Emeralds

[J. Stargaryen]

You did an impressive job, J. Stargaryen.

I think the eggs in "sapphires big as eggs" could be a hint connected to Egg, the name under which Aegon V hid his Targaryen identity. The "sapphires big as eggs" could refer to Jon, who also uses a name to hide his Targaryen identity.

I believe Dany will meet Stannis on the Blue Fork, and win and this results her pursuing the Northmen to WF which is where she meets Jon who reveals his heritage.

I love that interpretation, the flames representing three monarchs with claims to House Targaryen.

Thanks, Fire Eater!

You know, the "sapphires big as eggs" line was the one that led to Yolkboy and I collaborating on the sapphires thread. If I recall correctly, we were thinking it was (f)Aegon though.

Though Yolkboy did come up with most of the interpretations re: sapphires, that one was actually mine. The gist of the original interpretation was that, since sapphires = secrets/lies/deception (especially tied to identity, it seems), the line could be interpreted as: secrets/lies as big as Aegon, or; Aegon('s identity) is a big lie. Of course, the same is true, and could be said, of Jon.

I definitely think GRRM has set up a big battle/major event to take place on the Blue Fork of the Trident. I was assuming Jon Snow would be involved somehow, but maybe not. Though I did suppose that Dany ought to be involved, since she dreamt she was Rhaegar fighting the Usurper's dogs on the Trident, except on dragon back.

Though my OP hypothesizes that the 'sapphire dynasty' will be led by Jon Snow, I do think it's possible that it could be (f)Aegon instead. After all, if sapphires do mean secrets/lies/deception with ties to identity, it would certainly be fitting for (f)Aegon Targaryen's dynasty to be represented by the blue gemstone.

Of course, once again, the same could be said of Jon Snow, especially if he rules via Robb's will as a Stark, instead of as a Targaryen.

ETA: Wrt to the "sapphires big as eggs" interpretation that you and I both came to – that is, recognizing the significance of egg = Aegon – I had taken it for granted that it was included in the sapphire OP, but now I realize that it's not. I'm not sure why it was omitted. Anyhow, I think it speaks well of the conclusion that you and I were both able to reach it independently. At least, I always take it as a good sign when multiple people recognize the same symbolism. :)

[Alia of the knife]

Thanks, Fire Eater!

You know, the "sapphires big as eggs" line was the one that led to Yolkboy and I collaborating on the sapphires thread. If I recall correctly, we were thinking it was (f)Aegon though.

Though Yolkboy did come up with most of the interpretations re: sapphires, that one was actually mine. The gist of the original interpretation was that, since sapphires = secrets/lies/deception (especially tied to identity, it seems), the line could be interpreted as: secrets/lies as big as Aegon, or; Aegon('s identity) is a big lie. Of course, the same is true, and could be said, of Jon.

I definitely think GRRM has set up a big battle/major event to take place on the Blue Fork of the Trident. I was assuming Jon Snow would be involved somehow, but maybe not. Though I did suppose that Dany ought to be involved, since she dreamt she was Rhaegar, fighting the Usurper's dogs on the Trident, except on dragon back.

Though my OP hypothesizes that the 'sapphire dynasty' will be led by Jon Snow, I do think it's possible that it could be (f)Aegon instead. After all, if sapphires do mean secrets/lies/deception with ties to identity, it would certainly be fitting for (f)Aegon Targaryen's dynasty to be represented by the blue gemstone.

Of course, once again, the same could be said of Jon Snow, especially if he rules via Robb's will as a Stark, instead of as a Targaryen.

Since I think Dany is likely to slay Aegon, I think the sapphires as a symbolism for Jon could be the same symbolism as his being tPtwP ~ a Prince whose life was spared with a promise with his idenity hidden by lies and deception who took a secret name.

Jon is the Muadib of this tale.

[J. Stargaryen]

Since I think Dany is likely to slay Aegon, I think the sapphires as a symbolism for Jon could be the same symbolism as his being tPtwP ~ a Prince whose life was spared with a promise with his idenity hidden by lies and deception who took a secret name.

Jon is the Muadib of this tale.

I do think Jon is the more likely candidate to end up as king, but I just don't rule out what would seem to me like a very Martin-esque possibility -- that (f)Aegon ends up as king, while the real Targaryens, Jon and Dany, end up without the throne for one reason or another. Also, after reading TPatQ, I began to wonder if (f)Aegon might not have a similar arc to Aegon II; i.e., being badly injured/burnt and being off stage for much of the action, only to finally emerge near the end and "win."

