Trial by Folly: The Arianne Martell Reread Project [TWOW Arianne I spoilers]

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Doran doesn't seem to have left the Water Gardens for two years:

and

So Doran wouldn't have attended any feasts organized by Arianne. He didn't even attend his return feast.

I meant prior to those 2 years. When they were both living in Sunspear.

[Chebyshov]

It's also possible (though unlikely) that Arianne skipped feasts too. They didn't become her charge until after he took off for the WG. I could see her trying to avoid Doran for the 7 years they were both around, at least.

You're probably right about her placement for the suitor-feasts, which is why she was in close enough proximity to tie a knot in Grandison's beard had she wanted to. I have to imagine they had other feasts though (thinking there are probably a lot of holidays unique to Dorne...maybe I should post that in the debates thread). So her placement for the 5 years for which she was a "woman grown"/the assumed heir of Dorne and Doran was still around is that I was wondering about. I guess Oberyn could have taken that spot?

Hotah also may have been commenting on her "place of high honor," because in the past, the guest probably would have sat there. Yet Swann is put one seat over from Arianne.

What did everyone think of Doran/Arianne's strategy to figure out Swann?

[Amyra The Free Rider]

I just caught up with the latest couple of posts on the re-read project, it is still fantastic! I wanted to point out that in Doran's eventual confession of plans, carefully placed parenting/sculpting (such as words to arrows lesson point), and willingness and active actualization to establish a partnership in playing/the next moves he is the ONLY PARENT TO ACTUALLY PARENT. What I mean is that the GoT is a reality of every lord and their child and he is the only one to take his child under his wing and progress together rather than manipulate and/or try to protect without any communication or explanation (Tywin/Cersi/Balon/Lysa/Ned)(an exception may be the Queen of thornes and Margery but that's a grand parent and we don't know a whole lot there). the successful players train themselves or find a different tutor.

This rare (although perhaps it should be natural)transition has serious potential and is also just really interesting. It makes the martells seem yet more wise and normal/human again. Oh Dorne the weirdos who are most natural.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

.

What did everyone think of Doran/Arianne's strategy to figure out Swann?

They're using a combined tactic, both Arianne's strong points, and Dorans. While Arianne plays seductive, Doran plays the quiet prince, and both behaviors are, imo, to lure Balon into feeling safe. Yet Arianne is also given the oppertunity to manipulate once more, though not to get what she and Doran want, but to learn whether or not Balon is actually aware of Cersei's plans. Arianne and Doran play their parts perfectly for that, and combined, they get the words out of Balon that otherwise might never have been spoken.

[Chebyshov]

Hey guys. I just added a thing to the OP under a spoiler tag...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Hey guys. I just added a thing to the OP under a spoiler tag...

Nice intro ^^ :)

[Chebyshov]

Hey guys. So I just did a thing. Due to the closing of Arianne's ADWD content this week, I decided to write an essay detailing the perfect parallel between her and Doran, and why it indicates that Doran isn't keeping secrets or testing her anymore moving into TWOW.

I posted it in the General forum, hoping to sway some Dornish Master-Planists, though I'm really hoping everyone here might like to read it? Maybe? I spent a bit of time on it... :leaving:

You can find it here: Love, Trust, Guilt: Doran's not keeping anything from Arianne.

Because we're a bit more steeped in it, I've also quoted my conclusion below:

Conclusion
To briefly summarize, Doran and Arianne not only have eerily similar characterizations, but nearly identical plot arcs. In AFFC/ADWD, both their storylines:

• Begin with the learning of deeply upsetting information

• Center around enacting plans for equally just causes

• Involve long-term planning and resource gathering over the span of years

• Have plans that are marked by keeping secrets closely guarded

• Have plans that are colored by false yet reasonable assumptions about one another

• Have high expectations at the start of their plans

• Have unforeseen political influences alter and shape their plans

• Have their plots come crashing down as a result of their misunderstanding of each other

• Have words be a key element in the collapse of their plans

• Involve a period of grief, with internalized guilt moving forward

• End with a mutual trust and understanding of one another gained, and father/daughter synchronization moving forward

Because we don’t know how Doran planned in the past, and because much of the Dornish-Revenge-Plot remains largely opaque to us (even with the TWOW sample chapter), it is often tempting to credit Doran as having more knowledge at the end of ADWD than his daughter does. This could also be because Arianne gets a lot of slack for her Queenmaker plan, despite the fact that it was thought-out and planned over many years like Doran's objectives were.

Yet due to this near perfect parallel in story arc, as well as Doran and Arianne’s incredibly similar characterizations, I would argue instead that the narrative is that of a father and daughter who start out in opposition, and end in synchrony. Both characters made mistakes centered on their underestimations and false impressions of each other. Once these misconceptions were stripped away through shockingly similar means, Doran and Arianne were able to rebuild their relationship and move forward together with open communication, love, and trust. Both of their displays of internalized guilt suggest that neither one would want to let the other down again. For these reasons, I find the idea of Doran still actively manipulating or hiding something from Arianne anathema. What is clear is that the convergence of their plots has placed both characters in a strong position, poised to accomplish a great deal together, as the cold winds rise.

But yeah, I'm kind of realizing that Arianne is just Doran with teats. It's wonderful.

Nice intro ^^ :)

Heehee, glad someone liked it :P

[SeanF]

I'd agree, if we didn't have her chapter from TWOW. I think her plans might be about to diverge sharply from her father's. But, that discussion is best left for the final essay.

[Loras]

I've spent a great deal of today reading the analysis of Arianne's character contained within this thread.

Arianne was one of my favourite characters in 'A Feast for Crows' and I was deeply disappointed by Martin's decision to remove her chapters from 'A Dance With Dragons'.

I'd just like to thank the contributors of this thread for the thought provoking articles that they have produced, particularly the analysis of Arianne/Doran's relationship and that conversation from 'The Princess In The Tower'. I had always thought that Arianne had lost that particular conversation.

Thank you all very much!

[Chebyshov]

I'd agree, if we didn't have her chapter from TWOW. I think her plans might be about to diverge sharply from her father's. But, that discussion is best left for the final essay.

Let's save that for a few days from now ;).

I've spent a great deal of today reading the analysis of Arianne's character contained within this thread.

Arianne was one of my favourite characters in 'A Feast for Crows' and I was deeply disappointed by Martin's decision to remove her chapters from 'A Dance With Dragons'.

I'd just like to thank the contributors of this thread for the thought provoking articles that they have produced, particularly the analysis of Arianne/Doran's relationship and that conversation from 'The Princess In The Tower'. I had always thought that Arianne had lost that particular conversation.

Thank you all very much!

Glad you've enjoyed this! :cheers:

Yeah, certainly the dynamics of that conversation are easy to overlook the first go around. I always viewed it as Doran chastising Arianne, and then finally deciding to let her in on the plans prior to this project. Going through line-by-line was an excellent and fruitful idea on Julia Martell's part.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Why do you guys think that in order to get Myrcella to lie, Doran used Arianne, and not Trystane?

Trystane and Myrcella were growing close, and while we don't know much about Trystane, I assume that he is still listening to Doran quite well. Whereas Arianne, however, was enjoying a nice captivity at this time. Do you guys think that Doran had tried the Trystane tactic first, and only send in Arianne when that failed? I'd guess that there would only be one chance for convincing Myrcella to lie about what happened. In that case, Doran placed all his cards on Arianne. But why?

Was he completely aware of her strength where manipulation was concerned? And might that have been, in part, due to Arianne's manipulate of Cedra? Did Doran figure that this was what he needed, yet couldn't accomplish himself, therefor needing Arianne?

Another thing that came to mind, was Trystane's location during Dance. He isn't mentioned to have been present at the feast for Balon. As a 13 year old boy, I'd suppose that had he been in Sunspear, he would have been at the feast. Yet not a single mention of him. If this isn't simply a case of forgetting to mention someone (like what happened to Bran and the feast to welcome Robert to the north), I would personally suspect that Trystane was at the Water Gardens with Myrcella..

But in all of this, I wonder. Doran has told Quentyn, and now he has told Arianne. Yet what on earth did he tell Trystane, when his fiancée suddenly disappeared, only to reappear with a scar on her face, an ear missing, and a protector dead?

[Julia Martell]

I imagine they told Trystane what they told the rest of the world: that Darkstar attacked Myrcella and killed Arys. They probably have some story about trying to move her to a safer location, or something.

The Queenmaker plot must have made Doran realize just how much Myrcella trusted Arianne. Maybe Myrcella was asking for her in her feverish delirium. ( :crying: poor kid....) And you're right about them probably only having one shot at getting her to lie.

And Doran was probably SUPER reluctant to involve Trystane, just on principle.

[Chebyshov]

I also think that as much as Myrcella enjoys hanging out with Tryst, Arianne is more of a role model. Plus Arianne actually being there during Arys's death allows her to "explain the situation" or why the lie is necessary to Myrcella better than Tryst, who was probably still trying to figure out why MyrcellaRosamund wouldn't let him near her. What did we call her? Fauxcella?

Another thing that came to mind, was Trystane's location during Dance. He isn't mentioned to have been present at the feast for Balon. As a 13 year old boy, I'd suppose that had he been in Sunspear, he would have been at the feast. Yet not a single mention of him. If this isn't simply a case of forgetting to mention someone (like what happened to Bran and the feast to welcome Robert to the north), I would personally suspect that Trystane was at the Water Gardens with Myrcella..

I think once Myrcella was patched up and chilling at the WG, they summoned Tryst. Let her have a friend around and all. They do feel bad about what happened to her, and at least Tryst could cheer her up with his bad cyvasse skills. Besides

Arianne II summaries confirm that Tyrst is still at the WG when Myrcella has departed for KL with Tyene and Nym. So he may have just been there the whole time.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I suppose there are things that Doran didn't want Trystane to know, like the involvement of Arianne in the whole thing.

[SeanF]

Slightly O/T, but from what I've seen of TWOIATF, there are two lessons every Westerosi should take to heart:-

1. Never invade Dorne.

2. Commit suicide rather than let the Dornish take you captive (and that applies whether you're male or female).

[Julia Martell]

Hey guys, I hope you all enjoyed your week off. :wideeyed:

After much deliberation, Cheb and I decided that we should post the tWoW stuff in here with a title edit and the following:

WARNING!

From this point, this thread contains SPOILERS for the advanced material for The Winds of Winter. Particularly for the Arianne I chapter as released on the The World of Ice and Fire app.

You have been warned.

[Julia Martell]

The Winds of Winter: Arianne I

Summary:

Arianne recalls the morning she left the Water Gardens on her task. He father begs her to, above all, take care and travel safely. He stands up on his horribly painful, gouty legs and kisses her on both cheeks. Arianne is so moved by this show of love and faith that she almost cries.

She did not shed a tear. Arianne Martell was a princess of Dorne, and Dornishmen did not waste water lightly. It was a near thing, though. It was not her father’s kisses nor his hoarse words that made her eyes glisten, but the effort that brought him to his feet, his legs trembling under him, his joints swollen and inflamed with gout. Standing was an act of love. Standing was an act of faith.

She rides out across the sands towards Ghost Hill with six companions. They are:

Ser Daemon Sand, the Bastard of Godsgrace, her Sworn Shield, failed suitor, and former lover.
Ser Joss Hood and Ser Geribald Shells, two young knights out of Sunspear.
Lady Jayne Ladybright, her lady-in-waiting
Elia Sand, her cousin, the eldest of Oberyn and Ellaria’s daughters. Fourteen years old and in charge of driving Arianne crazy.
Nate, called Feathers, a servant from the Water Gardens, in charge of their seven ravens.

She recalls her father’s instructions to send news whenever they hear it, but make a special effort to separate truth from rumour. She and Ellaria seem to agree that war is inevitable, a fact that Doran seems to still be hopefully denying. Ellaria in particular is gloomy. She separates her daughters “the better to survive the carnage”.

Arianne reflects how lonely she feels on the journey. she hardly knows any of her companions, except for Elia, who is still a child, and Daemon Sand, who she seems to be deeply uncomfortable being in the same room with since the failure of their relationship.

She thinks about her friends and co-conspirators, who have been scatter all over the world after the failure of the Queenmaker plot. She still seems to think one of them betrayed her, but she doesn’t blame them, only herself. She’s especially full of regret about Arys Oakheart, characterizing their relationship as one of abuse.

“Arianne missed Ser Arys too, more than she ever would have thought. He loved me madly, she told herself, yet I was never more than fond of him. I made use of him in my bed and in my plot, took his love and took his honor, gave him nothing but my body. In the end he could not live with what we’d done. Why else would her white knight have charged right into Areo Hotah’s longaxe, to die the way he did?”

She also thinks about Darkstar. She confides to Daemon Sand that she hopes Obara has killed him by now, but Daemon points out that Darkstar could have killed Obara just as easily. But Arianne reassures herself that Areo Hotah, at least, is more than a match for Darkstar.

Daemon reenforced the notion that Darkstar is, like, the worst person ever. He says Prince Oberyn never liked or trusted him, and indeed regretted not having the chance to kill him. Arianne takes the opportunity to beat herself up for falling for Darkstar in the first place, but she tries to tell herself that she’s learned her lesson and won’t be fooled by pretty boys again.

When they start riding again the next day, Arianne just happens to find herself riding next to Daemon. After trying very hard not to oggle him too much she asks him to tell her everything he knows about Jon Connington. Daemon says he’s dead, but Arianne asks him to indulge her. He tells her some stuff, but doesn’t seem to know anything she doesn’t know already. She worries that JonCon will outclass her, especially when considering the idea that he won’t be susceptible to her womanly wiles.

That night, she sits alone in her tent and rereads the letter Jon Connington sent to Prince Doran.

To Prince Doran of House Martell,
You will remember me, I pray. I knew your sister well,
and was a leal servant of your good-brother. I grieve
for them as you do. I did not die, no more than did
your sister’s son. To save his life we kept him hidden,
but the time for hiding is done. A dragon has returned
to Westeros to claim his birthright and seek vengeance
for his father, and for the princess Elia, his mother.
In her name I turn to Dorne. Do not forsake us.
Jon Cognition
Lord of Griffin’s Roost
Hand of the True King

She thinks back to the night when her father got that raven and how upset and confused Doran was. He asks where Daenerys is, questions whether this is his nephew, and asks why he would bring mercenaries instead of dragons, but Arianne knows that what he really wants to know is where Quentyn is. She thinks of the two Dornish armies waiting in the Boneway and the Prince’s Pass, basically waiting for her to make a decision.

When the party arrives at Ghost Hill they are greeted by Lady Toland’s heir Valena. She and Arianne seem to know each other. Arianne challenges her to a race to the castle gates, which Arianne almost wins but, at the last second, Elia Sand rushes past them.

Elia takes this opportunity to show us how VERY fourteen she is, introducing herself as “Lady Lance, the girl jouster.” Arianne tells her to shut up and take a bath.

That night, Arianne and her knights have dinner with Lady Toland and Valena, and the younger daughter Teora, who is described as quiet, especially compared to her mother and sister.

They talk about all the rumours in the rumour mill: the Golden Company, Jon Connington, castles being taken. Arianne worries for her friend Spotted Sylva on Greenstone, rumoured to be taken. She especially whats to know about the rumours of elephants, asking if they’re sure it’s not dragons.

They go into other crazy rumours about pirates and krakens. What seems to be true is that there have been ships landing men on the south shore of Cape Wrath. Arianne thinks that if this were Quentyn, he would bring Daenerys to Dorne, not land in the Stormlands. She wants to ask specifically about her brother, but stops herself.

Lady Toland is nervous about the pirates. She asks if she should bring some of her men home from hanging out in the Boneway with Lord Yronwood, but Daemon Sand shuts her down immediately, and Arianne agrees. She says her father will know what to do when he learns the truth.

Teora decides to speak up. She says the truth is: dragons. Her mother and sister belittle her, dismissing it as just one of her dreams, but she’s adamant.

"How could you possibly know that?" her sister asked, with a note of scorn in her voice. "One of your little dreams?"
Teora gave a tiny nod, chin trembling. "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died."

Teora runs out of the room in a storm of angst, embarrassing her mother. Arianne encourages her to not be too hard, remembering her own angsty adolescence. Deamon snarks a little, probably embarrassing everyone, before asking about the sigil of House Toland.

“A dragon eating its own tail, aye," Valena said. "From the days of Aegon’s Conquest. He did not conquer here. Elsewhere he burned his foes, him and his sisters, but here we melted away before them, leaving only stone and sand for them to burn. And round and round the dragons went, snapping at their tails for want of any other food, till they were tied in knots."

That night, Arianne takes a walk on the battlement in an attempt to clear her head. Daemon finds her there. She gushes over his hotness and her happy memories of their relationship a little before propositioning him, but he rejects her. Quite rudely too.

Arianne gave him her most seductive smile. "We might share a bed together."
Ser Daemon’s face was stone. "Have you forgotten, princess? I am bastard born." He took her hand in his. "If I am unworthy of this hand, how can I be worthy of your cunt?"
She snatched her hand away. "You deserve a slap for that."
"My face is yours. Do what you will."

She tries to take it in her stride, using him to get some feedback on her thoughts. Daemon is extremely skeptical of Young Griff’s identity but the conversation quickly turns personal.

"If not, though… if this truly is Jon Connington, if the boy is Rhaegar’s son… "
"Are you hoping that he is, or that he’s not?"
"I… it would give great joy to my father if Elia’s son were still alive. He loved his sister well."
"It was you I asked about, not your father."
So it was. "I was seven when Elia died. They say I held her daughter Rhaenys once, when I was too young to remember. Aegon will be a stranger to me, whether true or false." The princess paused. "We looked for Rhaegar’s sister, not his son." Her father had confided in Ser Daemon when he chose him as his daughter’s shield; with him at least she could speak freely. "I would sooner it were Quentyn who’d returned."
"Or so you say," said Daemon Sand. "Good night, princess." He bowed to her, and left her standing there.”

Arianne reassures herself that she would never wish any harm on Quentyn.

“What sort of sister would I be, if I did not want my brother back? It was true, she had resented Quentyn for all those years that she had thought their father meant to name him as his heir in place of her, but that had turned out to be just a misunderstanding. She was the heir to Dorne, she had her father’s word on that. Quentyn would have his dragon queen, Daenerys.”

She thinks about the first Daenerys and how she was obsessed with her portrait as a girl, praying every night for the gods to make her as pretty as her. She says that Quentyn must have prayed for something else, since he turned out “an earnest boy, well-behaved and dutiful, but dull. And plain, so plain.” She finds the idea of him being king a little ridiculous.

She further reflects on how, really, she hardly knows her brother. Her father had fostered him out to heal the rift between two families, but it had caused a rift within her own family. These thoughts seem to make Arianne very uncomfortable, and she goes to bed. (Alone :frown5: )

On the ship across the Sea of Dorne, Jayne Ladybright is seasick and Elia acts like a jerk, making fun of her for it.

"Someone needs to spank that child," Joss Hood was heard to say… but Elia was amongst those who heard him say it.
"I am almost a woman grown, ser," she responded haughtily. "I’ll let you spank me, though… but first you’ll need to tilt with me, and knock me off my horse."

Arianne doesn’t take any of her punk attitude.

Arianne had heard enough. "You may be a lance, but you are no lady. Go below and stay there till we reach land.”

She passes the time on the ship playing, and loosing, at cyvasse. Daemon Sand is a distracting, sexy, smug-face.

Ser Garibald was kind enough to say that she played a gallant game, but Daemon mocked her. "You have other pieces beside the dragon, princess. Try moving them sometime."
"I like the dragon." She wanted to slap the smile off his face. Or kiss it off, perhaps. The man was as smug as he was comely. Of all the knights in Dorne, why did my father chose this one to be my shield? He knows our history. "It is just a game.”

She chews the fat with him so more, this time about Viserys. She’s quite disturbed about how his sister let him die. She asks Daemon how they can be sure this Queen doesn’t take after her father in being an insane tyrant.

"We cannot know," Ser Daemon said. "We can only hope.”

[Julia Martell]

Analysis

Standing was an act of love, Standing was an act of faith

Do I still have to convince you that Doran and Arianne trust each other at this point? Apparently.

Fire and blood was what Jon Connington (if indeed it was him) was offering as well. Or was it? "He comes with sellswords, but no dragons," Prince Doran had told her, the night the raven came. "The Golden Company is the best and largest of the free companies, but ten thousand mercenaries cannot hope to win the Seven Kingdoms. Elia’s son… I would weep for joy if some part of my sister had survived, but what proof do we have that this is Aegon?" His voice broke when he said that. "Where are the dragons?" he asked. "Where is Daenerys?" and Arianne knew that he was really saying, "Where is my son?"

He sent for her first. Probably in addition to her fortnightly summons to the Water Gardens.

And he’s not just sharing his plans, he’s sharing his feelings, his anxieties. He’s not all-knowing anymore.

And he goes out of his way to show her the extent to which he trusts her. He shows her he trusts her with information, giving her the original of the letter from JonCon.

“The fate of Dorne goes with you daughter,” he said, as he pressed the parchment into her hand. “Go swiftly, go safely, be my eyes and ears and voice… but most of all, take care.”

He shows that he trusts her judgement by giving her a rather important responsibility.

In the Boneway and the Prince’s Pass, two Dornish hosts had massed, and there they sat, sharpening their spears, polishing their armor, dicing, drinking, quarreling, their numbers dwindling by the day, waiting, waiting, waiting for the Prince of Dorne to loose them on the enemies of House Martell. Waiting for the dragons. For fire and blood. For me. One word from Arianne and those armies would march… so long as that word was dragon. If instead the word she sent was war, Lord Yronwood and Lord Fowler and their armies would remain in place.

