Emeralds

[J. Stargaryen]

And don't forget the hairnet Sansa wears, which had the Strangler disguised as amythests on it. Olenna Redwyne removes one from it and put it in Joffrey's Arbor Gold.

Exactly. That's pretty obvious too. I think I used most of my available brain cells replying to FE. And I was already running low. ;)

[Ser Creighton]

- AGoT, Sansa I

I wasn't aware of a purple-poison thread, but that's interesting, and this passage supports it.

The fake poison amethysts Sansa wore as well. I thought the other more interesting for this thread as it's two colors and ties to blue. I don't know if there is a thread for that, but I was looking at colors last night. Braavos would appear to be a bad place it's also home to the house of black and white, and I am trying to figure that one out. Amethysts are seen in the books but it rear compared to the others. But purple is used heavily. Dany and Arya being around it a lot.

One thing to look at is Jojen and Meera swearing to bran.

Earth and Water but green is mentioned. Black, blue and Jojen in green I thought it odd he mentioned Jojens color there.

Bronze and Iron. Interesting enough Bronze can be green and often is and Iron can be black and is often described as black in the books Black Iron. Green and Black.

Finally Ice and Fire, Blue and Red.

Trying to apply it to your trident theory, but it doesn't work for the red fork right?

3 parts, 3 forks, three battles, well sort of. Maybe the only color that matter in the first part are blue and green or maybe that's a hint about the meaning of earth. J. slap me I am seeing in 3 again. Blue is also used twice like you mentioned, that's made me think of it. Well sort of, water and ice. Though that works well as one was in a summer or spring and the other would take place in winter.

Could be Bran in a cave by the river with a significance on Jojen.

Black and Green= Tyrion

Jon Ice and fire.

Or it could be 6 people like in the seven 3 men 3 women and the Stranger, death, maybe the others.

[J. Stargaryen]

The fake poison amethysts Sansa wore as well. I thought the other more interesting for this thread as it's two colors and ties to blue. I don't know if there is a thread for that, but I was looking at colors last night. Braavos would appear to be a bad place it's also home to the house of black and white, and I am trying to figure that one out. Amethysts are seen in the books but it rear compared to the others. But purple is used heavily. Dany and Arya being around it a lot.

One thing to look at is Jojen and Meera swearing to bran.

Earth and Water but green is mentioned. Black, blue and Jojen in green I thought it odd he mentioned Jojens color there.

Bronze and Iron. Interesting enough Bronze can be green and often is and Iron can be black and is often described as black in the books Black Iron. Green and Black.

Finally Ice and Fire, Blue and Red.

Trying to apply it to your trident theory, but it doesn't work for the red fork right?

3 parts, 3 forks, three battles, well sort of. Maybe the only color that matter in the first part are blue and green or maybe that's a hint about the meaning of earth. J. slap me I am seeing in 3 again. Blue is also used twice like you mentioned, that's made me think of it. Well sort of, water and ice. Though that works well as one was in a summer or spring and the other would take place in winter.

What do you mean? Torrhen Stark knelt and gave up his crown to Aegon I there.

Can I slap you three times? :)

ETA: Is this what you mean about the Reeds' oath?

“I swear it by earth and water,” said the boy in green.

“I swear it by bronze and iron,” his sister said.

“We swear it by ice and fire,” they finished together.”

It's also interesting, I suppose, that bronze can be green, and iron certainly black.

ETA2: Wrt to the House of Black and White, it's probably worth pointing out the Stark and Targaryen sigils: A grey wolf, racing across white, and; a three-headed dragon, red on black.

What's interesting about that, is it sort of plays into the 'Jon is the anti-christ' theories, since the background colors of Stark and Targaryen are combined at the HoBaW, which houses the gods of death.

[H Reed]

The blue & emerald connection to the rise of a future stark dynasty gives Briene's character a much clearer purpose. From the sapphire isle, Briene the blue (she wore the blue cloak in Renly's rainbow guard) has spent her story line seeking to save part of the stark dynasty (Arya and Sansa) under oath to cat stark. She defeated Loras (green) to earn her kings guard position (blue overcomes green) and is spending a lot of time in the blue fork area. Some larger purpose to her actions?

[Lyse Stark]

What do you mean? Torrhen Stark knelt and gave up his crown to Aegon I there.

Can I slap you three times? :)

ETA: Is this what you mean about the Reeds' oath?

It's also interesting, I suppose, that bronze can be green, and iron certainly black.

ETA2: Wrt to the House of Black and White, it's probably worth pointing out the Stark and Targaryen sigils: A grey wolf, racing across white, and; a three-headed dragon, red on black.