To that end, I could even possibly see Jon forgoing his claim in favor of (f)Aegon provided he marry Sansa as his queen. With the three of them agreeing to keep (f)Aegon's true identity as a Blackfyre a secret. In fact, at the moment – and the gods know this is subject to change – but I consider that my 2nd most likely endgame scenario.

Regarding Jon being tPtwP, I might have found something kind of interesting, which I will probably be posting in the next couple of days. :)

[Alia of the knife]

I do think Jon is the more likely candidate to end up as king, but I just don't rule out what would seem to me like a very Martin-esque possibility -- that (f)Aegon ends up as king, while the real Targaryens, Jon and Dany, end up without the throne for one reason or another. Also, after reading TPatQ, I began to wonder if (f)Aegon might not have a similar arc to Aegon II; i.e., being badly injured/burnt and being off stage for much of the action, only to finally emerge near the end and "win."

To that end, I could even possibly see Jon forgoing his claim in favor of (f)Aegon provided he marry Sansa as his queen. With the three of them agreeing to keep (f)Aegon's true identity as a Blackfyre a secret. In fact, at the moment and the gods know this is subject to change but I consider that my 2nd most likely endgame scenario.

Regarding Jon being tPtwP, I might have found something kind of interesting, which I will probably be posting in the next couple of days. :)

It's funny because I had sort of the same thing as a second scenario.

I always thought that Jon was supposed to be Aegons great general and protector had they grown up as brother as I speculated Aegon may have been sickly but wise.

My third scenario is that it would play out like the Bloodraven/Sheira Seastar/Bittersteele conflict, but with himself, Arya, and Aegon.

A "brother" he loved: Robb

A brother he hated: Aegon

A woman he desired: Arya, (whom Ned said would marry a king and rule his castle).

And I can't wait for your thread: )

[J. Stargaryen]

As I've mentioned here and a few other places, my most likely endgame scenario sees Jon becoming king as a Stark, via Robb's will. While there are plenty of others, including the likes of Fire Eater, who see him ruling as a Targaryen.

One reason that Jon Stark makes more sense thematically, imo, – as opposed to Jon Targaryen – is that he's already been the dragon king. In fact, his life began as the king of the Targaryen dynasty. (Or he became king shortly after he was born, depending on the exact timing of his birth in relation to the Sack.) Thematically, I think it then follows that if he is to end up as the king it should be as a Stark.

A Song of Ice and Fire.

[Angstasia]

As I've mentioned here and a few other places, my most likely endgame scenario sees Jon becoming king as a Stark, via Robb's will. While there are plenty of others, including the likes of Fire Eater, who see him ruling as a Targaryen.

One reason that Jon Stark makes more sense thematically, imo, – as opposed to Jon Targaryen – is that he's already been the dragon king. In fact, his life began as the king of the Targaryen dynasty. (Or he became king shortly after he was born, depending on the exact timing of his birth in relation to the Sack.) Thematically, I think it then follows that if he is to end up as the king it should be as a Stark.

A Song of Ice and Fire.

As a Targaryen Jon would have the baggage of Maegor the Cruel and Baelor and Aerys, even Rhaegar (the whole Rickard, Brandon, Lyanna episode) and Daenerys who is going down a very dark path. But as a Stark Jon would have more political capital than as a Targaryen. He can be a unifying figure for Westeros after Daenerys, FAegon and Stannis have killed each other off. An idea of Tze's that changed my perspective posited that the center of power in Westeros could shift towards the North and Winterfell with King's Landing destroyed and winter ruling over Westeros.

I like your observations about the Red, Green and Blue Forks of the Trident and their connection with Targaryen, Baratheon and Stark houses very much.

[J. Stargaryen]

As a Targaryen Jon would have the baggage of Maegor the Cruel and Baelor and Aerys, even Rhaegar (the whole Rickard, Brandon, Lyanna episode) and Daenerys who is going down a very dark path. But as a Stark Jon would have more political capital than as a Targaryen. He can be a unifying figure for Westeros after Daenerys, FAegon and Stannis have killed each other off. An idea of Tze's that changed my perspective posited that the center of power in Westeros could shift towards the North and Winterfell with King's Landing destroyed and winter ruling over Westeros.

