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Lyanna's death


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#1 JustOneGuy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:48 PM

Let's assume that Lyanna died giving a birth.What exactly Robert and the others are told? What is the reason for Lyanna's death for the people?



#2 Agamemnon

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:58 PM

Raped to death by the EVIL TYRANT RHAEGAR
Seriously though good question I cant seem to recall if an official cause of death was ever mentioned. Or do they even need one? Can Ned just chalk it up to "shit happens in war"?

#3 Mr Bell

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 05:02 PM

The official story is that Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar. So, if she is his prisoner, it wouldn't be that hard to believe that the KG were given orders to execute her upon any type of rescue attempt, so that could be used as an official story. Prisoners die all the time.

 

Then again, Robert probably asked how Lyanna died, and Ned probably said shit like "I don't want to talk about it" and leave it at that.



#4 JustOneGuy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 05:14 PM

I think that no matter how upset Ned is, Robert would insist on being told about his betrothed lady's death.



#5 jet199

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 05:16 PM

Officially she died of a fever.

#6 JonCon's Red Beard

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 05:22 PM

The official story is that Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar. So, if she is his prisoner, it wouldn't be that hard to believe that the KG were given orders to execute her upon any type of rescue attempt, so that could be used as an official story. Prisoners die all the time.

 

But people don't remember Arthur Dayne, whent and Hightower to have executed Lyanna, or have tried to. People would say something like that, "Ned had to defeat them because they wanted to kill his sister". I can't remember one single person implying that.

 

Officially she died of a fever.

 

^^



#7 natty bumppo

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 05:27 PM

Obviously, the public and also Robert would have been told some fabricated story. But it is striking that nobody ever mentions the cause of her death. Probably because GRRM wants to avoid the subject till it's time for a big revelation...



#8 Bedwyck

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 05:27 PM

Officially she died of a fever.

I dont seem to remember anyone ever stating this.  



#9 JustOneGuy

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:08 PM

I don't remember about the fever, either. It's possible for me to have forgotten it, but I really don't remember such a thing?



#10 Apple Martini

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:18 PM

I'm guessing (GUESSING) that Ned tried to stick as close to the truth as possible and told people that Lyanna died from a fever and let people just assume it was a sickness and not childbirth. I think the important thing is that no one apart from Robert thinks of Rhaegar as a rapist, and no one seems to think of Dayne, Whent and Hightower as murderers and/or hostage-killers. And I don't think Ned would slander the men by saying they did something they didn't.

 

I think the operative point, and maybe all we ever really need to know, is that whatever Ned told people, it was satisfactory enough that the right people believed it and no one went digging into it.



#11 Lady Blizzardborn

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:20 PM

I don't remember about the fever, either. It's possible for me to have forgotten it, but I really don't remember such a thing?

Ned remembers her being weak from a fever by the time he got to her.  Makes sense that this is also what he told everyone.



#12 kiasyd

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:38 PM

I'm guessing (GUESSING) that Ned tried to stick as close to the truth as possible and told people that Lyanna died from a fever and let people just assume it was a sickness and not childbirth. I think the important thing is that no one apart from Robert thinks of Rhaegar as a rapist, and no one seems to think of Dayne, Whent and Hightower as murderers and/or hostage-killers. And I don't think Ned would slander the men by saying they did something they didn't.

 

I think the operative point, and maybe all we ever really need to know, is that whatever Ned told people, it was satisfactory enough that the right people believed it and no one went digging into it.

 

Yes, however it's somewhat weird actually - the official story is that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna but "rape" doesn't fit his profile at all so it's weird that the details of the whole affair and Lyanna's misterious death aren't investigated properly by other parties - specially people like Varys.



#13 Chebyshov

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:52 PM


"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promi se me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper , but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes.

 

The best lies have a little truth to them. I'm sure he told most people it was a fever, but failed to explicate that it was puerperal fever.



#14 Apple Martini

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:55 PM

Yes, however it's somewhat weird actually - the official story is that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna but "rape" doesn't fit his profile at all so it's weird that the details of the whole affair and Lyanna's misterious death aren't investigated properly by other parties - specially people like Varys.

 

I think it's strongly alluded to by multiple parties that it was consensual. But the digging is really only necessary if you suspect that a child came out of it. Ned, for better or worse, has a reputation such that what he says can be readily believed. 



#15 The Wolves

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:58 PM

 
I think it's strongly alluded to by multiple parties that it was consensual. But the digging is really only necessary if you suspect that a child came out of it. Ned, for better or worse, has a reputation such that what he says can be readily believed. 