What's interesting about that, is it sort of plays into the 'Jon is the anti-christ' theories, since the background colors of Stark and Targaryen are combined at the HoBaW, which houses the gods of death.

And blue and red make purple,as a matter of fact. fire and ice makes water and water vapor.

[J. Stargaryen]

The blue & emerald connection to the rise of a future stark dynasty gives Briene's character a much clearer purpose. From the sapphire isle, Briene the blue (she wore the blue cloak in Renly's rainbow guard) has spent her story line seeking to save part of the stark dynasty (Arya and Sansa) under oath to cat stark. She defeated Loras (green) to earn her kings guard position (blue overcomes green) and is spending a lot of time in the blue fork area. Some larger purpose to her actions?

Just to clarify, it was Ser Guyard Morrigen who wore the green in Renly's Rainbow Guard. Though obviously green is one of the Tyrell colors.

And blue and red make purple,as a matter of fact. fire and ice makes water and water vapor.

I think it was Tze who noted that, assuming the AAr prophecy originates in the east, they might have mistaken snow and mist/vapor for salt and smoke.

As for the the red + blue = purple, one thing that I've been kicking around is the eye color of the Valyrians and Others. It's pretty crackpot, but if the Others had a red-eyed counterpart – AA maybe? – to reproduce with, it's possible their offspring – terrible half-human children? – would have purple eyes. Now I know that is not how genetics work, but we're talking about magical races here anyway, so I don't think it hurts to consider stuff like this.

To further crack this pot, from the AGoT Appendix:

The Old Dynasty

HOUSE TARGARYEN

The Targaryens are the blood of the dragon, descended from the high lords of the ancient Freehold of Valyria, their heritage proclaimed in a striking (some say inhuman) beauty, with lilac or indigo or violet eyes and hair of silver-gold or platinum white.

[Fire Eater]

It is? Like who? I see the Vale supporting Jon for sure, just like they wanted to support the previous King in the North, Robb Stark. So, we have the North, Riverlands and Vale supporting Jon as a Stark. Where is this overwhelming Targaryen Southron support even going to come from?

As for the rest, I'm not sure what you mean.

The clans of Cracklaw Point, houses in the riverlands,Crownlands and the Reach that fought for the Targaryens.

For the audience, would be the answer supposing that R+L=J doesn't become public. In which case he would rule as a Stark. Or what if it does, but nobody can say for sure whether or not he's legit? Yet he has Robb's will legitimizing him as Ned's son, and the backing of the North, Riverlands, and (likely) Vale supporting it. In which case he would rule as a Stark.

I'm not saying that there doesn't exist a path for him to rule as a Targaryen, flying a three-headed dragon banner, red on black. But, I think there are fewer obstacles in the way of him ruling as a Stark.

I've never believed that Jon would completely neglect his Targaryen heritage, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll rule as a member of that House. For example, a few days ago I suggested the possibility that he takes the regnal name, Aegon VII of House Stark. Assuming that (f)Aegon sits the throne before him.

It has a Henry Tudor feel to it, since he ruled as the seventh Henry, yet was the first monarch from House Tudor. (Though Henry was his actual birth name.)

Actually, I think there are fewer obstacles ruling as a Targaryen, since the Targaryens traditionally ruled over the whole realm, which included the North. It is the rule of the Chekov's gun, and R+L=J wouldn't be put there unless it was going to contribute to the story somehow. If the Vale and the riverlands support Dany in the DoD 2.0, and that is likely, IMO, given the clues, then they would support Jon.

Henry Tudor didn't take the name of his mother's house, but his father's. Besides, Jon has a stronger parallel with King Arthur whom Henry tried to claim he was the incarnation of, and Arthur took his father's surname.

I think Jon would keep the name Ned gave him, but I don't think he would call himself Jon Stark to Dany if he is to reveal his heritage to her. As Joanna Lannister said, we all dream of things we can't have. Part of the shock of R+L=J is Jon realizing he could never become a Stark like he dreamed, because he is a Targaryen. In time, I think he will learn to accept his heritage, and that he is a Targaryen and embrace it like he did his Stark heritage.

I don't want to derail this thread anymore.

[J. Stargaryen]

The clans of Cracklaw Point, houses in the riverlands,Crownlands and the Reach that fought for the Targaryens.

Actually, I think there are fewer obstacles ruling as a Targaryen, since the Targaryens traditionally ruled over the whole realm, which included the North. It is the rule of the Chekov's gun, and R+L=J wouldn't be put there unless it was going to contribute to the story somehow. If the Vale and the riverlands support Dany in the DoD 2.0, and that is likely, IMO, given the clues, then they would support Jon.