I like your observations about the Red, Green and Blue Forks of the Trident and their connection with Targaryen, Baratheon and Stark houses very much.

I've argued a similar case in the past. If Dany comes to Westeros and lays waste to it, people might not be so eager to willingly support the Targaryens anymore.

Glad you liked the stuff about the Trident. That was my favorite part too. Rhaegar dying on the Green Fork, Torrhen Stark kneeling on the Red, and some very strong, though under-recognized, R+L=J symbolism occuring on the Blue Fork in the form of Tristifer IV Mudd's sepulcher. (Seriously people, read that link in the OP if you haven't.) On top of it being a huge R+L=J metaphor, it's the location where Robb told Catelyn he was legitimizing Jon as a Stark, and making him his heir.

You know, I think butterbumps! has a thread about the capitol moving from KL, presumably after it's destroyed, to Harrenhal.

[Fire Eater]

@J.Stargaryen

The sapphire worn by Tobho Mott was seen when Ned met Gendry, who had royal heritage unknown to him.There was no lie he was given about it.

Secrets are worth more than silver and sapphires

Tonight it was rich black velvet with high leather boots and a wide belt with a silver buckle. A heavy silver chain was looped around his neck

A description of Benjen's wardrobe

He pulled the heavy silver Hand clasp from his pocket

As Hand, Ned simply wore a silver Hand clasp compared to the gold chain

And of course the extra silver you [Catelyn] were so kind to promise

silver bracelets on her [sansa's] wrists

Sansa wore a gown of silvery satin

His [bran's] surcoat was new, dark grey wool with silver buttons and a heavy silver pin

Along with the sapphires, silver is associated with the Starks. With sapphires and silver being connected with secrets, I think fits Jon who has Stark heritage.

As a Targaryen Jon would have the baggage of Maegor the Cruel and Baelor and Aerys, even Rhaegar (the whole Rickard, Brandon, Lyanna episode) and Daenerys who is going down a very dark path. But as a Stark Jon would have more political capital than as a Targaryen. He can be a unifying figure for Westeros after Daenerys, FAegon and Stannis have killed each other off. An idea of Tze's that changed my perspective posited that the center of power in Westeros could shift towards the North and Winterfell with King's Landing destroyed and winter ruling over Westeros.

I like your observations about the Red, Green and Blue Forks of the Trident and their connection with Targaryen, Baratheon and Stark houses very much.

My argument against that would that patrilineal system of Westeros would require Jon to take his father's name. Along with Maegor, Baleor and Aerys there is also Jaehaerys I &II, Daeron II, Aegon V, and a few other good/mediocre kings. Rhaegar is also still fondly remembered by lords and smallfolk alike. The Targaryens have still ruled the IT for close to 300 years. A Targaryen would easier for the smallfolk and the lords than a Stark due to residual loyalty and tradition. Jon being a Targaryen would be a matter of convenience.

[Alia of the knife]

@J.Stargaryen

The sapphire worn by Tobho Mott was seen when Ned met Gendry, who had royal heritage unknown to him.There was no lie he was given about it.

Secrets are worth more than silver and sapphires

Tonight it was rich black velvet with high leather boots and a wide belt with a silver buckle. A heavy silver chain was looped around his neck

A description of Benjen's wardrobe

He pulled the heavy silver Hand clasp from his pocket

As Hand, Ned simply wore a silver Hand clasp compared to the gold chain

And of course the extra silver you [Catelyn] were so kind to promise

silver bracelets on her [sansa's] wrists

Sansa wore a gown of silvery satin

His [bran's] surcoat was new, dark grey wool with silver buttons and a heavy silver pin

Along with the sapphires, silver is associated with the Starks. With sapphires and silver being connected with secrets, I think fits Jon who has Stark heritage.

My argument against that would that patrilineal system of Westeros would require Jon to take his father's name. Along with Maegor, Baleor and Aerys there is also Jaehaerys I &II, Daeron II, Aegon V, and a few other good/mediocre kings. Rhaegar is also still fondly remembered by lords and smallfolk alike. The Targaryens have still ruled the IT for close to 300 years. A Targaryen would easier for the smallfolk and the lords than a Stark due to residual loyalty and tradition. Jon being a Targaryen would be a matter of convenience.

I tend to agree with this.

The thing that both enabled and disabled the Targaryens to rule all the families and former kingdoms, was their neutrality and exclusively, or "apartness," though it may have also generated some underlying resentment as well.

