Victarion most evil character?

[Nictarion]

Victarion is definitely the most evil POV character in the series. He does tend to rationalize his evil acts but we rarely see him show any remorse and empathy towards those he kills.

Cersie says hello.

[Mithras]

He burned 7 women as an offering to R'hllor and the Drowned God because they were beautiful. He enjoyed their screams. (Zealot)

He burned them in return of Moqorro’s healing and his offer that good winds would follow their sacrifice, which happened as he said. About his zealotry, yes he is a religious man and he serves a cruel god. Now there are two of them.

He beated and killed his wife while she was pregnant, "fed her to the crabs". (Abusive, murderer and misogynist)

Pregnant to Euron’s bastard. She cheated on him willingly according to Euron. Victarion was humiliated and ashamed by Euron about his manhood, which seems to be small. In the society he lives, he could not have done any different. He was sobbing as he killed her, which is very interesting for a man like him.

He chained and threw perfumed slave boys, because they were "abominations". (Homophobic)

He was going to a war and he did not have any work or place for the boy whores in his fleet.

He burned Maester Kerwin as an offering to R'hllor because he was "poisoning" his hand while he had no evidence and it was most likely the dusky woman who poisoned his hand. (Dumb)

Correction: he had his throat slit and fed him to the sea.

It is not certain who was poisoning him. I think it is not even certain that he was being poisoned. He had sex with the dusky woman with his wounded hand and the infection might be completely natural. The maester had the means and motive to poison him because he was being used as a buttboy and Victarion did not lift a finger for him.

I really don't understand how can you guys like him? I can't stand him, I hope he dies as soon as possible in a painful way.

He will die but not before kicking so many asses.

Oh, and Gregor or Ramsay are no different than Barristan, because you know, they only know a single way to solve their problems; their sword or knife.

I wanted to say that neither Vic nor Barristan have the cunning to plot.

Stannis is a righteous man who unlike Vic wouldn't try to murder those who have slighted him.

That SSM is widely misunderstood. GRRM was trying to make a different point.

I personally do not need an SSM to see what kind of a character is someone who is so widely in front of us like Stannis.

Stannis styles himself the king and he murdered Renly and Cortnay for mocking him. As long as he presumes to be the king, any insult to his person should result in the losing of that tongue at best. In the worst case, the Red God would be pleased.

The fisherman called Victarion a fool in his own deck, where every captain is a king, in front of his crew. That was a suicidal foolishness at the same level with Viserys drawing steel and threating Dany in front of Drogo. Victarion spares Moqorro’s blasphemies to the Drowned God although he is so religious.

Victarion is definitely the most evil POV character in the series.

Ever heard of Cersei Lannister?

He does tend to rationalize his evil acts but we rarely see him show any remorse and empathy towards those he kills.

Victarion does not need to rationalize his evil acts because according to the Old Way, none of those things are evil. On the contrary, they are the will of their god.

Stannis is the person whose story consists of 99.9% of rationalizing his evil acts.

[Toth]

I queue myself at the line of people who say that Victarion is the most horrible person being a POV. Yes, by far more than Cersei. Sure, she is a scheming bitch, but much of her 'evil' acts are stupid decisions born of paranoia. If you manage to not give her reason to doubt your loyalty, she just comes around as a self-centered jerk. Sure, she also kills people, but I find her somewhat more reasonable in her killings than this dumb brute who just explodes if you look at him funny. In addition to this, noone can deny Cersei's love for her children and that she's fiercely protective of them. Does Victarion have any loved ones? No, he's just an axe with legs...

I also tried very hard during my read of his chapters to reason his behavior with ironborn-mentality. Yes, he beat his wife to death (btw: I don't believe Euron with his story, he surely just wanted to hurt his brother with it), that somehow might have been expected from him (Romans had a quite similar morality when it came to adultery). He had that one single redeeming scene were he honored that Reach knight to be 'almost ironborn', I give him that credit. But every single thing that happened after he encountered Moqorro was just crossing the line. His killing of the boys and girlslaves was a horrible and disgusting read, nothing else. His reasoning to please R'hllor as well as the Drowned God doesn't work for the Ironborn. Water and Fire are anathema after all, even an idiot like him should see that. It was just pointless cruelty which makes him not even a zealot, but a headless zealot.

And because of the guy laughing him... He didn't meant to defy Victarion, he just laughed about the funny picture Vic made of sailing through solid ground. And if his ship isn't fully crewed by vegetables with brains the size of walnuts, they wouldn't feel as offended as he did.

