Nictarion Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 @ DanelleSelmy actually remembered thinking if Robert would have smiled at the sight of the dead Targ children, nobody could have stopped him from killing Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 @ DanelleSelmy actually remembered thinking if Robert would have smiled at the sight of the dead Targ children, nobody could have stopped him from killing Robert.besides robert himself. Selmy thinks a bit to high about his own skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearson Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 As jaime mocked, they are knights with previous vowes. Even Sandor as Joff sworn sword. Ah, I didn't consider that you needed to be a knight to become a Kingsguard, nor that knights vow to protect the innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahura Mazda Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 You sure about that? I don't believe their oaths include defending anyone but the royal household. As for the OP question, I don't believe any of them would disobey their king's orders. That's part of the vows taken to be knights, and all of them were knights - except the hound.The one of defending the King is just an additional rule, rather than an overriding rule. So they have to protect the King, and - if they succeeded - protect the weak, and so on.. I conceive this vow system like something along the line of the 3 laws of robotics. Let's not forget they were the elite of the elite. Some of them reasoned pretty much alike Ned Stark. Would he have beaten an innocent girl, if ordered? He didn't even want to murder Daenerys and the baby she was going to have.. ..why other people in KG, like Dayne, would be more prone to commit violence than him? As I said in in my 2nd post in this thread, there is big difference into "actively harming someone innocent" and "passively seeing someone innocent being harmed". Not from an ethical point of view, I mean from a mindset point of view.The latter is easier, and can often be accepted by people even when they aren't willingly to actively commit violence.. just like in our society, we passively accept a lot of harm on people when we perceive it's beyond our control, but wouldn't do it actively. Excuse me, what is this KoH? Haven't found in "Abbreviations..."Sorry, it's a movie: Kingdom of Heaven. I thought that the quote was so known worldwide it wasn't necessary to be specific. My bad. :dunce: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 @ DanelleSelmy actually remembered thinking if Robert would have smiled at the sight of the dead Targ children, nobody could have stopped him from killing Robert.And yesterday nobody could have stopped me from doing something today for an upcoming test. But it's 1.00 PM and I haven't even started. Statements like these are easy to make and give some comfort. Living up to them isn't. And nothing in Barristan's entire arc suggests that he would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0bR Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 And yesterday nobody could have stopped me from doing something today for an upcoming test. But it's 1.00 PM and I haven't even started. Statements like these are easy to make and give some comfort. Living up to them isn't. And nothing in Barristan's entire arc suggests that he would have. This. Ser Grandfather is all talks while in fact he has always been more than ready to obey or look aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivergirl Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Urgh, i want to be idealistic and say none of them, because no knight that beat a child should go down in history. Being realistic, though, i think the only ones who would flat out refuse would be Jaime, Loras, Brienne, Dunk and Selmy. Jaime because as pissy as Joff got, he wouldn't harm him- if only because Cersei and Tywin wouldn't let it happen.Loras because as Margaery's brother, Joffrey couldn't ask for his head on a spike without Tyrell retaliation and/or Margaery castrating him.Brienne because she's not an asshole, and has enough naivety left to believe a true knight would never hit a little girl.Dunk because he's also not an asshole.Selmy because of the Robert smiling quote, and poor little Sansa being punished for her father's actions would have reminded him of Rhaenys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 It all depends on who calls the order. If Aerys orders it, I'm positive most of them would have done it considering the alternative would probably mean being accused of treason and being burnt alive, knowing how Aerys thinks. However since this is Joffrey giving order I would say most of them disobeying (apart from those in the books who did obey).As for Jaime and Loras, I believe they would also have disobeyed. Post-Aerys!Jaime specifically lectures the new KG to "protect the king from himself", i.e. not to obey everything that is ordered to them. He's the leader now, so he sets the example. However, pre-Aerys!Jaime may or may not have obeyed, and would probably use his superiors (Dayne, Darry, Hightower) as a yardstick to see how far he should go. If the other KG obey, Jaime would have followed. If they disobeyed, Jaime would also. As for Brienne, she definitely wouldn't hurt an innocent person. ETA: It actually all depends on the punishment for disobeying. Easy for someone to say "I would NEVER hurt an innocent person..yada yada yada etc. etc.". But if the alternative was death/disbandment/etc (very likely during Aerys's reign and possible Joffrey's too if he lived that long) would they still be as absolute in their resolve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 Cmon guys! Selmy was an Aerys KG. That we vent heard of a specifical example of him seeing one of Arys atrocitys doesnt mean he didnt knew, or even saw some of them. He cant just be the lucky guy who is always somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 If you replaced Joff with Renly she would have beaten Sansa senseless(assuming Renly and Sansa were betrothed). She would have been worse than any of Joff's KGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 besides robert himself. Selmy thinks a bit to high about his own skills.The rest of Westeros seems to agree with his assessment of himself. The guy is a one man commando squad, he single handedly saved Aerys at Duskendale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share Posted November 18, 2013 The rest of Westeros seems to agree with his assessment of himself. The guy is a one man commando squad, he single handedly saved Aerys at Duskendale.well, we must agree it would be a hell of a fight then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Ned thought Barristan was the best sword in Westeros in his youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Cmon guys! Selmy was an Aerys KG. That we vent heard of a specifical example of him seeing one of Arys atrocitys doesnt mean he didnt knew, or even saw some of them.He cant just be the lucky guy who is always somewhere else. :agree: and at the OP. Yes, at least all of Aerys' KG and that makes me very sad to say that they would have done it no question asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 The rest of Westeros seems to agree with his assessment of himself. The guy is a one man commando squad, he single handedly saved Aerys at Duskendale. Physically yes. He never had problems facing death or injury. But moral questions are something completely different. There, he always chose the easy path. Enabler. Coward. It all fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Physically yes. He never had problems facing death or injury. But moral questions are something completely different. There, he always chose the easy path. Enabler. Coward. It all fits. nope. he could have gone to stannis or renly. that was the easy path. he went to dany though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 None. Which is to say all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shearstone Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I think Jaime and Dunk are the only two that wouldn't do it. Especially Dunk who would more likely slap Joffrey (got to love Dunk). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 None. Which is to say all of them. Really? Because at least Aerys' KG, minus Jaime, seemed to have no problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Really? Because at least Aerys' KG, minus Jaime, seemed to have no problem with it. Then they're no true knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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