The other families of Westeros dont have the political, lineage clout to rule the rest as most all of them were descended from kings.

Whatever political ambitions Rickard might have had beyond becoming more of a presence in the South, was perhaps to secede from the rest of the Kingdom as Robb did.

Also love the association of sapphires and silver with the Starks.

At least in Martins universe, silver works for the wolves.

[Lyse Stark]

I tend to agree with this.

The thing that both enabled and disabled the Targaryens to rule all the families and former kingdoms, was their neutrality and exclusively, or "apartness," though it may have also generated some underlying resentment as well.

The other families of Westeros dont have the political, lineage clout to rule the rest as most all of them were descended from kings.

Whatever political ambitions Rickard might have had beyond becoming more of a presence in the South, was perhaps to secede from the rest of the Kingdom as Robb did.

Also love the association of sapphires and silver with the Starks.

At least in Martins universe, silver works for the wolves.

And I also believe that Jon would keep his name because it connects him with the land of Westeros, and a Targaryen name would feel alien to him. He would also end the Targaryen practice of incest because of his faith in the Old Gods, and he abhors it, especially after seeing what Craster did.

[J. Stargaryen]

@J.Stargaryen

The sapphire worn by Tobho Mott was seen when Ned met Gendry, who had royal heritage unknown to him.There was no lie he was given about it.

Secrets are worth more than silver and sapphires

Tonight it was rich black velvet with high leather boots and a wide belt with a silver buckle. A heavy silver chain was looped around his neck

A description of Benjen's wardrobe

He pulled the heavy silver Hand clasp from his pocket

As Hand, Ned simply wore a silver Hand clasp compared to the gold chain

And of course the extra silver you [Catelyn] were so kind to promise

silver bracelets on her [sansa's] wrists

Sansa wore a gown of silvery satin

His [bran's] surcoat was new, dark grey wool with silver buttons and a heavy silver pin

Along with the sapphires, silver is associated with the Starks. With sapphires and silver being connected with secrets, I think fits Jon who has Stark heritage.

My argument against that would that patrilineal system of Westeros would require Jon to take his father's name. Along with Maegor, Baleor and Aerys there is also Jaehaerys I &II, Daeron II, Aegon V, and a few other good/mediocre kings. Rhaegar is also still fondly remembered by lords and smallfolk alike. The Targaryens have still ruled the IT for close to 300 years. A Targaryen would easier for the smallfolk and the lords than a Stark due to residual loyalty and tradition. Jon being a Targaryen would be a matter of convenience.

Regarding Tobho Mott, there was a secret regarding Gendry's identity, hence the sapphire. Notice the parallel with the emerald Cersei is wearing in AGoT; i.e., both are the size of "pigeon's eggs." Gendry and Joff are both quasi-royal bastards. Gendry actually has royal blood, hence the sapphire (blue) in his case. Joff's bastardy constitutes a usurpation, hence the emerald.

As for silver, those few passages aren't convincing to me. In AGoT alone, there are 174 instances of the word occurring. The first seven in Daenerys I, btw. And I'd say that silver is most closely associated with Targaryen hair in ASoIaF. Btw, what's Dany's horse called again? :)

So, if I were trying to connect silver to Jon, I'd do it through his Targaryen side. In fact, that might even make that line read better. Sapphires (maybe an analog for blue roses) and silver (most strongly associated with Targaryen hair).

As for the last paragraph, there could be a few different reasons Jon ends up as a Stark rather than a Targaryen. I don't buy for a second that Jon will be forced by convention to choose Targaryen over Stark. We've been told in the series that a child can take the name of the mother's House under certain circumstances. And that's even assuming that we need to consider that angle. It's possible that Jon's true identity never becomes widely known.

Jon ruling with the Stark name gives us the best of both words; House Stark rules in the end, but so does the blood of the dragon. With Jon as king, the Targaryen succession would remain intact, even if it was a secret.

[Fire Eater]

As for silver, those few passages aren't convincing to me. In AGoT alone, there are 174 instances of the word occurring. The first seven in Daenerys I, btw. And I'd say that silver is most closely associated with Targaryen hair in ASoIaF. Btw, what's Dany's horse called again? :)

So, if I were trying to connect silver to Jon, I'd do it through his Targaryen side. In fact, that might even make that line read better. Sapphires (maybe an analog for blue roses) and silver (most strongly associated with Targaryen hair).

The Targaryens have silver connections as well I know.

