Is littlefinger Robert Arryn's real father

[Blk_cffee]

I got to thinking. John Arryn was murdered after he'd begun looking into family trees and genealogy of the great families. We know Lysa killed poisoned John Arryn at littlefingers command. What if he was killed because littlefinger and lysa were afraid he was looking into his own family tree? Sweet robin being a sickly child unlike his strong father. They may have thought he had begun to suspect Robert Arryn was not his child, and is actually little finger's, so they had to kill him to protect the secret. The 'seed is strong', referring to his own and sweetrobin obviously not being. We know that in actuality John Arryn was looking into the Kings bastards, but what if for once littlefinger was wrong. Just saying.

[Knight Of Winter]

First and foremost - welcome to the forum :) :cheers:

This idea was proposed before, and opinions on plausibility differed. Personally I believe that even LF would not be so uncaring about his son's well-being and make plans based around his son's death.

[James Steller]

Considering that Lysa was forced to abort a child in her youth, it may have damaged her reproductive system permanently. That could explain Robert's sickly nature as opposed to illegitimacy.

[DarkSister1001]

Nice idea! Considering how LF treats his "daughter" Alaynne v. how he treats Sweet Robin it's easy to assume he's not his father.

[Balerion's Whiskers]

The only thing that gives me pause is the rabid possessiveness that Lyssa had for the child. I can't see her that unbalanced about a child of Jon Arryn's and could see it if it was LF's. I suspect it yes, but can't imagine that LF would be so callous with his own child. Lyssa would have told him the truth, I have no doubt.

[James Steller]

Lysa's paranoia can be attributed to the fact that she had several miscarriages before Robert was born. And it could also point to the idea that Hoster permanently damaged her body all those years ago.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I think its implausible to think that LF was brought to KL before Robert Aryn is born. We are told Jon Aryn knew f the abortion so he obviously would have asked who the father was.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Hi, new person.

"The seed is strong" without any doubt refers to Robert's kids not being his. The Baratheon seed always overpowers the Lannister genes.

However, I could see LF being Sweetrobin's father and not knowing it. Then if he kills the kid he'll be a kinslayer and the gods will get him for it! Great way to take him out. Especially if he finds out after the fact that the boy was his. I don't think he would kill his own flesh and blood, if he thought he had any.

[juanml82]

Maybe. There is little doubt that LF and Lysa were lovers at King's Landing and SR's conception might fit with LF's arrival at King's Landing.

The question is whether LF knows or not. First, if Lysa told him, chances are that Varys' young employees mutilated slaves told him about that. And second, what's the deal with LF's relationship with SR? Even if he doesn't plan on killing him but rather accepts SR's death as an inevitable fact, he only seems to show contempt at the brat

[TallTyrion]

Could be although I don't see any reason to think he is.

Sweetrobin was born 9 years after the rebellion. We know Lysa convinced Jon to put LF in change of Customs in Gull Town. Meaning he had about 7 or 8 years to work his way up from that position to the small council before Robert was born. That could be enough time for him to get to court and have an affair with Lysa. We don't know when he was named Master of Coin so the timeline could work but even then it's sketchy.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Question: if Lysa already had one child with LF would she have been so insistent on their wedding night about "make me a baby, Petyr!"?

[Universal Sword Donor]

nope

[TallTyrion]

Question: if Lysa already had one child with LF would she have been so insistent on their wedding night about "make me a baby, Petyr!"?

She wouldn't. LF probably wouldn't be slowly poisoning his own son either.

[Hangover of the Morning]

I don't believe so and my reasoning is that Lysa clearly thinks that Jon is the father. If there was even a remote chance that Petyr could have been the father, she would probably convinced herself that he was. So the fact that even crazy besotted aunt Lysa hasn't suggest it, I'd say the chances are slim.

[Federico]

I don't believe so and my reasoning is that Lysa clearly thinks that Jon is the father. If there was even a remote chance that Petyr could have been the father, she would probably convinced herself that he was. So the fact that even crazy besotted aunt Lysa hasn't suggest it, I'd say the chances are slim.

. Yeah, I wondered about this too, but Hangover made my first point. My second, LF had great respect for the Little Birds in KL. having private conversations with Lysa is hard enough, having sex is even more challenging. I think he's too disciplined to be reckless with Lysa (Not so with Sansa). Also, the promise of what another wants can yield more actions from the Piece (Lysa) than from actually giving the piece what it wants before the Piece executes the desired actions.

On the other hand, had he impregnated her, she'd do ANYTHING for LF. But, back to Hangover's point.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Nice idea! Considering how LF treats his "daughter" Alaynne v. how he treats Sweet Robin it's easy to assume he's not his father.

I beg to differ, and think it will merely show just how monstrous LF truly is. I think his evil may be even worse than Ramsay's, but he can just control it and is much more intelligent than other truly evil people in the series. SweetRobin stands in the way of a stable Sansa rule of the Vale, Riverlands, and the North, and even if he makes it to be 16, he's far too unpredictable and volatile to ever rule. LF wouldn't let something as meaningless as blood stand in his way.

[Lord Annaly]

Like many things in ASOIAF this is open to interpretation..