Sure, he is not the blackest character of the song, this cake goes to Ramsay, but he certainly is the darkest POV-character.

[Sullen]

. Does Victarion have any loved ones?

Of course he does.

He loved his wife (Crying as he finished her), worshipped his older brother, and was also very fond of his niece, as he expressed relief when he learned she fled from Euron.

[No Song so Sweet]

Victarion is evil in the sense that he doesn't think twice about killing someone, but life is cheap for the Iron Islands and for Westeros in general.

Killing people is far from the worst someone can do, especially if they are warriors and he fights them and defeats them. That, in his mind at least, gives him power of life and death over them, and in a sense it is true.

In general life is not important to Victarion, because he is a raider and that's what raiders do: kill. I suppose raping is also not a problem for him as long as it is to a "salt wife", because in his mind whatever he can take by the sword and pay the iron price, it is his. That does make him objectively evil but he is not a psycho or a sadist.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

How can Victarion being more evil than Cersei? Really?

Cersei:

Yes, I will accuse an innocent girl of being a whore just because she is going to be a Queen instead of me so I won't lose my glory days of beauty and power, and I'll enjoy every minute of her humiliation while silently giggling at how many people stick their fingers to her little cunt to check her virginity.

vs

Victarion:

Yes, we murder men in battle, Euron, but humiliating innocent girls and raping them in front of his father is not right. Go and jump through the window, you fool.

[No Song so Sweet]

He burned them in return of Moqorro’s healing and his offer that good winds would follow their sacrifice, which happened as he said. About his zealotry, yes he is a religious man and he serves a cruel god. Now there are two of them.

I personally do not need an SSM to see what kind of a character is someone who is so widely in front of us like Stannis.

Stannis styles himself the king and he murdered Renly and Cortnay for mocking him. As long as he presumes to be the king, any insult to his person should result in the losing of that tongue at best. In the worst case, the Red God would be pleased.

Stannis never did anything for the Red God, other than use him as a means to an end. He is not a zealot and he is not trying to please a god. He is just trying to sit on the throne which is his birthright and he also cares about the commonfolk and the people. The only one remaining who cares (except maybe ®aegon).

He didn't kill Renly and Penrose because they were "mocking him". He killed them because they were fighting him, in a war, and did it with trickery/magic so he didn't lose any men and there was no bloodshed. Win win. Of course a king has the option and the power to punish those who speak against him, and I also wouldn't do the same things to Victarion if I was his prisoner, for obvious reasons.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Stannis never did anything for the Red God, other than use him as a means to an end. He is not a zealot and he is not trying to please a god. He is just trying to sit on the throne which is his birthright and he also cares about the commonfolk and the people. The only one remaining who cares (except maybe ®aegon).

In a way, that's kinda worst. At least you could say that zealots and fanatics are consistent with their own beliefs. Stannis simply uses them to achieve his goals, even though he might disapprove their ways. What if R'hllor is actually an evil force and it's "his side" the one trying to destroy the world and not the Others? Stannis would be indirectly giving R'hllor and his religion more strength than the one they should have. At least Victarion is consistent. He might be wrong about his God, or even his existence, but he's a religious man. And personally, I don't see neither as a zealot.

Now, that doesn't make Stannis an evil man either, I don't see why Victarion should be evil because of that.

[Charles Calthrop]

Most stupid character? Absolutely. Can't think of anyone dumber - although Cersei is a close second and certainly the most inept. Victarion is at least good for "SMASH!"

Most evil - not so much. He's got plenty of evil inside of him, but within the context of his "culture" (if you can call the ironborn way that), he's actually pretty average. I'd put at least Ramsay, Gregor, and Cersei ahead of him.

Although I don't give him any pass for religious zealotry. A number of posters seem to borderline excuse that as "he was just following orders/ it was just for religion" - I don't see that as any kind of pass at all. Some of the worst atrocities are committed in the name of fervent 'belief' in religion.

But this is also part of the problem with Vic - he's a very mentally limited person, and that sort are particularly susceptible to manipulated religious tenets.

Why don't many people see this?

He kills people for laughing at him and burns women alive whose screams sound like a beautiful song to him.

List of most evil in my opinion.

1. Ramsay

2. Victarion

3. Gregor

4. Clayton Suggs

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Arya somewhere down the line for her disturbing lack of empathy.

[Mithras]

Stannis never did anything for the Red God, other than use him as a means to an end. He is not a zealot and he is not trying to please a god. He is just trying to sit on the throne which is his birthright and he also cares about the commonfolk and the people. The only one remaining who cares (except maybe ®aegon).