And the continued verbal and physical affection between them in The Watcher, in contrast to the coldness and snark of The Princess in the Tower, is on display.

On the morning that she left the Water Gardens, her father rose from his chair to kiss her on both cheeks. “The fate of Dorne goes with you daughter,” he said, as he pressed the parchment into her hand. “Go swiftly, go safely, be my eyes and ears and voice… but most of all, take care.”

Doran begs her, twice in as may little flashbacks to, above everything, be safe. Which probably made Arianne feel valued in exactly the way his not coming to the feast she threw for him didn’t.

If Doran’s preoccupation is to show Arianne that he trusts her, Arianne preoccupation is living up
to the trust. This is most evident in her self talk, where she continually reminds herself of the responsibility and faith her father is placing in her, and reassuring herself that she has learned from the mistakes of the past.

It was not her father’s kisses nor his hoarse words that made her eyes glisten, but the effort that brought him to his feet, his legs trembling under him, his joints swollen and inflamed with gout. Standing was an act of love. Standing was an act of faith.
He believes in me. I will not fail him.

Pretty boys had ever been her weakness, particularly the ones who were dark and dangerous as well. That was before, when I was just a girl, she told herself. I am a woman now, my father’s daughter. I have learned that lesson.

In contrast to the scorn she had held him in previously, when she was planning his forced retirement to the Water Gardens, she now has him up on a pedestal, striving to be “her father’s daughter”.

Like a drunkard throwing dice

Arianne is hard on herself. Very hard on herself. She sees the Queenmaker plot as a complete
failure without any merit whatsoever. It’s quite possible that the only person who harder on Arianne Martell than the average poster in the General section of this forum, is Arianne Martell herself.

Arianne missed her friends. […] One of them had betrayed her, but she missed them all the same. It was my own fault. Arianne had made them part of her plot to steal off with Myrcella Baratheon and crown her queen, an act of rebellion meant to force her father’s hand, but someone’s loose tongue had undone her. The clumsy conspiracy had accomplished nothing, except to cost poor Myrcella part of her face, and Ser Arys Oakheart his life.
[…] I was a foolish willful girl, playing at the game of thrones like a drunkard rolling dice.
The cost of her folly had been dear. […]
Dayne was her most grievous sin, the one that Arianne most regretted. With one stroke of his sword, he had changed her botched plot into something foul and bloody.

I’m not going to retread old ground and talk about the merits of the Queenmaker plot, but Arianne had made her own opinion quite clear. She has very little faith in her own leadership abilities.

This is highlighted when she mentally prepares herself for meeting with JonCon. She worries that a man who has the patience and cunning to fake his own death will not be susceptible to her womanly wiles and that she’s not match for him.

"Did he have a wife? A paramour?"
Ser Daemon shrugged. "Not that I have ever heard."
That was troubling too. Ser Arys Oakheart had broken his vows for her, but it did not sound as if Jon Connington could be similarly swayed. Can I match such a man with words alone?

Let’s look at some of the things Arianne was able to accomplish “with words alone”.

Myrcella: I’ve mentioned this several times. Myrcella will do literally anything Arianne asks her to. Convincing her to take the Martell line with Swann was such a forgone conclusion that we apperently don’t have to see it.
Cedra: Again, all ready covered. She pulled an asset out of nowhere.
Obara: I really want to know what Arianne said to Obara to make her mostly behave herself like that.

Or what about that one time when she used her words to get everything she ever wanted and more?

Throughout this chapter she is shown planning, reflecting, and gathering information. Her conversations with Daemon Sand provide a window into her thinking. I guess, in addition to developing their relationship, Martin wanted to avoid nothing but internal dialogue.

There are four of these conversations. The first is when they make camp the first night when crossing the broken arm. Arianne and Daemon discuss Obara’s mission to catch Darkstar and Arianne takes the opportunity to reflect on the people she chooses to surround herself with. The second is the next day on the road. They pool together everything they know about Jon Connington and Arianne tries to decide what the best strategy for dealing with him is. The third conversation is the one with the blue balls. Though it quickly gets side tracked into more personal matters, it shows her constant preoccupation with figuring out the truth of what is going on and, I would argue, her anxiety about making the wrong choice. She asks about the likelihood of Young Griff being the genuine Aegon, but can’t seem to decide which option she finds less terrifying. Their final conversation involves Arianne losing at cyvasse. I will be examining it more indepth in my section on Quentyn, but shows her thoughts constantly on the various possible factors and angles of the situation in the Stormlands.

Arianne doesn’t waste any time on this trip, her mind is constantly working.

She also continues to display her people skills, being social and pleasant when needed, such as at Ghost Hill. Being authoritative when need, like whenever Elia opens her mouth, and being very deliberate in her sharing of information.

Everywhere the Dragons Danced the People Died

I choose not to get side tracked by speculating as to why little Teora Toland might be having prophetic dreams. Feel free to do so, but I’m content to just accept that she has these dreams and that they do mean something.

Lady Nymella Toland, who doesn’t appear to have a spouse :bang: , and her older daughter get pumped for information by Arianne. There are a few interesting points here, like how the easy way Arianne and Valena talk to each other being indicative of the good relationship she has with the younger generation of lordlings in Dorne and the way Lady Toland accepts Arianne being envoy for her father without comment and asks her for military advice is indicative of her status as heir being accepted, if it was ever in doubt, by the lords in general, but this is mostly exposition. The real story is Teora and her dream.

Little Teora has had these dreams before, it would seem, and she also seems to have reasons to trust in them, despite the insistence of everyone around her that it’s just puberty and sugar talking.