Henry Tudor didn't take the name of his mother's house, but his father's. Besides, Jon has a stronger parallel with King Arthur whom Henry tried to claim he was the incarnation of, and Arthur took his father's surname.

I think Jon would keep the name Ned gave him, but I don't think he would call himself Jon Stark to Dany if he is to reveal his heritage to her. As Joanna Lannister said, we all dream of things we can't have. Part of the shock of R+L=J is Jon realizing he could never become a Stark like he dreamed, because he is a Targaryen. In time, I think he will learn to accept his heritage, and that he is a Targaryen and embrace it like he did his Stark heriage.

I don't want to derail this thread anymore.

Sorry, but you can't co-opt the Riverlands (part of Robb Stark's kingdom) into this alleged Targaryen power base for Jon.

It's completely fallacious to argue that R+L=J doesn't contribute to the story unless Jon rules as a Targaryen. In other words, there are plenty of ways for R+L=J to have an impact without Jon ruling as a Targaryen, Stark or even ruling at all.

As for the rest:

Lord Eddard Stark is my father. I will not forget him, no matter how many swords they give me.

- AGoT, Jon VIII

[H Reed]

J-star

Worth noting the colour of Renly's armour in the melee though - green.

Maybe foreshadowing another fight in which stark supporters overcomes what's left of the outgoing baratheon/tyrell rule.

Also, the contest is at bitterbridge - between the Blueburn and the Mander. (Any connection to the manderlys here? Another stark protector)

Great op by the way.

[Lyse Stark]

Or there is another way. I think Jon will combine the two name to create a totally new house, and this will be called either Stargaryen or Targarstark.

[J. Stargaryen]

J-star

Worth noting the colour of Renly's armour though - green.

Also, the melee in which she wins, is at bitterbridge - between the Blueburn and the Manderly.

Great op by the way.

See, I knew I should have went back and reread that part, but I took the shortcut and looked it up on the wiki. Glad you like the OP. Thanks.

ETA:

Maybe foreshadowing another fight in which stark supporters overcomes what's left of the outgoing baratheon/tyrell rule.

Exactly. And it fits really well when you consider that the Baratheon-Lannister's power base is tied to the Tyrells. That's a potentially really good catch in favor of the OP. Nice job.

Or there is another way. I think Jon will combine the two name to create a totally new house, and this will be called either Stargaryen or Targarstark.

I hope he doesn't combine the names. Stargaryen? :ack: If GRRM isn't more creative than me I'll be disappointed.

[Lyse Stark]

See, I knew I should have went back and reread that part, but I took the shortcut and looked it up on the wiki.

I hope he doesn't combine the names. Stargaryen? :ack: If GRRM isn't more creative than me I'll be disappointed.

Remember Dawn? The sword was made from a fallen star. And bleeding stars figure prominently in the Azor Ahai and PTWP prophecies. Also the Stark name has the word star in it, and the Targaryen name had the tar part at the beginning. If you add a s to the tar part you get star.

[J. Stargaryen]

Remember Dawn? The sword was made from a fallen star. And bleeding stars figure prominently in the Azor Ahai and PTWP prophecies. Also the Stark name has the word star in it, and the Targaryen name had the tar part at the beginning. If you add a s to the tar part you get star.

I have a thread about these exact same concepts here. The idea being that star is to Stark as day is to Dayne.

[Fire Eater]

Sorry, but you can't co-opt the Riverlands (part of Robb Stark's kingdom) into this alleged Targaryen power base for Jon.

It's completely fallacious to argue that R+L=J doesn't contribute to the story unless Jon rules as a Targaryen. In other words, there are plenty of ways for R+L=J to have an impact without Jon ruling as a Targaryen, Stark or even ruling at all.

As for the rest:

- AGoT, Jon VIII

R+L=J has to contribute to the story in an impacting way, and I don't think pure shock factor is a contribution. It means Jon is the rightful Targaryen heir, not Dany. Dany won't stand aside for a Stark, but a Targaryen.

Jon may think of Ned as his father in that he raised Jon, but similar to the way Ned thought of Jon Arryn as a second father. Being a Targaryen would be the more practical route, as there is more power in the name Targaryen on the IT than Stark, especially south of the Neck. The Northmen would still back him due to Robb's will, and his mother, and that he was raised by Ned in WF.

It had been carved in the likeness of a snarling wolf, with chips of garnet set into the eyes.

"Rubies [for the lion head pommel's eyes]," Lord Tywin said. "Garnets lack the fire."