What? Stannis believes that Mel has power and she claims that the Red God gives her the power. So, Stannis believes the Red God has power and he allows the sacrifices to please the Red God. He also believes himself to be the champion of the Red God.

Stannis does not care about anyone or anything except his damn throne.

He didn't kill Renly and Penrose because they were "mocking him". He killed them because they were fighting him, in a war, and did it with trickery/magic so he didn't lose any men and there was no bloodshed. Win win.

Except Stannis himself brought the war to Renly and Cortnay by laying siege to Storm's End. Killing Renly was lose-lose for Stannis because the Reach had no reason to join him without Renly. In fact, they had every reason to fight against Stannis because everybody knows that Stannis forgets nothing and forgives less. They were the ones who nearly starved out Stannis in Storm’s End during Robert’s Rebellion. By killing Renly, Stannis pushed the Tyrells into the arms of the Lannisters.

[Charles Calthrop]

Except Stannis himself brought the war to Renly and Cortnay by laying siege to Storm's End. Killing Renly was lose-lose for Stannis because the Reach had no reason to join him without Renly. In fact, they had every reason to fight against Stannis because everybody knows that Stannis forgets nothing and forgives less. They were the ones who nearly starved out Stannis in Storm’s End during Robert’s Rebellion. By killing Renly, Stannis pushed the Tyrells into the arms of the Lannisters.

The Reach had no reason to join Stannis even with Renly. The Reach was only on Renly's side to begin with, not Stannis'. I'm not a huge Stan fan, but Stannis viewed Renly as treasonous for calling upon the Stormlands' bannermen. (Which, objectively, he was.) Even in modern times, treason carries a death penalty.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Did we forget all of these people are noble? They think they are entitled and in a way, they are. They didn't make the rules, and in many cases, what keep them in power is the fear or respect they get. You can't expect some random man go and tell Ned Stark to his face that he's an idiot for not knowing something in front of his men. Even nowadays disrespect certain authorities, specially legal or political, don't go unpunished. You might not get your tongue cut but you have to pay a fee or even spend one night in jail.

[Charles Calthrop]

Did we forget all of these people are noble? They think they are entitled and in a way, they are. They didn't make the rules, and in many cases, what keep them in power is the fear or respect they get. You can't expect some random man go and tell Ned Stark to his face that he's an idiot for not knowing something in front of his men. Even nowadays disrespect certain authorities, specially legal or political, don't go unpunished. You might not get your tongue cut but you have to pay a fee or even spend one night in jail.

Very true. Try telling a cop he's wrong and the reaction (and the fairly ludicrous things they can charge you with) will be extreme. Let alone someone with real power.

[The Kinkslayer]

Most evil? No, most stupid? YES

[Charles Calthrop]

Most evil? No, most stupid? YES

Yeah, I can't even think of another contender for The Lead Paint Throne.

[Storm Knight]

Victarion's brutality is not too far from that of Gregor's. He has far too much blood on his hands to not be considered evil. And for the slightest things as well. He seems to be the kind of guy who would slit a man's throat if he didn't like his face. His rationalizations of his acts is actually comical and exposes his low intelligence and insecurity.

[Storm Knight]

Also I don't think that Stannis truly believes in Melisandre's spiel. He's way too smart for that. He's using Melisandre because he knows she does indeed have powers, being able to see things in the fire, produce shadow babies and what not.

[Daemon I Blackfyre]

Victarion is like a very dumb religious extremist.

He burns the prostitues thinking he's actually doing something good for everyone.

Understand this: there's no one worst than Ramsay, Gregor and Rorge.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Victarion's brutality is not too far from that of Gregor's. He has far too much blood on his hands to not be considered evil. And for the slightest things as well. He seems to be the kind of guy who would slit a man's throat if he didn't like his face. His rationalizations of his acts is actually comical and exposes his low intelligence and insecurity.

That's not the definition of evil, specially in GRRM's world when brute force is needed to survive in many cultures. The Incas made human sacrifices to their Gods and they brutally savaged the places they conquered, even using slaves. Were they evil?

Gregor Clegaine is a monster. That's why Tywin uses him, because he knows he won't object his order and obey, even if that means killing babies. Victarion opposed to his brother and his men raping and sexually degrading girls.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I thought his three-way tribute was kind of clever.

This may be the first time I've ever seen the word clever used to describe Victarion. Three way tribute, I guess Ole Vic might just be mastering multiplication. :lmao: :thumbsup: