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Snape vs. Marauders?


Seaworth'sShipmate

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What do you all think about the rivalry between Snape and the Marauders in Harry Potter?



When I first read Order of the Phoenix in 2003, I sort of felt bad for Snape, but now, so many years later, I realize than even at school Snape was bad news and pretty much deserved what he got.



And no, despite JK Rowlings protestations, I don't believe he ever truly loved Lily Potter.


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Um... how can you make a statement on author's intent? If Rowling said that Snape loved Lily, I take it at face value.



As for the whole Snape/Marauders dynamic, the Marauders (mostly James and Sirius) took things too far, even Remus says he could have done more to rein in those two. So, at the end of The Order of the Phoenix I sympathized with Snape, at the end of The Half-Blood Prince I despised him, and at the closing of The Deathly Hallows Snape is now one of my all time favorite characters of any book.


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And no, despite JK Rowlings protestations, I don't believe he ever truly loved Lily Potter.

Rowling created Snape, and the entire story he acts in. It doesn't matter if you don't like something or it doesn't fit with your beliefs, if the person who wrote the story says it, it is a fact. While there is some precedence for authors lying or misleading their audiences (as Rowling herself did with Snape's true motivators in the lead up to Deathly Hallows) that is clearly not the case with this issue anymore.

Regarding the debate, the Marauders are 15 when we see the bulk of their tormenting Snape via his memories, yes? That's about old enough to know what they were doing is wrong, but still at a questionable age as far as making snap judgements about someone you don't like. They behaved like assholes, but as near as we can tell James did not continue for much longer and Sirius seemed to follow suit. Most of us have been jerks to someone we disliked as teenagers, if we all had magical powers and our best friend egging us on, would we have really been that different? It's important to note this moment in Phoenix wasn't meant to destroy James or Sirius' characters entirely, just make us realize even the good guys aren't perfect and that Snape wasn't completely illogical. The latter still carried his personal feelings too hard later in life, but I've never had my crush killed by the Wizard Hitler I was serving, so who knows what kind of emotional damage the guy went through.

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On topic: I actually sympathised with Snape more after Order of the Phoenix. The Marauders came off as entitled douchebags, and though funny, they seemed crueller than our chief pranksters in charge: the Weasley twins. The latter were more good natured or less targeting (of specific students).



The Marauders seemed, in that memory anyway, to be edging more toward Malfoy and his cronies' shit.


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Well, there is that whole death of the author thing, but I always thought it was pretty obvious he loved Lily.

Yep, basically this. I had the idea that Snape was in love with Lily back when The Goblet of Fire was the last book that was published, and thought it would explain so much, but I did not even believe my own guessing back then because I thought it was too far-fetched.

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@OP- be careful about digging up old wounds here. There used to be an intense Marauders/Snape split here. It started out as a rivalry but began to become more serious, creeping into threads about bullying, groupthink, school shootings and even circumcision. Don't even ask about the 'broken wand' metaphor thread.

Eventually it blew up in a massive flame war and the ban hammer rained blows down upon the board like a drunken Maurader assaulting Snape in the Quidditch lockerroom.

The survivors have dusted ourselves off and tries to move on but I wouldn't say there's been much recovery or healing, just time and silence.

Maybe your post will encourage us to open our hearts.and move forward.

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I think Snape believed he loved Lilly. That said it was a "possesory" sort of love. I think he loved the idea of Lilly more than the actual Lilly. I don't think he could accept that Lilly had the ability to walk her own path. When that path went a way Snape disliked he couldn't adjust and things went very badly.

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One could also argue it was an unhealthy fixation: consider a teenage friendship being held on to so fiercely by an adult man, even with (afaik) no contact between them as adults. Though her dying and his determination to protect her son is poignant and touching.


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Yes, Rowling may disagree with me, but I've never fully bought into the idea that what Snape felt for Lily was "true love", so to speak, or that he was a hero. I've seen many people before me make this comparison, but he was like a Nazi who's fascinated by a Jewess who was his friend when they were children. He seemed perfectly willing to persecute the other "mudbloods" and he showed zero concern that she would be completely heartbroken by the deaths of her beloved husband and baby son - as long as he gets her, all flies...



So no, his supposed reformation in the name of one dead woman does not cut it with me, nor does his troubled childhood. He may have been born to an abusive father and he may have been unpopular as a child, but at the soonest possible opportunity he himself joined a gang of bullies (he kept company with the future DE and we've also seen the effect of some of the potions and spells he invented... on whom did he use them, I wonder). What the Marauders had been doing to him was nasty and in some cases pretty dangerous, no question. But what he had been up to as a Death Eater had been probably ten times worse.



His tenure as a teacher was also terrible; just remember all the times he was bullying Harry, Hermione, Neville or other of his non-Slytherin students. He became the greatest fear of a boy whose parents had been tortured to insanity, ffs! (By Snape's former colleagues, no less.) I'd rather not think about how many students must have been psychically scarred by him during their formative years.



I just never felt he truly changed.


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His tenure as a teacher was also terrible; just remember all the times he was bullying Harry, Hermione, Neville or other of his non-Slytherin students. He became the greatest fear of a boy whose parents had been tortured to insanity, ffs! (By Snape's former colleagues, no less.) I'd rather not think about how many students must have been psychically scarred by him during their formative years.

This is why I never felt any sympathy for Snape. He constantly bullied children to the point of traumatizing them.

He was a petty-ass man with an unhealthy obsession over a childhood friend.

The marauders were assholes as teenagers, no doubt about that, but they never joined a gang of murderous thugs later on.

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Rowling has said that despite his courage etc., Snape was an unpleasant, petty man and an awful teacher. I agree.



I read a theory that the reason Snape hated Neville so much is because he knew about the prophecy and that there werre 2 candidates: Harry and Neville, and that if LV had picked Nev, Lily would be alive.



Which makes him seem even more... disturbed.

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