A Fancy Story to Make Jon and Lady Catelyn's Lives Happier and Easier

[LovinRC]

I cannot think of anything Ned could have told Cat other than what he did because he promised Lyanna. He was married to Cat but did he really know her? If she knew that Jon was a possible Targ baby, she would have given him up in a minute to protect her own child. Ned did it right. He gave Jon a good upbringing and included him in everything that he could that did not offend his lady wife.

I think Jon is the man he is because of Ned raising him. Hope unDead Cat finds out that Ned is not his daddy before she dies for good.

[Minsc]

That being said, Brandon would have probably made a believable cover story (maybe he visited a whorehouse on his way to King's Landing), but I think Ned knew how Catelyn felt about Brandon and didn't want to sully that. Benjen would have been more difficult to pull off, but really wouldn't have been any more suspicious than Mr. Honorable fathering Jon. But Ned is a pretty simple guy, and couldn't think of a deception any more complicated than Jon was his.

I don't think Ned would want to dishonor his dead brother by claiming he had a bastard that wasn't his, in how Ned could take upon that dishonor himself but he wouldn't place it on someone who couldn't defend themselves from this accusation.

[MindLikeWarp]

He could have just told Cat the truth. She would have went along with the ruse.

He could have at least told her after a few years, when he saw the unnecessary, emotionally scarring hate had no hint of ever dissipating.

[Sansa_Stark]

Ned would say that he is the one who at Benjen's request collected the baby from its mother and brought it to Winterfell.

And how would Benjen have contacted Ned?

And Ned just went to WF by himself all the way from Dorne?

No soldiers or guardsmen who will have seen Ned carrying a baby all the way from Dorne to Winterfell? Those men would talk for certain.

[Tywin Manderly]

There are only two points where travellers enter the North: Moat Cailin and White Harbor. Ned would therefore tell that Benjen had send a rider to Moat Cailin and Raven to White Harbor.

Ned was accompanied by Howland Reed, Jon, and Jon's wet nurse when he returned to Winterfell and these were his sole travel companions on his way back. All others with whom he travelled to Dorne had been killed in the fight with the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy.

[Ygrain]

Ned was accompanied by Howland Reed, Jon, and Jon's wet nurse when he returned to Winterfell and these were his sole travel companions on his way back. All others with whom he travelled to Dorne had been killed in the fight with the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy.

Sorry but this is not text-based. There is no information about how, when and with whom Ned travelled back to Winterfell. All we know is that he, Jon and the wetnurse had been there when Cat finally arrived but it doesn't mean they necessarily travelled together. It is actually quite logical if they didn't - the fewer people know that the baby comes from the south, the less likely they are to make a connection to ToJ.

[Sansa_Stark]

There are only two points where travellers enter the North: Moat Cailin and White Harbor. Ned would therefore tell that Benjen had send a rider to Moat Cailin and Raven to White Harbor.

Ned was accompanied by Howland Reed, Jon, and Jon's wet nurse when he returned to Winterfell and these were his sole travel companions on his way back. All others with whom he travelled to Dorne had been killed in the fight with the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy.

And when people point out that Benjen never sent a rider to Moat Cailin what will the story be then? Or that he never sent a raven to White Harbor?

[DormeDwayne]

I can't see Ned lying to his wife more than he already did, as I can't see him implicating another man, even a dead one, so this is a tough one. A foundling baby would solve this, but not why the child looks like a Stark and why he's raising it with his own trueborn children. I suppose his best bet would be saying the child was Brandon's, Catelyn wouldn't object Jon being raised at Winterfell as one of their own then. He can't say the child is Benjen when Benjen takes the black and doesn't take care of the child. So... Brandon, although I can't see Ned ever saying that.

[Mad Monkey]

I would have tried to convince Catelyn that Jon was her son.

"What do you mean you don't remember him? You were in labor for two days. I remember vividly seeing you with him cradled in your arms the day he was born. You looked so tired but so happy. Come on, Cat, you're acting crazy. I think you might be working too hard -- you know what, take the rest of the week off. I'll keep things together here in Winterfell, you just relax and get your head together. You can't forget you eldest son, sweetie!"

[Tywin Manderly]

And when people point out that Benjen never sent a rider to Moat Cailin what will the story be then? Or that he never sent a raven to White Harbor?

