The Riverlands Web V.6

[Mad Madam Mim]

Anyone else wonder what all those Darry outlaws went?  Did they join the BWB or join the Sparrow movement? Or both for that matter?

Interesting question! Admittedly I never put any thought into what happened to them, perhaps thinking logically it would be unlikely they would end up with the Sparrows as Lancel was responsible for them getting kicked out of Darry in the first place and Lancel is closely associated with the faith. I would put my money on them joining the BWB.  

 

With Lancel renouncing his lands to join the Warrior's Sons I wonder whether they would consider trying to take back a weakened Darry...given the numerous times it has changed hands in the books it would appear that capturing Darry is easier than fighting your way out of a soggy paper bag. 

[Lord Wraith]

Interesting question! Admittedly I never put any thought into what happened to them, perhaps thinking logically it would be unlikely they would end up with the Sparrows as Lancel was responsible for them getting kicked out of Darry in the first place and Lancel is closely associated with the faith. I would put my money on them joining the BWB.  

 

With Lancel renouncing his lands to join the Warrior's Sons I wonder whether they would consider trying to take back a weakened Darry.

 

Thanks for the response. Its possible that they will make the effort, but what would be the point since Darry is supposedly wiped out in the male line.

 

Interesting thing to note:  what is the difference between an outlaw/broken man and a sparrow?  The sparrow simply have to have a red star on their clothes.  With the reformation of the Faith Militant the outlaws can literally hide in plain site perhaps?

[Mad Madam Mim]

 

Thanks for the response. Its possible that they will make the effort, but what would be the point since Darry is supposedly wiped out in the male line.

 

Interesting thing to note:  what is the difference between an outlaw/broken man and a sparrow?  The sparrow simply have to have a red star on their clothes.  With the reformation of the Faith Militant the outlaws can literally hide in plain site perhaps?

Darry as a house is pretty wiped out, but Darry as a castle is on route to the north so could be useful strategically? Lancel was also doing the place up before he left so perhaps outlaws have a penchant for interior design.  

 

Good point about disguises, have you any ideas how that could play out? My initial thought is that it would be a good way to infiltrate Kings Landing but could also be a disguise for particular individuals such as a wanted Hound who is easily recognisable. 

[Lord Wraith]

Darry as a house is pretty wiped out, but Darry as a castle is on route to the north so could be useful strategically? Lancel was also doing the place up before he left so perhaps outlaws have a penchant for interior design.  

 

Good point about disguises, have you any ideas how that could play out? My initial thought is that it would be a good way to infiltrate Kings Landing but could also be a disguise for particular individuals such as a wanted Hound who is easily recognisable. 

 

Infiltration seems to key use.  Could be in KL. Could be used in the probable retaking of Riverrun.  I am working on a rather crackpot theory that the High Sparrow could be a Darry.  After all the BWB mention: Raymund Darry, Old Lord Darry, and young Lord Darry (Lyman presumed).  

[Booknerd2]

Sometimes when one is busy they must pull a Tyrek Lannister and go missing. It happens to me on occasion.

 

Let's just say being very busy falls far short of covering my absence. Sorry doesn't cover it either. 

 

In a few hours I will post, as promised, from the Seven knows when I promised weeks ago….Sybell Spicer is in Deep Sh@t, Part 2.

 

Just need to fix a few things, but Sybell, Jaime, and Beavis and Butthead references should be somewhat entertaining.

[Booknerd2]

Post Question #25: Sybell Spicer is in Deep Sh@t – Part 2

Or, “Dudes, get out the popcorn, Sybell grab a stiff drink.”

 

 

I was never ready to throw out a: “Settle down, Beavis.” I’ll just let Butthead do it for me. And really for Jaime.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKDeiMD9a7w

 

Nah. Screw it. Let Jaime verbally ream her. She deserves it.

 

I’ve loved Beavis and Butt-Head since they first rocked out on their patched-up dusty rose couch in the 90’s. They crack me up. They really crack me up. It was more effective, hilarious even, if some of your metalhead friends were similar. The similarities I was more than cognizant of, and in a now nostalgic way still activates surges of affection. Most importantly, I was a young metalhead in grammar school and high school in the 90’s when it aired, and I still am. Well, not as young but I love my music. Laughed my ass off then, still doing it now. I caught the episode “Scared Straight” the other day. Nothing beats them being let out of the program early when they’re caught banging their heads to some Maiden, as in Iron Maiden, and specifically, “The Prisoner.”

