Why MUST there always be a Stark in Winterfell?

[Mithras]

Given that Bran the Builder supposedly built the Wall, founded the NW and built Winterfell, I think it must be related to the Wall and defense against the Others. We are told the NW forgot its true purpose (which was the defense against the Others). We are also told that many things are forgotten in Winterfell.

[Nyrhex]

There are some pretty wild theories as to why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. Perhaps the reason is not so complicated...

Bran II, Storm

Hmmm.....

And here I remember Ramsay hunting and raping women, Umber practicing first night, Eddard passing the option to do anything about Wildlings raids in the North because fuck it, winter is coming in the next 2-3 years, who can possibly manage to arrive there in time with a small force to return the peace to the mass exodus of refugees from the Gift, New Gift, and the Umber lands? (Hint, it's more about wanting more tax money than difficulty to deal with the problem). The king on the Iron Throne marching through the Kingsroad and not finding any decent inns north of the Neck.

Could it be that the man is so used to the Stark propaganda that he assumes that the troubles he is facing are due to a Stark not being in Winterfell, instead of due to this politically weak generation of Starks, and due to the wars they had lost?

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

Hmmm.....

And here I remember Ramsay hunting and raping women, Umber practicing first night, Eddard passing the option to do anything about Wildlings raids in the North because fuck it, winter is coming in the next 2-3 years, who can possibly manage to arrive there in time with a small force to return the peace to the mass exodus of refugees from the Gift, New Gift, and the Umber lands? (Hint, it's more about wanting more tax money than difficulty to deal with the problem). The king on the Iron Throne marching through the Kingsroad and not finding any decent inns north of the Neck.

Could it be that the man is so used to the Stark propaganda that he assumes that the troubles he is facing are due to a Stark not being in Winterfell, instead of due to this politically weak generation of Starks, and due to the wars they had lost?

Well, Ramsay's "extracurricular activities" apparently began during the recent war, and there was the idea to settle new people on the Gift and have NW and Umber split the taxes. Or some kind of arrangement, but you know, winter.

[Kenton Stark]

I want to think its blood magic that keeps the others at bay or the wall standing or Real Winter from coming.

its also very practical that its just a method to ensure the continuing of the Stark bloodline in case a battle goes terribly wrong.

Nope. The fanboy in me wins out, With no Stark in Winterfell, all kinds of supernatural stuff is about to be unleashed. The Blood magic pact that held everything together, depends on a living Stark's blood being in Winterfell.

[Minuteman]

I think it does have something to do with the crypts. The Starks give their dead to the cold and the Targs to the fire. I recall where there was a wolf dream (Arya's I think) where the dire wolf recalls a mental connection to her other siblings to know what they are doing but the one sister is felt to be in the cold dark place under the ground that they are afraid to visit. But the dire wolf still senses Lady there and her still having her voice. I believe it is the same dream where Ghost is described as the other who stands apart and has no voice. I always felt that this wolf dream was significant.

[Nyrhex]

Well, Ramsay's "extracurricular activities" apparently began during the recent war, and there was the idea to settle new people on the Gift and have NW and Umber split the taxes. Or some kind of arrangement, but you know, winter.

Umber and Bolton were raping young brides for hundreds of years. Ned's excuse to not do anything about the Wildling raids and the refugees was that "winter is coming". No shit. It's 3 years in, Winter is only now showing up. There was time enough for one or two good harvasts if Ned had indended to aid the Northern frontier. Why did'nt he? Because Mormont was demanding that the people keep paying taxes to the NW. A legitimate demand, considering that Ned is plannins on basiaclly installing his bannermen in the Gift. If Ned was going to agree, there is no reason not to sent men, some second sons, his bastard and others, and some soldiers, and using this land to grow food (instead of feeding refugees from his and his bannermen's own stock, and we see just how little the bannermen care to secure food for winter) and securing the frontier. The only reason to wait with the plan is if he wants the NW to get so desperate that they would leave the issue of tax, and allow him to basically reclaim the Gift.

The Lannisters have been in Casterly Rock for the same time as the Starks. You don't hear about "there must always be a Lannister in Casterly Rock", because they don't need that kind of propaganda. It's a part of life, and they don't leave behind such disloyal lords like Bolton after several rebellions against them. Look at the Storm Kings. House Durrandon, later house Baratheon, traces it's line back to exactly the time of the first Stark (Bran the Builder apparently did a side gig for them with SE), and they literally trace themselves to actual gods. Do you hear "there must always be a Durrandon/Baratheon in SE"? No, because they too don't fall into thier own propaganda so hard.

