Any tips for an aspiring writer?

[Arthmail]

As Roose mentioned, the sums involved in writing are pretty much negative. The amount of time spent learning to write versus what you "might" make is staggering.

[First of My Name]

I highly recommend reading Stephen King's On Writing. It has a section full of great advice.

[Myrddin]

Writing a book for money... It's like taking a job that doesn't even pay minimum wage, but pays a single lotto ticket that you can't redeem until you're finished.

Chances are, when you scratch off that silver foil, it'll just say, "Thank you for submitting, but this is not for me."

Write because you can't not write. Write because the characters keep pestering you to tell their story. Or write because you love it.

I'm more in the second category. I write to make them leave me alone.

[First of My Name]

Writing a book for money... It's like taking a job that doesn't even pay minimum wage, but pays a single lotto ticket that you can't redeem until you're finished.

Chances are, when you scratch off that silver foil, it'll just say, "Thank you for submitting, but this is not for me."

Write because you can't not write. Write because the characters keep pestering you to tell their story. Or write because you love it.

I'm more in the second category. I write to make them leave me alone.

I completely agree.

I think I'm a mix of all three categories, but mostly the latter.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Drink lots of whiskey.

[Ebenstone]

Write because you can't not write.

Exactly....that's my belief about writing....I write because I can't NOT write.

[Howdyphillip]

Exactly....that's my belief about writing....I write because I can't NOT write.

Really?

It is my experience that I can do a lot of other things than write. Especially when I sit down to write. I can check my email, surf the web, do research, answer my phone, play just a few minute of my favorite game, check to see that my DVR is set, play with my dogs, get up to cook lunch or dinner, read something someone else has written... ect ect ect ad infinitum... I can certainly NOT write...

I have to force myself to let go of all these distractions and just put the words to page.

[Callan S.]

Who is cash grabbing as an author? Maybe once you reach a certain point and you're expected to churn out the same book every year, but I don't think anyone gets into writing novels for the money. For anyone but the blockbusters, it can be tough to even making a living on it, and who becomes blockbusters is mostly down to chance. Most authors write for years before they get published, putting in countless hours for something that pay never may off or pay off very little. Not a great recipe for a cash grab.

Then why do we spend so much money on books?

[Callan S.]

Writing a book for money... It's like taking a job that doesn't even pay minimum wage, but pays a single lotto ticket that you can't redeem until you're finished.

Chances are, when you scratch off that silver foil, it'll just say, "Thank you for submitting, but this is not for me."

Write because you can't not write. Write because the characters keep pestering you to tell their story. Or write because you love it.

I'm more in the second category. I write to make them leave me alone.

Ie, write to make other people rich when one author gets through and so makes that bunch of other people a bunch of cash when they do. Just keep doing it, with love. Despite how you're abused.

Honestly, of all the villains we write about and yet this is the extent of author self management?

Write as to make a protest sign against your abuse and/or neglect. Not a love letter to your abusers.

[First of My Name]

Ie, write to make other people rich when one author gets through and so makes that bunch of other people a bunch of cash when they do. Just keep doing it, with love. Despite how you're abused.

Honestly, of all the villains we write about and yet this is the extent of author self management?

Write as to make a protest sign against your abuse and/or neglect. Not a love letter to your abusers.

I disagree. Why should I stop doing what I love, just because it has a side effect of making other people rich?

I think the term "abuse" is an overstatement in this sentence. And how would writing as a protest sign stop you from being "abused"? You're still writing, just for a different season. I don't see how the consequences of who gets money would differ.

[Callan S.]

I disagree. Why should I stop doing what I love, just because it has a side effect of making other people rich?

I think the term "abuse" is an overstatement in this sentence. And how would writing as a protest sign stop you from being "abused"? You're still writing, just for a different season. I don't see how the consequences of who gets money would differ.

Why should I stop doing what I love

Because it's the same as when retired people with a million in super annuation take up a job for a hobby that someone else needs for a living (and, like, raising a family, maybe).

That or if you are a starving artist, you're condoning the process that leaves you starving.

Besides, writing placards into the text isn't ceasing to write at all. Unless you were aiming for pure escapism.

I think the term "abuse" is an overstatement in this sentence.

I've recently read forums where people whinge about how desert foxes are captured and photographed with tourists for money (or sold to tourists). I think they were implying abuse - and that was an animal.

Publishers might sell you to tourists if you're lucky. Otherwise they are fine if you remain a starving artist (or if you already have a stable income then refer back to the retiree example).