Here is the quote from the Drearfort..

“Sweet Petyr, I’ve missed you so, you don’t know, you can’t know. Yohn Royce has been stirring up all sorts of trouble, demanding that I call my banners and go to war. And the others all swarm around me, Hunter and Corbray and that dreadful Nestor Royce, all wanting to wed me and take my son to ward, but none of them truly love me. Only you, Petyr. I’ve dreamed of you so long.”

“And I of you, my lady.” He slid an arm around behind her and kissed her on the neck. “How soon can we be wed?”

“Now,” said Lady Lysa, sighing. “I’ve brought my own septon, and a singer, and mead for the wedding feast.”

“Here?” That did not please him. “I’d sooner wed you at the Eyrie, with your whole court in attendance.”

“Poo to my court. I have waited so long, I could not bear to wait another moment.” She put her arms around him. “I want to share your bed tonight, my sweet. I want us to make another child, a brother for Robert or a sweet little daughter.”

“I dream of that as well, sweetling. Yet there is much to be gained from a great public wedding, with all the Vale—”

“No.” She stamped a foot. “I want you now, this very night. And I must warn you, after all these years of silence and whisperings, I mean to scream when you love me. I am going to scream so loud they’ll hear me in the Eyrie!”

Now a lot of folks focus on "another baby" saying this shows that Robert is their child but forget that she is referring to the pregnancy that happened when they slept together in Riverrun all those years ago.

And some say this points to them having a long term sexual relationship all these years in Kings Landing...which is possible but I doubt as I think that Littlefinger would not jeopardise his position at Court by being found out...he of all people knows that there is no such thing real secret in Kings Landing especially with Varys around.

The line " after all these years of silence and whisperings" could imply that Littlefinger has been stringing her along all these years and the haste with which she wants the wedding to happen, immediately also implies that she (or he) has maintained that they will only have sex once they are married. And she wants to bed him now not in a few weeks that it would take to arrange a state marriage in the Eyrie for the Lady of the Vale and the Lord of Harrenhal.

Maybe he used the idea of marriage to put off having to actually sleep with a women he despises or maybe she wanted to be married after the trauma of what happened the last time she had sex out of wedlock.

Anyway what I am saying is that I don't think Sweet Robin is Littlefinger's son.

Sweet Robin being described as small and sickly is another reason why some say it points to the little lord from the Fingers being the father. But Petyr is never described as being a sickly or weak person just not very tall.

Others claim Jon Arryn could never father children so then Robert is not his but his first wife got pregnant. And if Littlefinger and Lysa never had sex in Kings Landing Jon obviously was the father of all those miscarriages.

And those miscarriages may or may not have been the result of her abortion but may have been down to a weakness in the fertility of some of Whent women.

Two Whent women married into the hyper-fertile Frey's yet died childless and Lysa's own mother Lady Minisa Whent lost half her children as infants so maybe Lysa having so many miscarriages and a weak sickly child comes from her mother's line rather than Jon Arryn or Littlefinger.

But I think this quote here is the clincher....

"I've always loved you. I've proved it, haven't I?" ... "I gave you my maiden's gift. I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of honey and a drop of permyroyal."

This at least shows that Lysa does not consider Sweet Robin as being Littlefinger's.

Edit: don't know why all that bold print appeared midway.. :(

[Hangover of the Morning]

I beg to differ, and think it will merely show just how monstrous LF truly is. I think his evil may be even worse than Ramsay's, but he can just control it and is much more intelligent than other truly evil people in the series. SweetRobin stands in the way of a stable Sansa rule of the Vale, Riverlands, and the North, and even if he makes it to be 16, he's far too unpredictable and volatile to ever rule. LF wouldn't let something as meaningless as blood stand in his way.

I agree that Littlefinger is a textbook sociopath but unlike Gregor/Ramsay/Joffrey has a high IQ and is thus able to hide it and emulate human emotions. As far as I can tell, he is not a sadist so he's not going to torture anyone for just the sake of it.

I don't believe that SweetRobin is Littlefinger's son but even if he was, he wouldn't hesitate to get him flayed, if it would advance his status. People are just things for him to be used for his own benefit. He'd probably have even less qualms about using his own son, because after all he produced him so he is his to do what he wants.

[Lord Damian]

I am a fire believer that SweetRobin is Littlefinger's son. Sometimes older men, like Jon Arryn, dry up of sorts, become sterille with old age. Sometimes. It is a part of life. We also know Littlefinger used Lysa like he uses all others and probably could care less if Sweet Robin was his child or not. Better not, as it is Sweet Robin and his dubious status as his "stepfather" that keeps him in power in the Vale. If Sweet Robin is his and discovered so (I do not see how at this point) then he might have to learn how to "fly", real fast like.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Question: why does anyone assume that LF would know the kid was his?

Let's say he slept with Lysa one time while she was married to Jon, just to get her to quit whining and begging and being reckless. That would not guarantee a pregnancy by any means. LF would know that. He's in the brothel business for crying out loud. He will have a basic understanding of the biology involved.

Anyone remember which family Sweetrobin takes after? I can't recall and I've been assuming he looks like an Arryn.