What does GRRM see in Varys and Melisandre that we don't?

[The Prince of Newcastle]

He knows the ending of his own book so he knows more than anyone else about everything in it obviously.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Was meant to be: If she is the daughter of two bastards of the king.

That would neither make her nobility, nor lowborn either.

Correct-- Aegon IV legitimized his bastards. Though since Shiera and Bloodraven never married, Mel would still technically be a bastard. But certainly on a par with Daemon Blackfyre, whose true born parents were both children of Kings.

And many thanks to you and @yolkboy for

RADIO WESTEROS Episode 03: Melisandre - A Red, Red Star

which was again wonderfully made and good listening!

And so very on topic here.

Thank you so much kind ser! :D

[RuinedClaw]

Varys is awesome. Melisandre is just an idiotic bitch that kills people because they don't believe in her religion.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I think he said they were misunderstood, I suppose he could have also said that were underrated though.

I find both of them two of the most interesting and mysterious characters in the books. Speculation about both of them is also interesting. Is he really a eunuch? Why is he so devoted to having a Targaryen on the throne? Or, is he actually devoted to having a Blackfyre on the throne?

Mel is amazing to me. She brings a lot to the table. She has power. I know she does carny tricks but she also has real power. The effect she has on people in and of itself is pretty amazing. I mean, how many people has she converted to the Lord of Light? That's powerful.

These are two of my favorite characters because I can't figure out what it is they really want or who's side they're actually on or if they're good or evil. Can't wait to read more of them in the next two books.

[The Mother of The Others]

Varys is awesome. Melisandre is just an idiotic bitch that kills people because they don't believe in her religion.

This reminds me of the evenhanded political reporting of Nancy Cordis. Now for some counter-bias to bring us back into balance. Isn't Varys our cackling Batman villain who dispenses chaos as he sees fit? It's just tougher to recognize him as that because he so rarely cackles due to all the calmness and whispering, plus Patchface is the one wearing the Riddler outfit so that makes Varys look more sane by comparison. And Melisandre is a hot messiah, it's just tougher to see her as that because this is her 2nd Coming---she already died sacrificially as part of her first go-round long ago, and now she figures it's time for other people to die who aren't her.

[SevasTra82]

The major difference I see between the two is that Varys has actually carefully crafted his plan(s) for decades. He's smart, collected, and cunning. He knows exactly what he's doing and is very good at doing it.

Mel is a very powerful character who has skills that go beyond anyone else in Westeros. But she's ignorant....she mis-interprets her own visions. Of course, she could be playing her own game with Stannis that none of us are aware of yet, but overall, I don't think she's quite a cunning at Varys.

I think Varys is going to play a major role in the upcoming books with (f)Aegon, while Mel will probably end up getting killed by Stannis once he realizes that she's been stringing him along.

[HexMachina]

The major difference I see between the two is that Varys has actually carefully crafted his plan(s) for decades. He's smart, collected, and cunning. He knows exactly what he's doing and is very good at doing it.

Mel is a very powerful character who has skills that go beyond anyone else in Westeros. But she's ignorant....she mis-interprets her own visions. Of course, she could be playing her own game with Stannis that none of us are aware of yet, but overall, I don't think she's quite a cunning at Varys.

I think Varys is going to play a major role in the upcoming books with (f)Aegon, while Mel will probably end up getting killed by Stannis once he realizes that she's been stringing him along.

Her chapter kind of debunks the idea she is playing her own game with Stannis. She is pretty confident that he is AA. She's not stringing him along really, or at least not in bad faith

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Varys and Mel are both trying to do what they think is best for the long term. It's probably going to come back to bite both of them. Doing what's best for the long term always requires short-term sacrifice. They're looking at the bigger picture. Each is trying to save the realm in their own way, only Mel actually knows about a threat greater than House Lannister having the throne.