And for my silver prince.

Connington thinking of Rhaegar

The red priest outside seemed to think Volantis should fight for this silver queen

Dany is referred to as the silver queen throughout ADwD, and once in AFfC

This shows the Targaryens and Starks having something in common, and that may be hint at another connection they have: Jon.

As for the last paragraph, there could be a few different reasons Jon ends up as a Stark, rather than a Targaryen. I don't buy for a second that Jon will be forced by convention to choose Targaryen over Stark. We've been told in the series that a child can take the name of the mother's House under certain circumstances.

I think those circumstances are only if the child's mother is the reigning Dornish lady or heiress to her house as Doran's mother was, or if the father was common-born without a surname like the Mormonts girls. Jon's father was royalty, that is as highborn as one can get, and his mother wasn't Dornish or the heir to her house. It wouldn't be choosing Targaryen over Stark but acknowledging his Targaryen heritage. Jon is practical enough to know that the lords of Westeros could more easily stomach a Targaryen on the IT than a Stark. Choosing the name Stark would be showing a bias towards that house, and encourage whispers of actually being Ned's bastard trying to usurp the IT.

[J. Stargaryen]

The Targaryens have silver connections as well I know.

And for my silver prince.

Connington thinking of Rhaegar

The red priest outside seemed to think Volantis should fight for this silver queen

Dany is referred to as the silver queen throughout ADwD, and once in AFfC

This shows the Targaryens and Starks having something in common, and that may be hint at another connection they have: Jon.

I think those circumstances are only if the child's mother is the reigning Dornish lady or heiress to her house as Doran's mother was, or if the father was common-born without a surname like the Mormonts girls. Jon's father was royalty, that is as highborn as one can get, and his mother wasn't Dornish or the heir to her house. It wouldn't be choosing Targaryen over Stark but acknowledging his Targaryen heritage. Jon is practical enough to know that the lords of Westeros could more easily stomach a Targaryen on the IT than a Stark. Choosing the name Stark would be showing a bias towards that house, and encourage whispers of actually being Ned's bastard trying to usurp the IT.

I don't think you've demonstrated any sort of meaningful correlation between Stark and silver. At least not the way it exists with the Targaryens. So to say that it is something the Targs have in common with the Starks is confusing to me.

Jon's royal power base is, at least initially, likely to derive from Robb's will, which made him heir to the North and Riverlands, as a Stark. So I don't see any good reason for him to 'turn' Targaryen on the very people who would crown him. And, as has been mentioned up thread, it may be that Westeros has had its fill of dragon lords by the time the series is drawing to a close. Not to mention, in order for Jon to take the name Targaryen, he'd have to prove that he's Rhaegar's trueborn son.

The Starks are about as ancient and noble a House as exists in Westeros, so I don't buy that the people of Westeros would necessarily prefer the Targaryens to them. The southron lords might not like the idea of being ruled by a Stark at first, but they'll start to like it if Jon saves them from the White Walkers. They might even start to rethink their bias against bastards if they think a bastard saved them from wintery death.

I fanboy the Targaryens almost as much as anyone, but I think the House and name will die off by series end, though the blood of the dragon will live on.

[Alia of the knife]

I definitely think that for Northerners, who Jons mother is will be more important than who the father is. And that it is a Stark female will be more significant as I believe the north has always considered the starks still their "kings."

(In ancient Scottish tradition, the women did not take their husbands name until the nineteenth century, but kept their own clan names, while the children incorporated both names).

But for the total reunification of the seven kingdoms, bringing the North back into the fold, I think it may have to go a step further and be unified for the generations through offspring, which as unpopular as the notion is, Jon may still need to marry one of his cousins.

Or, if Jon is king in the north, taking Sansa or Arya to wife, and "Aegon" is still in the picture, ruling the south, then Aegon may still have to marry the other Stark princess, so that the dragons will from then on have a legitimate claim on the north through bloodline rather than beyond sheer conquest and vice versa.

In that way it resembles more the marriage of royal alliances as in history than the exclusive incestous Targaryen marriages, (though certainly in real history consanguinity between cousins could be an issue), royals still looked to other royals for their partners.

[Fire Eater]

I don't think you've demonstrated any sort of meaningful correlation between Stark and silver. At least not the way it exists with the Targaryens. So to say that it is something the Targs have in common with the Starks is confusing to me.