I mean that's part of why you go with this whole 'it's a hobby' thing - you're dodging the abuse of the commercial game by acting like you were never in the game to begin with and just hobbying. Though if the fat publishing deal comes up, that'll change. Or what, you'd pass up a million because it's just a hobby? It's possible to do that. Indeed it's almost the premise of a book, whether someone would decline and continue to decline even during some sort of financial difficulty simply on the princple of 'it's a hobby'. See what I mean - placards can be built into a text...

And how would writing as a protest sign stop you from being "abused"?

Crikey! Talk about learned helplessness!

Why not just say you think protests do absolutely nothing? Who knows, maybe you're right even?

But I guess saying so would be a kind of protest, so you don't. Because they don't work?

[First of My Name]

Why should I stop doing what I love

Because it's the same as when retired people with a million in super annuation take up a job for a hobby that someone else needs for a living (and, like, raising a family, maybe).

That or if you are a starving artist, you're condoning the process that leaves you starving.

Besides, writing placards into the text isn't ceasing to write at all. Unless you were aiming for pure escapism.

I think the term "abuse" is an overstatement in this sentence.

I've recently read forums where people whinge about how desert foxes are captured and photographed with tourists for money (or sold to tourists). I think they were implying abuse - and that was an animal.

Publishers might sell you to tourists if you're lucky. Otherwise they are fine if you remain a starving artist (or if you already have a stable income then refer back to the retiree example).

I mean that's part of why you go with this whole 'it's a hobby' thing - you're dodging the abuse of the commercial game by acting like you were never in the game to begin with and just hobbying. Though if the fat publishing deal comes up, that'll change. Or what, you'd pass up a million because it's just a hobby? It's possible to do that. Indeed it's almost the premise of a book, whether someone would decline and continue to decline even during some sort of financial difficulty simply on the princple of 'it's a hobby'. See what I mean - placards can be built into a text...

And how would writing as a protest sign stop you from being "abused"?

Crikey! Talk about learned helplessness!

Why not just say you think protests do absolutely nothing? Who knows, maybe you're right even?

But I guess saying so would be a kind of protest, so you don't. Because they don't work?

Because it's the same as when retired people with a million in super annuation take up a job for a hobby that someone else needs for a living (and, like, raising a family, maybe).

How is that the same? If I write a book, it's not like someone else would have written that book if I hadn't. That book's money wouldn't have gone to someone else, because it wouldn't have existed.

Yes, you could consider the thing with the desert fox abuse. But is that a fair comparison? The fox doesn't get paid, writers do.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Writing (unless you're in a very small group of people) is a hobby. Would I or anyone else turn down any financial gain that comes along? Of course not. Doesn't mean I write to make money. It's a (very nice) bonus, not an underlying motivation.

[Myrddin]

Writing (unless you're in a very small group of people) is a hobby. Would I or anyone else turn down any financial gain that comes along? Of course not. Doesn't mean I write to make money. It's a (very nice) bonus, not an underlying motivation.

Most writers are stuck in the mid-list, which means they have a "day job" and/or a supporting spouse.

If I made enough money every year from a hobby to take my family on a nice vacation, I'd keep doing that hobby.

But it wouldn't be the goal of that hobby.

[Ebenstone]

Really?

It is my experience that I can do a lot of other things than write. Especially when I sit down to write. I can check my email, surf the web, do research, answer my phone, play just a few minute of my favorite game, check to see that my DVR is set, play with my dogs, get up to cook lunch or dinner, read something someone else has written... ect ect ect ad infinitum... I can certainly NOT write...

I have to force myself to let go of all these distractions and just put the words to page.

Then maybe writing isn't for you. It's a compulsion to me. Do I want to write every waking moment? No. Do I do other things instead of write? Sure. Play Barbies with my daughter, roughhouse a little with my toddler, concentrate on becoming a better teacher, grade papers, make dinner, try to tidy my house, watch some football on Saturdays, read etc? You bet. But I always come back to writing. No matter what. Why? Because I can't not write. I've tried not writing. Really. And I came back to writing.

And as for writing as a job/hobby...who cares...the hobby argument is old and tired. WHO CARES? Writers write. As I said, it's a compulsion. It helps that I have a day job as an English teacher where I can frame what I do all around writing. But would I like to be nothing but a writer as a full time career? Sure. But that's not the reality of now. Maybe if, when I was younger, instead of being the stooge I was and did a little more writing my path may have been different. but it's not. Are there people that just like to write even if they have no intention of being published for money? Because they enjoy it? You bet. I lift weights because I enjoy it...I'm not going to compete in the CrossFit games or try to make the Olympic power lifting team. But does that mean that I shouldn't do it or enjoy it because I'm not trying to make money doing it.