All three families have ruled the same holdings for the same time. Only the Starks are soo full of themselves that they repeat to themselves how they always need to be here, and it's as natural as anything that they rule Winterfell. Jon handwaves away Winterfell as no more after his line is fallen. Stannis needs to correct him that granite does not burn so easily, and Ramsay took some squatters and rebuilt the critical parts in days. A Stark in Winterfell does not mean shit. Bran lost Winterfell, and Stannis is likely going to take it from Bolton. It's just a castle, and there isn't too much special about it.

[The King Of Cooked Steak]

Family tradition?

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

Umber and Bolton were raping young brides for hundreds of years. Ned's excuse to not do anything about the Wildling raids and the refugees was that "winter is coming". No shit. It's 3 years in, Winter is only now showing up. There was time enough for one or two good harvasts if Ned had indended to aid the Northern frontier. Why did'nt he? Because Mormont was demanding that the people keep paying taxes to the NW. A legitimate demand, considering that Ned is plannins on basiaclly installing his bannermen in the Gift. If Ned was going to agree, there is no reason not to sent men, some second sons, his bastard and others, and some soldiers, and using this land to grow food (instead of feeding refugees from his and his bannermen's own stock, and we see just how little the bannermen care to secure food for winter) and securing the frontier. The only reason to wait with the plan is if he wants the NW to get so desperate that they would leave the issue of tax, and allow him to basically reclaim the Gift.

The Lannisters have been in Casterly Rock for the same time as the Starks. You don't hear about "there must always be a Lannister in Casterly Rock", because they don't need that kind of propaganda. It's a part of life, and they don't leave behind such disloyal lords like Bolton after several rebellions against them. Look at the Storm Kings. House Durrandon, later house Baratheon, traces it's line back to exactly the time of the first Stark (Bran the Builder apparently did a side gig for them with SE), and they literally trace themselves to actual gods. Do you hear "there must always be a Durrandon/Baratheon in SE"? No, because they too don't fall into thier own propaganda so hard.

All three families have ruled the same holdings for the same time. Only the Starks are soo full of themselves that they repeat to themselves how they always need to be here, and it's as natural as anything that they rule Winterfell. Jon handwaves away Winterfell as no more after his line is fallen. Stannis needs to correct him that granite does not burn so easily, and Ramsay took some squatters and rebuilt the critical parts in days. A Stark in Winterfell does not mean shit. Bran lost Winterfell, and Stannis is likely going to take it from Bolton. It's just a castle, and there isn't too much special about it.

Well no, the Lannisters apparently into power some thousands of years earlier, but not apparently immediately after the Long Night was done, but that's really only a detail.

A lot of the northern families are particularly loyal to the Starks because they take refuge in its wintertown, and so a Stark has to be there to maintain those personal relationships. That's pretty much why the Mountains Clans are still in the tough going for "The Ned's little girl."

It also likely is due to the fact the Stark founder built the Wall, and so the phrase probably has some only half-remembered mythical meanings

Jon of course, wants to stay at the Wall to fight that war, and does not want to burn the Weirwoods.

Also Roose Bolton accused the Umbers of practising First Night, but we have no other evidence. But that's a debate for another time.

[Archmaester Drew]

Given that Bran the Builder supposedly built the Wall, founded the NW and built Winterfell, I think it must be related to the Wall and defense against the Others. We are told the NW forgot its true purpose (which was the defense against the Others). We are also told that many things are forgotten in Winterfell.

:agree:

And, the Pact is said to have taken place 2000 years before the Long Night, and occurred at The Isle of Faces in the God's Eye, not in the North.

:)

[Robb_Warged]

Because look at what happens when there isn't one there

[Starkfaithful85]

Umber and Bolton were raping young brides for hundreds of years. Ned's excuse to not do anything about the Wildling raids and the refugees was that "winter is coming". No shit. It's 3 years in, Winter is only now showing up. There was time enough for one or two good harvasts if Ned had indended to aid the Northern frontier. Why did'nt he? Because Mormont was demanding that the people keep paying taxes to the NW. A legitimate demand, considering that Ned is plannins on basiaclly installing his bannermen in the Gift. If Ned was going to agree, there is no reason not to sent men, some second sons, his bastard and others, and some soldiers, and using this land to grow food (instead of feeding refugees from his and his bannermen's own stock, and we see just how little the bannermen care to secure food for winter) and securing the frontier. The only reason to wait with the plan is if he wants the NW to get so desperate that they would leave the issue of tax, and allow him to basically reclaim the Gift.