 

 In the back of class during high school, me and this other kid used to do the voices during class. Don’t tell my mom. And when the plastic remote with the audio clips came out, well, it came to school with me. Oh, and I have that plastic device with the boys sitting on a couch that you could put over your tv. It would make sound effects as you watched something or changed the channel. Pretty awesome….still have it. Haven’t thought about busting it out lately and using it, but maybe I will again one day. And hopefully, you still have that popcorn. I had to take a long break due to a bad case of the busies. But so much happened during the Jaime and Sybell exchange that you may need extra popcorn anyway.

 

And Sybell that stiff drink.

 

So, Sybell, with her daughter Jeyne in tow, are summoned to where Jaime is holding “office hours.” Jaime sizes up Jeyne and starts in with internal thoughts that kick it off, and indicate to the readers, that really, he was gearing up to be in verbal rare form. Going off on a tear just doesn’t do it justice.

 

In regard to Jeyne, Jaime’s observation was: “…but not a girl to lose a kingdom for.”

 

Oh, snap. No other way to say it. But this is the guy that knew Cersei Lannister in her prime, who was undoubtedly a great beauty. This is the guy who has seen other great beauties like possibly Lyanna Stark, Ashara Dayne, and others so if Jeyne is comparably small time considering, I get that. 

 

Then this is brought to our attention, which really made me even more pissed off at Sybell. After Jaime gives his physical description of Jeyne, he notes her puffy face and a scab on her forehead. He asks her about it, but guess who cuts her off before she can answer?

 

That’s right. Mommy. Sybell. And she delivers and oh….”It’s nothing.” And you think she will stop right there and try to hide it. That maybe there are some qualms or a tinge of embarrassment present

 

Nope. She damn well wrestled the crown off her kid’s head. And lets Jaime know that she did so. She is so upfront and clear about it, it is disturbing. Just awkward. “She would not give up the little crown the rebel gave her, and when I tried to take it from her head the willful child fought me.”

 

A few things:

 

1.     It is apparent she is trying to kiss Jaime’s and Lannister ass as a whole by referring to Robb, her dead son-in-law, Lord Stark, and the King of the North as “the rebel.” Plain, dismissive wording, but the calculating bitch also knows who she’s talking to here.

2.     Another blow of disrespect to Robb and also showing again that she thought the King and Queen of the North titles were only as important as other people thought it was, and only mattered if it could do anything for her and her family.  She calls the Queen’s crown, the “little crown.”

3.     She makes more of her daughter’s actions than her own. Sybell, according to her, tried to merely take the crown; her daughter fought her. Uh, Sybell is down-playing any defense here, that might have been necessary on Jeyne’s part. Jeyne brings up Robb and that she loved him, Sybell tries to slap her, and Jaime has to step in between them. So Sybell is willing to hurt her kid to show Jaime that she won’t tolerate any words defending Robb Stark. Also, she is probably pissed that her kid is ruining her act. I think Sybell has possibly been more more physical with her before and it’s just not about the crown, meaning not a one time thing. Ironically, it made Jaime’s opinion of her even worse. It did her no favors. I think Jaime sees it immediately there, what a piece of work Sybell is. He even throws a positive Robb comment Jeyne’s way when he sees she is upset and “curled up in her chair like a frightened animal.” Uh, hold that thought. The “frightened animal” gets feisty and in front of Jaime. And it really impressed me. She is not afraid to defend Robb’s memory and her feelings for him.

 

Sybell’s potential likability, as if that were ever possible, continues along a downward spiral, where she freely admits that she made sure her daughter was doused with liquid contraceptive as Tywin bid her, clearly not caring that her daughter feels betrayed and is distraught over it.

 

Jeyne leaves and Jaime asks Sybell what else she wants. Her brother Rolph was already made Lord of Castamere (little eerie there, out of all titles you could grab, this is not much better than Harrenhal. Not feeling too keen about that one panning out myself) and the Westerlings were pardoned.

 

Sybell is so not afraid to remind Jaime of what she feels she is owed. Marriage for both her daughters, and she is very particular also in reminding him that certain statuses for potential grooms just won’t do. She is shooting for the higher ups. And she is not done requesting gains. She mentions both her sons, which I am not sure was in the initial deal with Tywin. I need a reminder here myself. Or it was, which is why she brings it up in a bit.

 

The two-year waiting period for Jeyne to marry and get impregnated to not fuel the Robb heir rumor was annoying too. Smart and tactical and makes sense on Jaime’s end, but it just drives the point home again how Jeyne is viewed, like many women in the series, as pawns to be tinkered with, depending how the mood strikes the movers and shakers.

 

But back to Sybell discussing her sons and their marriages. The author does a great job, as always, in using subtle description to really bring his characters to life, among many other great techniques. A genius in understanding character quirks and flaws and using the tiniest paintbrushes to detail and articulate them when needed, and making characters’ unique idiosyncrasies stand out individually from other characters.

