I don't buy evil Sansa...

[Red Wedding Cake]

(Littlefinger) turned her hand over and lightly kissed her wrist. "So tell mr sweetling -- why is Harry the Heir?"

(Alayne's) eyes widened. "He is not Lady Waynwood's heir. He's Robert's heir. If Robert were to die..."

Petyr arched an eyebrow. "When Robert dies... Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie... and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden's cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back... why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa... Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell. That's worth another kiss now, don't you think?" AFFC 896

We never get Sansa's reaction after hearing all this. She could refuse, but the suggestion is she will go along with Littlefinger as she went along with him for the lengthy explanation. She's at least interested.

Last time I brought this up it was argued wide eyes means fear, which is not always the case:

Sansa’s eyes had grown wide as the plates. “A tourney,” she breathed… “Will we be permitted to go, Father?” “You know my feelings, Sansa…” “Oh, please,” Sana said. “I want to see.” AGOT 216

[Fae Boleyn]

Wide eyes also mean surprise or shock, and that's a likely response to Littlefinger's revelation, one that matches Alayne/Sansa's thought process at the moment.

Also, why do people keep accusing Sansa of knowingly poisoning Robin? She is not aware that sweetsleep is poison. She knows there's risk in it, yes, but all Colemon has said in her hearing is that it doesn't leave the blood, implying that's a danger in time. His fretting sounds easily to dismiss, against the immediate certainty that an unconscious Robin being seen lashed to his mule would be bad, and falling off the mountain worse.

[Red Wedding Cake]

Wide eyes also mean surprise or shock, and that's a likely response to Littlefinger's revelation, one that matches Alayne/Sansa's thought process at the moment.

Also, why do people keep accusing Sansa of knowingly poisoning Robin? She is not aware that sweetsleep is poison. She knows there's risk in it, yes, but all Colemon has said in her hearing is that it doesn't leave the blood, implying that's a danger in time. His fretting sounds easily to dismiss, against the immediate certainty that an unconscious Robin being seen lashed to his mule would be bad, and falling off the mountain worse.

She doesn't know, but she didn't care to know. She cut off the maester as he was talking of the dangers of the sweetmilk. Sansa is concerned with appearances, and she can't have Sweetrobin having a seizure in front of the other houses.

[lady jellybean]

I hope that sansa does go evil. Its the only way I will like her. But I do like the idea of throwing herself out of a tower. That would work as well.

[UtherSnow]

Sansa has done a great job staying alive amidst all the madness surrounding Joffrey. How did she do this? Where's the best place to hide when you're in the middle of a crowd? It's not to stand out from the rest by shouting the odds. She's been a stupid stupid girl. She's taken all that's been dealt out too.

Go through all of Sansa's experiences while she's been in King's Landing.

Start with the dreamy girl, dreaming of her precious prince, the one she'll marry, the one who'll become king, to make her queen.... How quickly that dream shatters once Ned's taken to the Black Cells. Then Joffrey (clearly prompted by Cersei's hatred - which we know has been brewing for over 15 years) takes off her father's head right in front of her. Joffrey treated her like a pet, cruelly too. Add on that Cersei's been going on and on, attempting to brainwash Sansa. Take everything through to the sham marriage with Tyrion.

Who can't understand where Darth Sansa comes from? Still not appreciating how it can happen?

What kind of reception does she get at The Eyrie, from her Aunt Lysa? All smiles to her face. She's contending with a spoilt brat of a mummy's boy too. So, we come to the moon door episode.

In the book, haven't we been following Sansa and seen this job she's done to control her darker side? Why would anyone not be surprised by this change of character? I can understand it. I can appreciate it. Now she can play on her darker side, and really become Alayne Stone (aka Dark/Darth Sansa).

In the show (which I treat as a separate entity altogether), the visual dynamic of seeing this stronger, darker image was brilliant. Even the voice too.

Sansa hasn't been learning to play the game. She's been working out her own moves. How else has she survived? It's not easy for some to buy into Evil/Dark/Darth Sansa, probably taken along more by the show version. Go and re-trace Sansa's steps in the book. You do appreciate her journey more.

[juanml82]

Wide eyes also mean surprise or shock, and that's a likely response to Littlefinger's revelation, one that matches Alayne/Sansa's thought process at the moment.

Also, why do people keep accusing Sansa of knowingly poisoning Robin? She is not aware that sweetsleep is poison. She knows there's risk in it, yes, but all Colemon has said in her hearing is that it doesn't leave the blood, implying that's a danger in time. His fretting sounds easily to dismiss, against the immediate certainty that an unconscious Robin being seen lashed to his mule would be bad, and falling off the mountain worse.

Had Sansa said "Ok, tell the dangers" (the maester goes on and on) and then she says "If Robert keeps behaving as he is and, on top, he has to descend from his own keep tied to a mule then it's only a matter of time until an ambitious bannerman gets support to turn him into a head into an spike. So, for this one time, we'll have to risk it" then yes, the accusation is baseless.

But that's not what she says nor does

[HoodedCrow]

Sansa tries to manipulate Joffrey into leading the Vanguard at the Blackwater, thus he would be risking his life. Pretty savvy and ruthless.

[TallTyrion]

GRRM has said that a "controversial" Sansa chapter coming up in TWoW. That could mean she does something "evil." Poisoning Sweetrobin seems the most likely but who knows.

There's no need to "convert her to the darkside" as you said. One of the main points of the books is that no one is purely good or evil. People make choices and the consequences are what matter. Sansa killing someone or committing some other immoral act doesn't need to fundamentally change her as a character.

I also don't think her killing someone is a large departure with her character so far. She's an orphaned girl whose whole family has been murdered, she's been abused and held captive for over a year, and now she is finally in a position of power. It's not hard to see that character arc leading to her doing some ruthless stuff.

[bloodofwinterfell]

Just to clarify -

GRRM never said that the next Sansa chapter is going to be controversial. Ran, the board admin, said it was, and later clarified saying that it might be controversial in some quarters of the fandom ... which, basically, could mean anything.

On a happier note, it was also said that a Sansa chapter was going to make "lemoncake" fans happy! :)

[Darksnider05]

I just don't think Sansa has enough metal (mettle? medal?), will, or character to be good or evil.

Its like saying a chair or jug of wine or parrot is evil.

:agree: Waiting for her to actually put her life on the line of her own free will.

[peterbound]

I wouldn't buy it either. Rent, maybe. But in this economy? Buying is out of the question.

[Roose on the Loose]

LF never said he wants SR to die. How would that help his position? He's planning for what he thinks is a high probability contingency. His position was most secure when Lysa and SR were both alive. He killed Lysa when she got in the way of him seducing Sansa. Then it took all his skill to stay in the Eyrie. If his bastard son dies he's got nothing. Thus the HTH plot.

Sansa has even less reason to want him dead. If Sansa picked up one marketable skill in King's Landing it was the ability to manipulate a brat. She practiced on Joff and now she has SR wrapped around her little finger.

Little Finger? Maybe Petyr's nick name has more to do with manipulation than where he's from.

[TallTyrion]

LF never said he wants SR to die. How would that help his position? He's planning for what he thinks is a high probability contingency. His position was most secure when Lysa and SR were both alive. He killed Lysa when she got in the way of him seducing Sansa. Then it took all his skill to stay in the Eyrie. If his bastard son dies he's got nothing. Thus the HTH plot.

Sansa has even less reason to want him dead. If Sansa picked up one marketable skill in King's Landing it was the ability to manipulate a brat. She practiced on Joff and now she has SR wrapped around her little finger.

Little Finger? Maybe Petyr's nick name has more to do with manipulation than where he's from.

He has Sansa betrothed to Harry the Heir, he's only the Heir if Sweetrobin dies. I don't think he killed Lysa because she got in the way of him and Sansa that seemed pretty premeditated to me.

When exactly was Sansa able to manipulate Joffery?

[SeanF]

Sansa lied to condemn Marillion. I don't blame her, as I'd have done the same in her position. But, it does show how good LF is at corrupting people. Perhaps she'll be backed into a similar corner with Sweetrobin.

[Roose on the Loose]

He has Sansa betrothed to Harry the Heir, he's only the Heir if Sweetrobin dies. I don't think he killed Lysa because she got in the way of him and Sansa that seemed pretty premeditated to me.

When exactly was Sansa able to manipulate Joffery?

She got him to spare Dontos.

Sansa aside, why would LF suddenly want Lysa dead? She was his creature for years. In the Vale she was the source of his legitimacy.

Sometimes he improvises so well it looks like plan A.

[TallTyrion]

She got him to spare Dontos.

Sansa aside, why would LF suddenly want Lysa dead? She was his creature for years. In the Vale she was the source of his legitimacy.

Sometimes he improvises so well it looks like plan A.

She said it would be bad luck to kill a guy on your name day. Joff was perfectly ready to proceed until the Hound intervened. That's hardly manipulation.

He wants her dead because what she knows can ruin him.

[Equilibrium]

I would like to buy evil Sansa we would have so much fun, damn this anti-slavary thing and she being fictional

[Dicer]

Sansa lied to condemn Marillion. I don't blame her, as I'd have done the same in her position. But, it does show how good LF is at corrupting people. Perhaps she'll be backed into a similar corner with Sweetrobin.

Hey, idiots like Cersei and Joffrey were able to corrupt Sansa. It does not take a genius to fool her. Just tell her that it's for her own good and she will probably do it. She's a survivor above all else and I think we will see her throw SweetRobin under the bus, willingly, to survive.

[Knight Of Winter]

Sansa lied to condemn Marillion. I don't blame her, as I'd have done the same in her position. But, it does show how good LF is at corrupting people. Perhaps she'll be backed into a similar corner with Sweetrobin.

Marillion tried to bed Sansa despite her protests (aka wannabe rapist) and is overall a complete jerk. If you want true test if LF is good at corruption, we'll have to see if he manages to turn Sansa against Robert.

Stuff like this why Vale storyline is one of these I await most eagerly.

[DeathYon]

Sansa has done a great job staying alive amidst all the madness surrounding Joffrey. How did she do this? Where's the best place to hide when you're in the middle of a crowd? It's not to stand out from the rest by shouting the odds. She's been a stupid stupid girl. She's taken all that's been dealt out too.

Go through all of Sansa's experiences while she's been in King's Landing.

Start with the dreamy girl, dreaming of her precious prince, the one she'll marry, the one who'll become king, to make her queen.... How quickly that dream shatters once Ned's taken to the Black Cells. Then Joffrey (clearly prompted by Cersei's hatred - which we know has been brewing for over 15 years) takes off her father's head right in front of her. Joffrey treated her like a pet, cruelly too. Add on that Cersei's been going on and on, attempting to brainwash Sansa. Take everything through to the sham marriage with Tyrion.

Who can't understand where Darth Sansa comes from? Still not appreciating how it can happen?

What kind of reception does she get at The Eyrie, from her Aunt Lysa? All smiles to her face. She's contending with a spoilt brat of a mummy's boy too. So, we come to the moon door episode.

In the book, haven't we been following Sansa and seen this job she's done to control her darker side? Why would anyone not be surprised by this change of character? I can understand it. I can appreciate it. Now she can play on her darker side, and really become Alayne Stone (aka Dark/Darth Sansa).

In the show (which I treat as a separate entity altogether), the visual dynamic of seeing this stronger, darker image was brilliant. Even the voice too.

Sansa hasn't been learning to play the game. She's been working out her own moves. How else has she survived? It's not easy for some to buy into Evil/Dark/Darth Sansa, probably taken along more by the show version. Go and re-trace Sansa's steps in the book. You do appreciate her journey more.

Great response.