Since raven communication is by stages, in a castle as centrally located as Winterfell there are numerous ravens being received and sent out daily. Only the Maester knows where they come from and where they are going to, and Maesters are sworn not to divulge anything about those communications.

A rider need not be departed from Winterfell, but could be dispatched from a castle or holdfast closer to Moat Cailin to which a raven was sent. This would also be much faster.

[Sansa_Stark]

Since raven communication is by stages, in a castle as centrally located as Winterfell there are numerous ravens being received and sent out daily. Only the Maester knows where they come from and where they are going to, and Maesters are sworn not to divulge anything about those communications.

A rider need not be departed from Winterfell, but could be dispatched from a castle or holdfast closer to Moat Cailin to which a raven was sent. This would also be much faster.

And what happens when people start to talk of this being untrue?

No rider was sent. People will talk. That's the point.

[Tywin Manderly]

As I said before the rider need not to have been departed from Winterfell but from another castle/holdfast close to Moat Cailin, to which a raven was sent by the Maester ordering them to dispatch a rider for the last stage. This is the usual way for getting messages to castles and holdfasts that lack a Maester.

And as for people talking, there were people talking about Ashara Dayne being Jon's mother. Ned brutally suppressed those rumours and the gossipping about Jon's mother ceased immediately and did not ever resume.

[DormeDwayne]

I would have tried to convince Catelyn that Jon was her son.

"What do you mean you don't remember him? You were in labor for two days. I remember vividly seeing you with him cradled in your arms the day he was born. You looked so tired but so happy. Come on, Cat, you're acting crazy. I think you might be working too hard -- you know what, take the rest of the week off. I'll keep things together here in Winterfell, you just relax and get your head together. You can't forget you eldest son, sweetie!"

I loved this one :) Too bad there's so much wrong with it... starting with, what's Robb then? They can be twins since they are not exactly the same age and in babies an age difference is very easy to see. Oh, well :)

[Lointain]

Ned should had revealed the truth to Cat.

And the two would keep the story of Jon Snow secret, while pretending he was a innocent baby bastard, loved by his "father" and that the stepmother learned to love, that would be raised between his siblings, and later, when he was an adult, given a castle and lands to rule has the most loyal bannerman of his brother Robb.

[DormeDwayne]

But Ned barely knew Catelyn when they were married, and spent the first year of their marriage fighting in the South, away from her. How did he know she could be trusted with this knowledge?

[Lointain]

But Ned barely knew Catelyn when they were married, and spent the first year of their marriage fighting in the South, away from her. How did he know she could be trusted with this knowledge?

If Cat konws that Jon isn't the true son of Ned, but only his nephew, i can see her agree to join the plan of Ned (to pretend that Jon is a bastard of Ned), accepting Jon and be more gentle to him, knowing that Jon, later, would be given a keep and land.

The main problem of Ned, is that he doesn't really trust anyone, and keep all for himself, instead of trusting his wife, making all the "Jon is my bastard" plan a terrible chore.

[Mad Monkey]

If Cat konws that Jon isn't the true son of Ned, but only his nephew, i can see her agree to join the plan of Ned (to pretend that Jon is a bastard of Ned), accepting Jon and be more gentle to him, knowing that Jon, later, would be given a keep and land.

The main problem of Ned, is that he doesn't really trust anyone, and keep all for himself, instead of trusting his wife, making all the "Jon is my bastard" plan a terrible chore.

Ned trusts a lot of people. Traitors, poisoners, spymasters, pimps... people that he knows or believes have committed treason and murder and even targeted his own son for death on apparently two occasions... yeah, those people deserve his steadfast trust and blunt directness.

...but his new bride, his brother's ex-fiancee? No, better keep that broad at arm's length. Lie to her, humiliate her, make her feel confused and silly...

I loved this one :) Too bad there's so much wrong with it... starting with, what's Robb then? They can be twins since they are not exactly the same age and in babies an age difference is very easy to see. Oh, well :)

That's an easy one. Never let Cat see both Robb and Jon at the same time until they are slightly older. Or dress them alike at all times. If you're already screwing with your wife's head, just have every visitor and every castle guest insist that the two children look eerily alike. These psychological techniques are fieldtested.

[Fae Boleyn]

If Cat konws that Jon isn't the true son of Ned, but only his nephew, i can see her agree to join the plan of Ned (to pretend that Jon is a bastard of Ned), accepting Jon and be more gentle to him, knowing that Jon, later, would be given a keep and land.