 

“I have two sons as well. Lady Westerling reminded him.” Read: I am a pushy asshole, Jaime. Jaime is annoyed thinking this pain in the ass doesn’t need to remind him; he’s not dim. It is a cold, short, and snarky reminder. Maybe even condescending too. One simple sentence or two making it clear again how this woman only cares about her own agenda. Brilliant.

 

Sybell tells him that Rollam is with her and then discusses Raynald and how he did not know her plans and that he may be a captive. In one short paragraph we are left with a bit of ambiguity if the woman has some capacity for love. In the same breath that she wouldn’t have let him go to the Twins if she knew what she knew know, we get: “There was a hint of reproach in her voice.” Which can be taken as she thought of losing her son for a hot second and then got over it quick; eye on the prize(s). This may not be a woman that took to her room one day and sobbed and mourned her child, or she did and we’ll never know it. Or it could be a woman that values her sons just a bit more than than Jeyne and her other daughter, but not by much, just a smidgeon. There is a lot to analyze from that paragraph in regard to how deep, if at all, any feeling runs through Sybell. And that mystery from the author is just great writing. Just like LF and Varys and others, even down to more minor characters like Sybell, Martin still leaves us guessing. Just like in real life. Can you ever really, truly know someone 100%? As Metallica once said: “You know it’s sad but true.”

 

But Sybell cannot bring herself to say, for whatever reason, what Jaime thinks regarding Raynald. Or he may be dead. Now, whether that is her mourning an asset…or a son, who knows?

 

Again, I want Mr. Westerling’s take on his wife’s shenanigans eventually. In a bit so does Jaime Lannister. Also, he promises Sybell two things: to make inquiries into Raynald and to offer a ransom if he is a Frey captive. So Jaime is throwing her some more bones, but she ain’t dropping her marriage aims for her boys. But she will take any bones she is thrown. She is a taker that Sybell.

 

You know Sybell was thinking this: Nice try, Kingslayer, offering some more fluff. BUT I WANT MY ADVANTAGEOUS MARRIAGES FOR MY SONS FOR ALL MY DIABOLICAL EFFORTS….REMEMBER??? HUH? REMEMBER??? MWAHAHAHAHA….AND EVERYTHING ELSE I ASKED FOR…AND ANYTHING ELSE I CAN GET. OR FEEL I SHOULD.

 

And Jaime knows she is thinking this and how she is by now. He’s starting to do a slow burn that will erupt in a few. Get more popcorn.

 

So what does Sybell do? Naturally, she harangues Jaime again about the marriages and won’t let it drop. Like a dog sinking its teeth into someone’s ass and stubbornly not letting go. By this point, Jaime really does know she is a pain in the ass. And a cold-hearted, calculating, self-interested, if he can even call her, human being.

 

It is funny that he understands but still doesn’t like it. He can be that way, though we are meant to see in this passage and many others, before and after, a shift occurring for him personally. There is hypocrisy, even though Sybell is about to get verbally blasted by him in a minute, that Jaime has been very much like her in most of the first half of the series. So through his interactions with Sybell, we see that the Jaime shift is still on-going, and it won’t be easy for him. It has not been happening overnight.

 

Sybell throws Jaime another rude, annoying, and pressing reminder. I think what annoyed him most was her talking to him like he needed reminders and didn’t have the capacity to remember or honor the deals. She like stoked the fire of some personal pet peeve he had. Hey, many people call him a kingslayer and oathbreaker, so stupid Sybell was totally treading on sensitive territory for him. He does get touchy about that. I think that is part of what put him over the edge with her. Well, among other things.

 

“Mention was made of a match for him as well. A bride from Casterly Rock. Your lord father said that Raynald should have a joy of him, if all went as we hoped.”

 

Number 1, I love the Tywin “joy/Joy” reference. That sneaky bastard…hehehehe…

 

As for Sybell, can’t you just hear that lingering undertone of: Jaime, might I remind you again that….present in all her remarks/demands to him? And then the let’s go above your head, let’s throw in some Tywin name-dropping. I will bring up, no, I will remind you of your father’s words. There. Take that.

 

Bottom line: Sybell is dumbest smart character I know. If she was sweeter, played dumb, and was able to finesse him, he might not have blown up on her. But she has no veneer. She is so transparent in her greed, ambitions, and me-me-me personality. Oh, well.   

 

Jesus Christ, Sybell. At least throw some plump red tomatoes, shiny olives, or some velvety dressing over your wilted, rotten lettuce. Really. All she does is continue to piss him off further. And that vinegar expression on her face has to go. Not helping. At least attempt to look pleasant. At least try to look like you are not hounding him for things you expect and feel you deserve. For chrissakes, kids do better when trying to wheedle new toys out of their parents. She is so abrasive, that “coaxing” is just not a word in her vocabulary.

