naval Commander - Vic Greyjoy

Or Euron, but that's more pirating.