As has been mentioned before, the wolf's head with the garnet eyes could mean that Jon is only of his Stark heritage with the wolf's head with eyes of lacking fire, or ice aspect. Lacking the fire could imply Jon's ignorance of his Targaryen heritage, or fire aspect.

[Steelcan]

Too much Red, Blue, and Green

Bad for Mass Effect fans :ack:

[Lyse Stark]

Too much Red, Blue, and Green

Bad for Mass Effect fans :ack:

Funny how similar Jon Snow is to Shepherd in that both are aware of the true threats, while the people who disregarded their warnings get caught up in petty squabble and politics until it's too late. And add to the fuck-up that is their life, they both died and were brought back, or in Jon's case is about to be resurrected. ;)

[J. Stargaryen]

R+L=J has to contribute to the story in an impacting way, and I don't think pure shock factor is a contribution. It means Jon is the rightful Targaryen heir, not Dany. Dany won't stand aside for a Stark, but a Targaryen.

Jon may think of Ned as his father in that he raised Jon, but similar to the way Ned thought of Jon Arryn as a second father. Being a Targaryen would be the more practical route, as there is more power in the name Targaryen on the IT than Stark, especially south of the Neck. The Northmen would still back him due to Robb's will, and his mother, and that he was raised by Ned in WF.

It had been carved in the likeness of a snarling wolf, with chips of garnet set into the eyes.

"Rubies [for the lion head pommel's eyes]," Lord Tywin said. "Garnets lack the fire."

As has been mentioned before, the wolf's head with the garnet eyes could mean that Jon is only of his Stark heritage with the wolf's head with eyes of lacking fire, or ice aspect. Lacking the fire could imply Jon's ignorance of his Targaryen heritage, or fire aspect.

A straw man.

I think the beauty of Jon ruling as a Stark is that he's the true heir to the IT and blood of the dragon, – AND – it would provide a satisfying conclusion to the arc of House Stark. It's not really much of an arc if they just end up as Warden's of the North, since that's where they were when the story began.

As for Ned being Jon's "second father" – no. He says, clear as day, that Ned is his father and he won't forget him, no matter how many swords they give him.

The Iron Throne was full of traps for the unwary. The songs said it had taken a thousand blades to make it, heated white-hot in the furnace breath of Balerion the Black Dread.

- AGoT, Eddard XI

[Steelcan]

Funny how similar Jon Snow is to Shepherd in that both are aware of the true threats, while the people who disregarded their warnings get caught up in petty squabble and politics until it's too late. And add to the fuck-up that is their life, they both died and were brought back, or in Jon's case is about to be resurrected. ;)

Hmmmm I can see a few similarities there.... However Shepard can have a few more black marks on his honor than Jon Snow does at this point...

[Lyse Stark]

A straw man.

I think the beauty of Jon ruling as a Stark is that he's the true heir to the IT and blood of the dragon, – AND – it would provide a satisfying conclusion to the arc of House Stark. It's not really much of an arc if they just end up as Warden's of the North, since that's where they were when the story began.

As for Ned being Jon's "second father" – no. He says, clear as day, that Ned is his father and he won't forget him, no matter how many swords they give him. - AGoT, Eddard XI

I think Fire Eater has a valid point, and Jon, being unaware of his Targaryen heritage, has embraced his ice side because it is the only thing he knows. But remember the song of ice and fire to me mean balance. So that it may be possible that in order to balance the two halves of his heritage, Jon may combine both name into a new House, with a new motto, "Ice and Fire".

[J. Stargaryen]

I think Fire Eater has a valid point, and Jon, being unaware of his Targaryen heritage, has embraced his ice side because it is the only thing he knows. But remember the song of ice and fire to me mean balance. So that it may be possible that in order to balance the two halves of his heritage, Jon may combine both name into a new House, with a new motto, "Ice and Fire".

Not embracing, but foreshadowing. "no matter how many swords they give me." is a clear cut foreshadowing of the IT if there ever was one. Note, he's not actually aware that he's talking about the IT there. That's something only the audience realizes. Which is why it is foreshadowing and not embracing.

There's more irony in him ruling as a Stark, too. Remember, he's actually been the Targaryen king his entire life, yet he's never profited from it. So it makes ironic sense that, in order to rule, he will have to be a Stark.

I do like the idea of "Ice and Fire" being his House words though. I actually think his sigil will be a blue rose, since he'd likely be a Stark of King's Landing, or wherever the capitol is at that point. Maybe Harrenhal, as butterbumps! theorized a while back.

But again I ask, where is the story arc for the Starks if they just end up as Warden's of the North again?