What's really weird is that no one suspects that a child could have come out of it given how much time Lyanna was with Rhaegar to become pregnant and how much time she was away to grow and have her baby. But people in Westeros are dumb, but I'm really surprised nobody thought of a child being born from Rhaegar and Lyanna.

#16 JonisHenryTudor

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 07:01 PM

 

Yes, however it's somewhat weird actually - the official story is that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna but "rape" doesn't fit his profile at all so it's weird that the details of the whole affair and Lyanna's misterious death aren't investigated properly by other parties - specially people like Varys.

True. But do we know that Vary's did not in fact investigate? Or anyone? As another mentioned, this might come out later. As a side, everyone knows of Ned's legendary honor, so perhaps people just believed anything Ned offered. 



#17 Bedwyck

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 07:17 PM

Ned remembers her being weak from a fever by the time he got to her.  Makes sense that this is also what he told everyone.

Maybe, I wouldnt go so far as to saying thats what was "officially" passed off as the cause of her death.  A 16 year old girl who was known to be strong and healthy dies of a measly fever.  I think there are stories which would be more believable than that.  



#18 Bedwyck

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 07:22 PM

True. But do we know that Vary's did not in fact investigate? Or anyone? As another mentioned, this might come out later. As a side, everyone knows of Ned's legendary honor, so perhaps people just believed anything Ned offered. 

If anyone thought that a child might have come from R+L (which people should have known to consider) then Ned would also have clear motive to want to protect his sister's child.  Then, all of the sudden the honorable Ned comes back with a bastard of his own.  Seems highly suspicious.  



#19 Margaret Ballinger

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 07:26 PM

Theon's dream in A Clash of Kings:
 
"That night he dreamed of the feast Ned Stark had thrown when King Robert came to Winterfell....
 
....But there were others with faces he had never known in life, faces he had seen only in stone. The slim, sad girl who wore a crown of pale blue roses and a white gown spattered with gore could only be Lyanna. Her brother Brandon stood beside her, and their father Lord Rickard just behind. Along the walls figures half-seen moved through the shadows, pale shades with long grim faces. The sight of them sent fear shivering through Theon sharp as a knife. And then the tall doors opened with a crash, and a freezing gale blew down the hall, and Robb came walking out of the night. Grey Wind stalked beside, eyes burning, and man and wolf alike bled from half a hundred savage wounds."
 
She died in a room that smelled of blood, and in a bed of blood and as Theon saw in his dream above, she was bloody.
 
I have been compiling all references about Lyanna for a fanpage I help admin. It is mostly for show only fans and I have had multiple requests about her story since the show doesn't do flashbacks and such.
 
There are only 2 people that say Lyanna was raped. Robert, repeatedly and Bran. Bran mentioned it to Osha while in the crypts. Every one else says Rhaegar was in love. Even Daenerys mentioned it more than once, When Drogo was dying she said she would die for him, as Rhaegar died for the woman he loved. Ser Barristan said "Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it." Even Kevan Lannister mentioned if Rhaegar had been married to Cersei, he would have never looked twice at Lyanna. Personally, I think that it was Robert's pride that insisted it must have been rape. He just couldn't accept it.  
 

If the R + L = J theory is correct Ned was torn. Robert was his friend and now king, and wanted to see all Targaryens dead as they could someday be a threat to his rule. Yet here was Lyanna was begging him for a promise. Ned had came from King's Landing, he gazed upon the bloodly little bodies of Rhaegar's children all wrapped in Lannister cloaks. The cloaks were opened and he saw the carnage that was done to them. After that, how could he not promise to keep Jon's identity secret? It would mean telling everyone it was his child, a stain on his honor. 

 

After Ned went to the brothel to see the bastard baby he thought:

 

"Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows.

He thought of the promises he’d made Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he’d paid to keep them. . .

 

Riding through the rainy night, Ned saw Jon Snow’s face in front of him, so like a younger version of his own. If the gods frowned so on bastards, he thought dully, why did they fill men with such lusts?"


Edited by Margaret Ballinger, 08 June 2014 - 07:27 PM.


#20 kiasyd

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:24 PM

 

I think it's strongly alluded to by multiple parties that it was consensual. But the digging is really only necessary if you suspect that a child came out of it. Ned, for better or worse, has a reputation such that what he says can be readily believed. 

 

Indeed, and if anyone ever thought about a possible child, Jon would certainly be under their radar, and so far his identity seems to be safe... Only exception is Bloodraven, I guess.