The North has silver mines, and it goes in line of the Stark house color of grey compared to Lannister gold, and I don't think we've ever seen a Stark wear any gold at all in the series while Dany has a golden crown, and so did Viserys. She has worn gold.

.

Jon's royal power base is, at least initially, likely to derive from Robb's will, which made him heir to the North and Riverlands, as a Stark. So I don't see any good reason for him to 'turn' Targaryen on the very people who would crown him. And, as has been mentioned up thread, it may be that Westeros has had its fill of dragon lords by the time the series is drawing to a close. Not to mention, in order for Jon to take the name Targaryen, he'd have to prove that he's Rhaegar's trueborn son.

The Starks are about as ancient and noble a House as exists in Westeros, so I don't buy that the people of Westeros would necessarily prefer the Targaryens to them. The southron lords might not like the idea of being ruled by a Stark at first, but they'll start to like it if Jon saves them from the White Walkers. They might even start to rethink their bias against bastards if they think a bastard saved them from wintery death.

I fanboy the Targaryens almost as much as anyone, but I think the House and name will die off by series end, though the blood of the dragon will live on.

Jon's royal power base will also come from the Targaryen supporters, which is a multitude of Southron lords. I don't think he would take the crown of the KitN unless he revealed R+L=J at the same time since he won't accept a crown as member of the NW, and revealing both at the same time would make him the undisputed ruler of both realms.

Westeros has had dragon lords that were worse than Dany, like Maegor, and there was the Dance of Dragons which more and larger dragons, but the house still continued to rule. The Targaryens also benefit from residual loyalty. Jon will prove who he is Rhaegar's son otherwise, what is the point of R+L=J? Besides, King Arthur had to prove he was Uther's son as well by pulling the sword from the stone, and I think Jon may need to perform an act that Dany will likely say only a Targaryen can do, mounting a dragon without a horn which is generally believed to be only for those with blood of the dragon.

Jon choosing to be a Stark instead of a Targaryen would be IMO tantamount to rejecting his Targaryen heritage instead of reconciling with and accepting it.

[Lyse Stark]

The North has silver mines, and it goes in line of the Stark house color of grey compared to Lannister gold, and I don't think we've ever seen a Stark wear any gold at all in the series while Dany has a golden crown, and so did Viserys. She has worn gold.

Jon's royal power base will also come from the Targaryen supporters, which is a multitude of Southron lords. I don't think he would take the crown of the KitN unless he revealed R+L=J at the same time since he won't accept a crown as member of the NW, and revealing both at the same time would make him the undisputed ruler of both realms.

Westeros has had dragon lords that were worse than Dany, like Maegor, and there was the Dance of Dragons which more and larger dragons, but the house still continued to rule. The Targaryens also benefit from residual loyalty. Jon will prove who he is Rhaegar's son otherwise, what is the point of R+L=J? Besides, King Arthur had to prove he was Uther's son as well by pulling the sword from the stone, and I think Jon may need to perform an act that Dany will likely say only a Targaryen can do, mounting a dragon without a horn which is generally believed to be only for those with blood of the dragon.

Jon choosing to be a Stark instead of a Targaryen would be IMO tantamount to rejecting his Targaryen heritage instead of reconciling with and accepting it.

And Jon was raised in the culture of the North, so he may reject some Targaryen practices that he feels are out of touch with reality, like the practice of brother-sister marriage, which in his opinion prevented many useful marriage alliances with various noble houses, and I said earlier that Jon finds incest abhorrent, especially after what he saw in Craster's Keep. He is a follower of the Old Gods, and we all know the 3 taboos they prohibits; kinslaying, incest and violations of guest right.

[Ser Creighton]

We did the sapphire thread together. I found this one on my own, later on.

So

Rubies

Sapphires

Emeralds

You mentioned the color Black, Stones Jet and dragon glass

And of course Purple but I don't remember who did it and it was either betrayal or toxic/poison. Early in thrones Arya and blue and purple flowers she gives to Ned. The purple flowers being toxic and of course blue flowers.

[J. Stargaryen]

The North has silver mines, and it goes in line of the Stark house color of grey compared to Lannister gold, and I don't think we've ever seen a Stark wear any gold at all in the series while Dany has a golden crown, and so did Viserys. She has worn gold.