If you are a writer, good for you. Can we just leave it at that?

[Howdyphillip]

Then maybe writing isn't for you. It's a compulsion to me. Do I want to write every waking moment? No. Do I do other things instead of write? Sure. Play Barbies with my daughter, roughhouse a little with my toddler, concentrate on becoming a better teacher, grade papers, make dinner, try to tidy my house, watch some football on Saturdays, read etc? You bet. But I always come back to writing. No matter what. Why? Because I can't not write. I've tried not writing. Really. And I came back to writing.

And as for writing as a job/hobby...who cares...the hobby argument is old and tired. WHO CARES? Writers write. As I said, it's a compulsion. It helps that I have a day job as an English teacher where I can frame what I do all around writing. But would I like to be nothing but a writer as a full time career? Sure. But that's not the reality of now. Maybe if, when I was younger, instead of being the stooge I was and did a little more writing my path may have been different. but it's not. Are there people that just like to write even if they have no intention of being published for money? Because they enjoy it? You bet. I lift weights because I enjoy it...I'm not going to compete in the CrossFit games or try to make the Olympic power lifting team. But does that mean that I shouldn't do it or enjoy it because I'm not trying to make money doing it.

If you are a writer, good for you. Can we just leave it at that?

I disagree strongly with this of course. The writing process is very different for everyone. I have known people like yourself that finds it very easy to sit down and produce. I do not consider that the norm. Most people I know that write have to be diligent about writing and form good writing habits. It is also very easy to slip out of those habits. That does not mean that they should not write, it just means that they they should they should be vigilant if this is something they want to invest their time.

[Wise Fool]

If writing is an actual compulsion, I would consider that more of a symptom of psychological disorder than a requisite aspect of "being a writer." Saying that "maybe writing isn't for you" if they have to make an effort to write, as opposed to being powerless to prevent themselves from writing, is like saying that "maybe drinking isn't for you" to someone who isn't an alcoholic.

[Myrddin]

Yeah, I'm more in line with Howdy Phil. I get what you're saying, Eben. I do love to write. I just hate getting it all edited and polished so that it actually flows like a properly written piece of fiction. I love the amateur side of writing. I love dreaming up characters and guiding them through other lives, while throwing the worst obstacles at them. Taking them to other places. Doing all the cool things that are impossible.

Getting that whole mess up to professional level is the part I hate. Well, not hate. It's the part I struggle with. Making it marketable.

You've read my stuff, John. I'm no slouch at writing. I just lack the drive to keep my ass in my chair to finish the final draft. I let too many priorities (and distractions, and the desire to rest away from work and kids, etc) get in the way.

[Myrddin]

Double posting to add:

I just want to point out that I think the world of Ebenstone, including his professionalism, his steady output, his perseverance, and of course his wonderful stories (that I am privileged to read). I'm actually jealous that he loves writing so much, where I find it a chore on most days. :)

Everyone comes to the process from a different place. My mindset definitely needs realignment.

[Ulthosian Stark]

Wow I was wondering how this got revived lol as was said in the OP my stance is since elementary I've wanted to create my own world, either on paper or virtually via game design but a desk job isn't for me, so it'll just be more of a fulfillment thing. Chances are even if it does get published it won't be till I'm like 40 anyway and have reworked it a million times. I'll probably be dead by then anyway

Get a menial job in retail so you can harness the power of hatred and cynicism.

I have a menial job at a bar being a cook haha I have harnessed much hatred and cynicism

You need to be able to write.at anytime, even if its just waiting line to buy some.gum. So get a nice case for your typewriter and have it with you 24/7.

My phone is my notepad, or I walk around with a gust check book from work and write bits on it then attach all relevant to each other notes together with a paper clip

work on stories you feel passionate about. many in the field are simply cash-grabbing.

I feel this is what I'm doing, since I've literally been reading epics since elementary I feel its the only thing I can write, fictionally. I can probably pour out a book about watching my friends die from an innocent enough beginning by taking random pharms in a pretty short time though. It makes me mad as hell therefore gives me energy to do it.

Drink lots of whiskey.

Jameson, glass of Jameson with some kryptom resin dissolved in it :)