"Seven save us." Lady Nymella gave an exasperated sigh.
"If you did not eat so many creamcakes you would not have such dreams. Rich foods are not for girls your age, when your humors are so unbalanced. Maester Toman says — "
"I hate Maester Toman," Teora said. Then she bolted from the table, leaving her lady mother to make apologies for her.

Teora’s dream says: there are dragons coming, and they will bring death with them.

Dragons have brought death to Dorne before, not least at Ghost Hill. (Seriously, it’s an awesome story, it’s on page 243 of the World Book.) I doubt the implications of dragons “dancing” in Dorne once more is lost on anyone, especially not Arianne, who has reason to believe that this prediction might come true, and sooner than people think.

The question that those of us who eagerly await the next volume can’t help but ask is: which dragon does she mean? Does she mean The Prince formerly known as Young Griff, or Daenerys with her literal dragons? Or both? Will they fight each other with Dorne as their battlefield?

Arianne seems to have taken these questions to heart. In her two remaining musing sessions with Daemon, she seems mostly concerned with the characters and potential motives of the two possible dragons, trying to guess at these things based on reported actions and familial relationships.

"If not, though… if this truly is Jon Connington, if the boy is Rhaegar’s son… “

A hundred years ago, Daenerys Targaryen came to Dorne to make a peace. Now another comes to make a war,[…]

"Just… why did Daenerys let it happen? Viserys was her brother. All that remained of her own blood.”

"She is the Mad King’s daughter," the princess said. "How do we do know — "

King Quentyn

Arianne and her brother Quentyn don’t have a good relationship, at least not since they were children.

"I love my brother," said Arianne, though only the moon could hear her. Though if truth be told, she scarcely knew him. […] And in due time, Quentyn was given to Lord Anders to foster as a sign of trust. That helped to heal the breach between Sunspear and the Yronwoods, but it had opened new ones between Quentyn and the Sand Snakes… and Arianne had always been closer to her cousins than to her distant brother.

We know from The Queenmaker that she she ascribes motives and characteristics to Quentyn that we, as readers of his arc in aDwD, know he does not possess. She actively, in a Cognitive Behavioural Therapy kind of way, is trying to correct the thoughts about Quentyn that she’s not proud of, but the kind of feelings that she had about Quentyn can’t be expected to disappear overnight, not even with liberal application of Martell Guilt.

Her thoughts on Quentyn at this point seem… less than charitable.

Her brother was an earnest boy, well-behaved and dutiful, but dull. And plain, so plain. The gods had given Arianne the beauty she had prayed for, but Quentyn must have prayed for something else. His head was overlarge and sort of square, his hair the color of dried mud. His shoulders slumped as well, and he was too thick about the middle. He looks too much like Father.

To be fair, earnest, well-behaved, and dull is a pretty good assessment of Quentyn, in quite direct contrast to Arianne, who’s calculating, proud, headstrong, and very charismatic and interesting. But his well-behaved dutifulness is exactly the quality she had always thought her father valued in Quentyn and who’s lack he regretted in Arianne. Those feelings of not measuring up are unlikely to just disappear.

Her focus on his physical appearance is also rather strange. We know that Arianne has a weakness for pretty faces, and we know that her ability to manipulate men with her charm and her body is the one ability she still seems to have confidence in, but it still seems rather petty of her.

Perhaps the line “He looks too much like Father.” is the key. Perhaps those old anxieties about Doran preferring Quentyn to her because of his perceived similarity to himself is still there, even if it’s subconsciously.

Perhaps she simply thinks that the idea of Quentyn wooing a Queen and riding a dragon is ridiculous because, well… he’s Quentyn and she know him better than she thinks she does. This may be giving her too much credit. “At least I’m better looking than him” is not something to be proud of, but it is understandable.

It’s very interesting that Quentyn is now in the position that Arianne unknowingly was for most of her life; set to become consort to the ruler on the Iron Throne. How does Arianne feel about this exactly? It’s kind of hard to tell.

She was the heir to Dorne, she had her father’s word on that. Quentyn would have his dragon queen, Daenerys.
[…]
A hundred years ago, Daenerys Targaryen came to Dorne to make a peace. Now another comes to make a war, and my brother will be her king and consort. King Quentyn. Why did that sound so silly?
Almost as silly as Quentyn riding on a dragon.

Her residual sense of inferiority to Quentyn is undeniable, but so is her relief at having that security of her birthright that she lacked for so long and that was so important to her, important enough that she was driven to rather desperate extremities to secure it.

It would have been one thing, I think, if she had grown up expecting to be Queen, but she didn’t. She grew up expecting to be Princess of Dorne, she fought to be Princess of Dorne. Would she give that up? Maybe, if she thought it was her duty. But these feelings she has, of jealousy towards her brother and sense of inadequacy when compared to him, are balanced out by her awareness and guilt over the injustice of her thoughts towards him.

"I would sooner it were Quentyn who’d returned."
"Or so you say," said Daemon Sand. "Good night, princess." He bowed to her, and left her standing there.
What did he mean by that? Arianne watched him walk away. What sort of sister would I be, if I did not want my brother back? […]
"I love my brother," said Arianne, though only the moon could hear her. […]
"We are still the same blood, though," she whispered. "Of course I want my brother home. I do."

This is why, for all the difficulty she has in feeling affection for her brother at this point, I find it difficult to believe she would consciously place herself in opposition to him at this point.