I agree with the connection between the North and the actual metal silver. In your first post about it, you mentioned Sansa's gown of "silvery satin," so I thought also you meant to include the color. If we're going to do that, then we have so many more Targaryen-silver connections: most prominently their hair, Dany's horse, Rhaegar's harp, the dragon Silverwing, etc. So, while Dany has worn a crown of gold, she always wears a 'crown' of silver. Except when she burns it off. :)

But, maybe the instead of arguing over who has what silver connections, we should wonder why they both have any? Perhaps it's just a subtle way to reinforce the (formerly) walking, talking Stark-Targ alliance, Jon Snow.

---

One thing I wanted to mention about sapphires is their connection to Brienne, who hails from the Sapphire Isle, and was even the blue knight in Renly's Rainbow Guard. Once he died, she fell into the service of Lady Stark. By the end of ACoK, the book in which Brienne was introduced, she'd been dispatched by Catelyn with the Kingslayer on a mission to trade him for the Stark girls. Which has more or less been her primary task ever since.

Part of the problem finding the Stark girls, though she's only been seeking Sansa since she left KL, is that they've hidden themselves using false identities. And I wonder if that isn't really what the sapphires are telling us. It fits with Jon, it fits with Sansa, and it fits with Arya too.

Jon's royal power base will also come from the Targaryen supporters, which is a multitude of Southron lords. I don't think he would take the crown of the KitN unless he revealed R+L=J at the same time since he won't accept a crown as member of the NW, and revealing both at the same time would make him the undisputed ruler of both realms.

It is? Like who? I see the Vale supporting Jon for sure, just like they wanted to support the previous King in the North, Robb Stark. So, we have the North, Riverlands and Vale supporting Jon as a Stark. Where is this overwhelming Targaryen Southron support even going to come from?

As for the rest, I'm not sure what you mean.

Westeros has had dragon lords that were worse than Dany, like Maegor, and there was the Dance of Dragons which more and larger dragons, but the house still continued to rule. The Targaryens also benefit from residual loyalty. Jon will prove who he is Rhaegar's son otherwise, what is the point of R+L=J? Besides, King Arthur had to prove he was Uther's son as well by pulling the sword from the stone, and I think Jon may need to perform an act that Dany will likely say only a Targaryen can do, mounting a dragon without a horn which is generally believed to be only for those with blood of the dragon.

Jon choosing to be a Stark instead of a Targaryen would be IMO tantamount to rejecting his Targaryen heritage instead of reconciling with and accepting it.

For the audience, would be the answer supposing that R+L=J doesn't become public. In which case he would rule as a Stark. Or what if it does, but nobody can say for sure whether or not he's legit? Yet he has Robb's will legitimizing him as Ned's son, and the backing of the North, Riverlands, and (likely) Vale supporting it. In which case he would rule as a Stark.

I'm not saying that there doesn't exist a path for him to rule as a Targaryen, flying a three-headed dragon banner, red on black. But, I think there are fewer obstacles in the way of him ruling as a Stark.

I've never believed that Jon would completely neglect his Targaryen heritage, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll rule as a member of that House. For example, a few days ago I suggested the possibility that he takes the regnal name, Aegon VII of House Stark. Assuming that (f)Aegon sits the throne before him.

It has a Henry Tudor feel to it, since he ruled as the seventh Henry, yet was the first monarch from House Tudor. (Though Henry was his actual birth name.)

[J. Stargaryen]

So

Rubies

Sapphires

Emeralds

You mentioned the color Black, Stones Jet and dragon glass

And of course Purple but I don't remember who did it and it was either betrayal or toxic/poison. Early in thrones Arya and blue and purple flowers she gives to Ned. The purple flowers being toxic and of course blue flowers.

Then it turned out the purple flowers were called poison kisses, and Arya got a rash on her arms. Sansa would have thought that might have taught her a lesson, but Arya laughed about it, and the next day she rubbed mud all over her arms like some ignorant bog woman just because her friend Mycah told her it would stop the itching. She had bruises on her arms and shoulders too, dark purple welts and faded green-and-yellow splotches, Sansa had seen them when her sister undressed for sleep. How she had gotten those only the seven gods knew.

- AGoT, Sansa I

I wasn't aware of a purple-poison thread, but that's interesting, and this passage supports it.

[Lyse Stark]

- AGoT, Sansa I

I wasn't aware of a purple-poison thread, but that's interesting, and this passage supports it.

And don't forget the hairnet Sansa wears, which had the Strangler disguised as amythests on it. Olenna Redwyne removes one from it and put it in Joffrey's Arbor Red.