The Lannisters have been in Casterly Rock for the same time as the Starks. You don't hear about "there must always be a Lannister in Casterly Rock", because they don't need that kind of propaganda. It's a part of life, and they don't leave behind such disloyal lords like Bolton after several rebellions against them. Look at the Storm Kings. House Durrandon, later house Baratheon, traces it's line back to exactly the time of the first Stark (Bran the Builder apparently did a side gig for them with SE), and they literally trace themselves to actual gods. Do you hear "there must always be a Durrandon/Baratheon in SE"? No, because they too don't fall into thier own propaganda so hard.

All three families have ruled the same holdings for the same time. Only the Starks are soo full of themselves that they repeat to themselves how they always need to be here, and it's as natural as anything that they rule Winterfell. Jon handwaves away Winterfell as no more after his line is fallen. Stannis needs to correct him that granite does not burn so easily, and Ramsay took some squatters and rebuilt the critical parts in days. A Stark in Winterfell does not mean shit. Bran lost Winterfell, and Stannis is likely going to take it from Bolton. It's just a castle, and there isn't too much special about it.

false Storms end was built by bran the builder winterfell was built we can assume during that time or close to it... the storm king was replaced by baratheon when he refused to marry his daughter to Aegon the conquerors's best friend/bastard brother who was a baratheon...lann the clever stole casterly rock from the casterly sometime after the age of heroes...neither have ruled their holdfasts as long as the starks...keep believing that winterfell and its crypts/godswood have no effect on the story...when the story plays out i can't wait to see how stupid you will feel...there is clearly something important in the crypts whether it be something magical or something that helps jon learn his parentage both will end up helping the starks regain their power

in short just stop hating

[Aetta]

It's perfectly a-trope-riate.

[Mikeygigs]

Because look at what happens when there isn't one there.

Pretty much this.

[Knight Of Winter]

I don't think there's anthing supernatural about this - it's simply a tradition and political (rather than literal) truth. Starks have been rulers of North for 8000 years, and it does well to remind all that Starks are ever-present in North's capital.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

It is there ancestral home .

[ShaggyCat]

I'm hoping it's to do with blood magic and whatever the hell led to the end of the Long Winter and the raising of the Wall. And now that Winter Is Coming and the Others are beating down on the Wall again, you'd think we'll find out by the end of the series.

Or.... it's just a saying and means nothing. But it's repeated so often that I doubt that.

[Le Cygne]

There's a line in Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons, "There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm" - they just kept repeating it, at some point you wanted nothing more than for there to NOT be a Starkadder at Cold Comfort Farm.

[Red Wedding Cake]

I favor some supernatural powers or ancient deal with the Others with the Stark bloodline. There's the warging and the greenseeing and Lady Stoneheart so far, but I don't think George wants to use anything supernatural as an out. Any of turn of events requiring the supernatural comes with steep price and bitter consequences, and I'd love to see what dire events would happen if having a Stark in Winterfell has some supernatural bite to it.

Lately though I've thought of Starks in Winterfell as a political necessity. The North is intensely loyal, but also vindictive. The North remembers in more ways than one. It's interesting to piece the clues together on the Grand Northern Conspiracy, or any Northern revenge plot, but imagine Northerners vindictive nature on each other. Eye for an eye would turn the whole North blind, filled with mistrust and family blood feuds. That is why the Starks and their penchant for unwavering honor and strict adherence to the laws must rule over Winterfell. The Starks are the only ones the North trusts to see justice carried out.

-- still hoping for an army of Stark zombies though --

[Minuteman]

I favor some supernatural powers or ancient deal with the Others with the Stark bloodline.

My suspicion is that it will tie in with the fable of Bael the Bard. Bael was defeated because he couldn't bring himself to harm his own son even though that son was unaware of his lineage. As half Stark (Other) and half Targ (R'hllor) he may be in the position to defeat either or both. The blue rose of winter plays prominent in that tale as it does with Lyanna and the House of the Undying image of a blue rose blooming on the Wall. Just a feeling, not a theory.

[NorthernXY]

Why aren't first Kings of Winter entombed on the first level of the catacombs? The more tombs you need to bury Kings in the North the further they'd dig down to make room for them. If you put the first Kings of Winter on the bottom floor and entombed newer dead kings on levels farther up, you'd eventually run out of room and have to dig further down or to the sides to make room.

Practically speaking it doesn't make sense other than for plot purposes that there is something important down in the crypts GRRM had to hide from the readers.