Her feelings about Daenerys seem almost as complicated. I’ve touched on the cultural-baggage induced terror that Arianne must feel at the tought of a Targaryan with a dragon hanging out in Dorne, but Arianne also identifies with Dany. I mean, who’s she talking about here, Dany being stuck in a tent smelling of horse, or Arianne stuck at the Twins being groped by Walder Frey? Wasn’t she willing to do to Quentyn, what Dany did to Viserys?

Perhaps, thought Arianne, or perhaps Daenerys realized that once her brother was crowned and wed to me, she would be doomed to spend the rest of her life sleeping in a tent and smelling like a horse. "She is the Mad King’s daughter," the princess said. "How do we do know — “

[Julia Martell]

Random Observations and Bits (with Chebyshov)

She did not shed a tear. Arianne Martell was a princess of Dorne, and Dornishmen did not waste water lightly.

This really puts how weepy she was in The Princess in the Tower into perspective. Apperently, she was very upset in that chapter.

Obara and Ser Balon Swann are off hunting Ser Gerald Dayne. We can presume Arianne and Doran’s plan to get Myrcella to lie to him went off without a hitch.

Elia Sand led the way, her black braid flying behind her as she raced across the dry, cracked plains and up into the hills. The girl was mad for horses, which might be why she often smelled like one, to the despair of her mother. Sometimes Arianne felt sorry for Ellaria. Four girls, and every one of them her father’s daughter.

So Ellaria is a conscientious mother who wants her daughters to be lady-like. Who would have thought?

In the Boneway and the Prince’s Pass, two Dornish hosts had massed, and there they sat, sharpening their spears, polishing their armor, dicing, drinking, quarreling, their numbers dwindling by the day, waiting, waiting, waiting for the Prince of Dorne to loose them on the enemies of House Martell.

These armies have been there for close to a year at this point. I bet they’re bored.

We can assume that the Pirate King Lady Toland mentioned is Aurane Waters, lately of Cersei’s Small Council.

First line has the phrase "north by northwest," is that a sly nod to the Hitchcock film, which deals with mistaken identity?

They crossed the sands in two long days and the better part of two nights, stopping thrice to change their horses.

I'm loving the Dornish infrastructure where there's strategic stops with fresh sand steeds ready to go for crossing the desert.

Poor JonCon, having to evoke Elia's name so much.

I'm kind of hoping Arianne sends "war," and it gets intercepted and the rest of the kingdoms freak out.

I like that Maestor Toman is preaching about a handy sugar-free diet. Maybe he'll recommend paleo next.

Their ship was called the Peregrine.

Their ship is named after the most adorable hawk in existence.

[Julia Martell]

Consider this material supplementary, since not every shares my interest in Daemianne or deconstructing cyvasse-based metaphors.

A Princess and a guy like me

Fair waring: this is my One True Pairing. I think Arianne and Daemon Sand are perfect for each other and meant to be together. I may or may not have a notebook covered in little hearts with “Arianne + Daemon” written in the middle.

There are a few things we know about Arianne and Ser Daemon Sands relationship as of this chapter. We know that they grew up together, we know that when they were both fourteen they had a physical relationship, certainly Arianne’s and probably Daemon’s first physical relationship, and that it was extremely emotionally charged. We know that the relationship ended after Daemon asked Doran for permission to marry Arianne and was refused. And we know that neither of them is quite over it, even after almost ten years.

Daemon has a chip on his shoulder, one that it’s tough to blame him for, especially from our perceptive in the 21st century. He not “good enough” for her, everyone says so, even Arianne.

[…]things had never been the same between her and the Bastard of Godsgrace after her father refused his offer for her hand. He was a boy then, and bastard born, no fit consort for a princess of Dorne, he should have known better. And it was my father’s will, not mine.

Given the fact that, apparently the legitimate daughter of a landed knight is, according to Quentyn, obviously not highborn enough to marry the Prince’s younger son, the poor kid must have been absolutely head-over-heels, as well as in possession of a massive pair of balls. (This is the same man who “demanded” that Doran release the Sand Snakes, so I don’t think balls have ever been an issue for him.)

From his perceptive at this point, where he seems to have gained the respect of everyone on his own merits as Oberyn’s former squire and “one of Dorne’s finest swords” this reminder that he will never, ever be good enough for the woman he loves has to hurt.

That Arianne still has feeling for him is obvious. Her physical and emotional desire for him leap off the page whenever they’re alone together. She has nothing but fond memories of their relationship and would resume it in a heartbeat.

It also clearly wasn’t her choice to end it in the first place. The bolded section in the quotation above is especially interesting to me. As we’ve been discussing for several weeks now, Arianne isn’t in the habit of assigning blame to people other than herself, yet here she is saying the end of her relationship with Daemon wasn’t her fault. Weird, right?

The thing is: Arianne had to have know that Doran made the right call, even given her ignorance of the fact that she was already betrothed. No matter her feelings on the subject, she knew that she couldn’t marry him.

“I know it is my duty to provide an heir for Dorne, I have never been forgetful of that. I would have wed, and gladly […] ”

“The freedom that Prince Oberyn allowed his bastard daughters had never been shared by Prince Doran’s lawful heir. Arianne must wed; she had accepted that. Drey had wanted her, she knew; so had his brother Deziel, the Knight of Lemonwood. Daemon Sand had gone so far as to ask for her hand. Daemon was bastard-born, however, and Prince Doran did not mean for her to wed a Dornishman.

Arianne had accepted that as well”

And Arianne is not afflicted with Robb Stark disease. (Boy, is she ever not.) She would not have thought the fact that Daemon wasn’t marriage material was a reason to end their relationship. I don’t think he is holding on to the notion that marriage was ever really a possibility, however, it does seem that she was unable to convince him they could have had a relationship without it. (I mean, they’re Dornish, it’s not like there aren’t established social structures to deal specifically with this issue.) And given the fact that she is afflicted with Martell Communication Deficiency Syndrome™, I doubt she tried.