The main problem of Ned, is that he doesn't really trust anyone, and keep all for himself, instead of trusting his wife, making all the "Jon is my bastard" plan a terrible chore.

Ned trusts a lot of people, even when he knows he shouldn't; it's not that Cat is untrustworthy overall. No, I think it's summed up in the scene in the Black Cells. I don't have AGoT on me right now so this is paraphrased but essentially he's wondering about parents and what they'll do for their children, and after wondering what he himself would do thinks something along the lines of "More to the point, what would Catelyn do, in a choice between Jon and the children of her body?"

Harboring a child of Rhaegar puts the whole family at risk. Ned is willing to accept that because Jon is his sister's child, his own blood. Jon is nothing to Catelyn; if she thought it would be safer for Robb if this half-Targ nephew was turned in, odds are she'd do it.

And even if she doesn't, much as it's awful for both Cat and Jon, her dislike of him actually helps the ruse. It's far more believable for a wife, in this world, to resent her husband's bastard son, not become a loving stepmother. Especially since Jon's age shows he was conceived around the same time as Robb, meaning Ned was either unfaithful and is now compounding that, or a painful reminder that he would have preferred someone else to her but had no choices.

[DormeDwayne]

"What do you mean you don't remember him? You were in labor for two days. I remember vividly seeing you with him cradled in your arms the day he was born. You looked so tired but so happy. Come on, Cat, you're acting crazy. I think you might be working too hard -- you know what, take the rest of the week off. I'll keep things together here in Winterfell, you just relax and get your head together. You can't forget you eldest son, sweetie!"

I though you were joking O_o Well, if you're serious: Ned could not have seen Catelyn with Jon in her arms after the birth because she was fighting in the south while she was at Riverrun. That would mean that not only would he somehow have to convince her, but also Lord Hoster, the Riverrun maester, who's loyal to Riverrun only, all the serving women at Riverrun etc. It would have been impossible to ensure the story held at Winterfell, where he knows the people and they are loyal to him, but at Riverrun? Impossible.

Not to mention Catelyn (and Robb) stayed at Riverrun until after the war. Catelyn first came to Winterfell with Robb afterwards, and found Jon already there with a wet nurse. If they're supposed to be twins (and that wouldn't be a good idea because see above), how is one already at Winterfell, while the other travels there with the mother afterwards? If they're not meant to be twins it's completely impossible as Robb and Jon are less than a year apart which means she could not possibly give birth to Jon, who'd be brought to Winterfell on his own, and then a few months later to Robb. Nobody would swallow that story.

And re: Ned's misplaced trust - true, he's too trusting. But when it comes to Jon's parentage he had never trusted anybody, unless you believe Jon is Wylla's son (as he told Robert). It's not really surprising he doesn't trust Catelyn, either. Now, if I were him, I'd confide in Catelyn later, when I got to know her better, but as I said, when she first arrived to Winterfell they'd barely spent a fortnight together and were complete strangers.

[SeanF]

Ned trusts a lot of people, even when he knows he shouldn't; it's not that Cat is untrustworthy overall. No, I think it's summed up in the scene in the Black Cells. I don't have AGoT on me right now so this is paraphrased but essentially he's wondering about parents and what they'll do for their children, and after wondering what he himself would do thinks something along the lines of "More to the point, what would Catelyn do, in a choice between Jon and the children of her body?"

Harboring a child of Rhaegar puts the whole family at risk. Ned is willing to accept that because Jon is his sister's child, his own blood. Jon is nothing to Catelyn; if she thought it would be safer for Robb if this half-Targ nephew was turned in, odds are she'd do it.

And even if she doesn't, much as it's awful for both Cat and Jon, her dislike of him actually helps the ruse. It's far more believable for a wife, in this world, to resent her husband's bastard son, not become a loving stepmother. Especially since Jon's age shows he was conceived around the same time as Robb, meaning Ned was either unfaithful and is now compounding that, or a painful reminder that he would have preferred someone else to her but had no choices.

I agree. By sharing the secret with Catelyn, he'd be putting her at risk of torture and death. And he'd be putting his own children at risk of torture and death. Even if Catelyn could withstand being put to the question in the Black Cells, she'd surely talk if, say, Sansa was threatened with torture in front of her.