And her bedhopping behaviour since probably did little to reassure him that he was ever anything other than another notch on her belt, hence: "If I am unworthy of this hand, how can I be worthy of your cunt?” (Still: ouch. It’s like a punch to the gut.)

I think that this relationship is an extremely important part of her character so I don’t feel bad about spending so many words talking about it… but let’s get back to the chapter, shall we?

Doran chose Daemon to be Arianne’s sworn shield and he chose to trust him with super secret information about how he’s spent the last seventeen years plotting treason. The reason for the first is obvious, Daemon is an extremely capable warrior who would gladly take any number of bullets for his daughter, there's probably is no better choice, but the reason for the second is, I think, another sign of the progress that has been made in Doran and Arianne’s relationship.

Doran didn’t trust enough people. That is what bit him in the butt in terms of his revenge plot. He was so obsessed with secrecy to the point that he seemed to make all of his decisions in an echo chamber. He doesn't want her to repeat his mistake. It makes sense that he would want Arianne to have someone trustworthy to ask for advice. And Daemon seems to be quite a good choice in that respect too.

He’s not intimidated by her, or scared to tell her what she doesn’t want to hear.

"Be careful what you pray for, princess," he replied. "Darkstar could put an end to Lady Obara just as easily."

He’s not afraid to call her on her bullshit.

"Are you hoping that he is, or that he’s not?"
"I… it would give great joy to my father if Elia’s son were still alive. He loved his sister well."
"It was you I asked about, not your father."
So it was. […] "I would sooner it were Quentyn who’d returned."
"Or so you say,” […]

And he’s always level headed and skeptical.

"Gregor Clegane ripped Aegon out of Elia’s arms and smashed his head against a wall," Ser Daemon said. "If Lord Connington’s prince has a crushed skull, I will believe that Aegon Targaryen has returned from the grave. Elsewise, no. This is some feigned boy, no more. A sellsword’s ploy to win support.”

I hope she keeps him around. And not just for the obvious reason.

It is Just a Game

In the wake of The World of Ice and Fire, I’ve been thinking a good deal about war, preparation for war, and cyvasse as a metaphor for these things, especially as it relates to Dorne, the land where the rules of war, or even decency, don’t exist once you cross the border in anger.

“Daeron Targaryen was only fourteen when he conquered Dorne,” Jon said. The Young Dragon was one of his heroes.
“A conquest that lasted a summer,” his uncle pointed out. “Your Boy King lost ten thousand men taking the place, and another fifty trying to hold it. Someone should have told him that war isn’t a game.” He took another sip of wine. “Also,” he said, wiping his mouth, “Daeron Targaryen was only eighteen when he died. Or have you forgotten that part?”

Cyvasse is a game, it has rules. War isn’t a game, it has no rules, at least not the way the Dornish play it.

“I understand you’ve fought some mighty battles too, Your Grace,” said Drey in his most cheerful voice. “It is said you show our brave Prince Trystane no mercy at the cyvasse table.”

“He always sets his squares up the same way, with all the mountains in the front and his elephants in the passes,” said Myrcella. “So I send my dragon through to eat his elephants.”

This is (intentionally, I have no doubt) how the Dornish have always set up their squares, they fortified the passes and waited to be attacked. And, both times that we know of, the literal and/or figurative dragons swooped in and destroyed them.

But, the dragon still lost both times.

Pieces on a board don’t have pride. They don’t have spite, or a willingness to be ruthless. They’re not fighting FOR anything. They don’t have character flaws, they don’t make stupid mistakes.

Arianne is preoccupied, distracted by her overwhelming anxiety about what she’ll have to do when the ship reaches it’s destination, and by massive blue balls. She dismisses cyvasse as “just a game” and then makes real plans. Plans that are based on players as people, with motives, characters, and weaknesses.

"It is just a game. Tell me of Prince Viserys."
"The Beggar King?" Ser Daemon seemed surprised.
"Everyone says that Prince Rhaegar was beautiful. Was Viserys beautiful as well?"
"I suppose. He was Targaryen. I never saw the man."
The secret pact that Prince Doran had made all those years called for Arianne to be wed to Prince Viserys, not Quentyn to Daenerys. It had all come undone on the Dothraki sea, when he was murdered. Crowned with a pot of molten gold. "He was killed by a Dothraki khal," said Arianne. "The dragon queen’s own husband."
"So I’ve heard. What of it?"
"Just… why did Daenerys let it happen? Viserys was her brother. All that remained of her own blood."
"The Dothraki are a savage folk. Who can know why they kill? Perhaps Viserys wiped his arse with the wrong hand."
Perhaps, thought Arianne, or perhaps Daenerys realized that once her brother was crowned and wed to me, she would be doomed to spend the rest of her life sleeping in a tent and smelling like a horse. "She is the Mad King’s daughter," the princess said. "How do we do know — "

It was all perfectly set up, all the pieces were in place. Then it all came undone, because Viserys was an idiot.

“We princes make our careful plans and the gods smash them all awry.”

My point is: cyvasse is no preparation for war, because war is not a game. If Aegon or Daeron had understood how the Dornish were stubborn, ruthless, rule breaking mofos, maybe they would have made different plans. Arianne is trying to understand JonCon, The Prince formally known as Young Griff, and Daenerys as people not pieces. That’s her greatest strength in the coming “game”.