 

Jaime, in a laugh out loud moment, when the whoopee cushion is detonated, and the balloon pops, reminds her that Tywin literally meant Joy the bastard. Cue the wha…wha…wha…or get a snare and cymbal ready for a rimshot. The dream drums I envision are those nice vitnage amber-colored ones John Bonham used.

 

LOL! Jaime Lannister will be here all week. Try the veal.

 

I can just picture her face. Too funny. Wait. GRRM will let us know exactly what her facial appearance resembles. Tart, lemony, with a little stick up her ass thrown in for good measure. Imagining the face is priceless.

 

Jaime reminds her that Joy is Gerion Lannister’s natural daughter, and his late uncle, is a Lannister, mind you, as that consolation prize/useless parting gift/corny Christmas sweater that Sybell doesn’t want. Then he’s all: Oh, if you wish for a betrothal, I can always arrange it. But you’ll have to be patient ( He knows she is far from capable of that) Joy is sorta 10 or 11, so no wedding for awhile. And honey…a lot can happen in awhile…meaning years…to you and yours. And most likely, for what you did you can bet on it. Count on it. I am. But I don’t want her family hurt. They have are nowhere near as culpable as her. But we know that in this series, families do get caught in the crossfire, just by being family, and through, sometimes, no fault of their own.

 

Then we get this gem: “His natural daughter?” Lady Sybell looked as if she swallowed a lemon. “You want a Westerling to marry a bastard?”

 

Just picture the sour, dour face, and the blow she just received. And the callous mistakes she just made here. Not showing a Lannister gratitude, which means pretending that the gilt covered piece of dog crap they just offered you is not a solid gold bar, and acknowledging it as such. She insulted his uncle, his family, and Joy personally. And she gave off airs about being a Westerling, when Jaime knows she will, and has, thrown her own family, her children, under a bus, er, a rapidly moving wheelhouse, and has probably acted and left her own husband out of the loop regarding her plotting and scheming and his kids too. And she is a Spicer. So having heirs don’t mean much to Jaime. Neither does her entitled temper tantrum/fits. She doesn’t even have the honesty to realize she is a hypocritical piece of crap herself. I’m not sure it even occurs to her or she is wired that way.

 

There is no other way to say it. “Oh, no, you didn’t?” Uh, Sybell.

 

And Jaime is like: You know a Lannister always pays their debts. Well, here you go. And you will like it. Or too bad.

 

Can you feel the roller coaster about to crest before the big drop at this point where it lets loose. Oh, I sure can.

 

I think I grabbed a drink at this point too. For entertainment purposes, of course…

 

So here is the “In your face, Sybell.” Let’s provide the full rant, uh, quote.

 

Jaime to Sybell:

 

"No more than I want Joy to marry the son of some scheming turncloak bitch. She deserves better." Jaime would happily have strangled the woman with her seashell necklace. Joy was a sweet child, albeit a lonely one; her father had been Jaime's favorite uncle. "Your daughter is worth ten of you, my lady. You'll leave with Edmure and Ser Forley on the morrow. Until then, you would do well to stay out of my sight." 

 

 

Whew…a bitch, she is a dog, and the very worst, a turncloak, in this series. Another, slap to the face: Gerion’s bastard, any bastard, deserves a better mother-in-law.  I think we might deduce that Jaime might be letting her know that he won’t do that to Joy either. We also know how the nobility feels about bastards, so in their world in the series, that is Jaime slighting Sybell. Wanting to strangle her and mentioning the material symbols, her necklace, tells us just how passionately he has contempt and disgust for her. Then he lets us know he has feelings. For Joy and his uncle.

 

Then the: you’re outta here. You will leave and stay the hell out of my sight, don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. People are dispensable, made to be used and discarded, as you did, now it is your turn. Shit, Sybell. I can only imagine the whirring going on in her mind. Worse that she is apparently quiet and steaming and stewing. She probably wants to slap him silly too. But she does show restraint here. And reminds herself this time that she can’t and it would be a very poor mistake. She is in hot water and she did not get what she schemed for. She, to put it plainly, is majorly f@cked. All of that for nothing.

 

Can we cue the Willy Wonka?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaoySOGlZ_U

 

“So you get nothing. You lose. Good day, sir.” Er, Good day, Sybelle. Damn.

 

I laughed out loud when Jaime shouted for a guardsman. He didn’t need one for just Sybell. He just did it for the extra slight and the drama. Hysterically funny.

 

“Lady Sybell went off with her lips pursed primly.” You know she is boiling.

 

Then Jaime considers her husband and this harpy’s machinations. And he is almost relieved not to be married to someone like her. He weighs the damage she has done to herself and her family.

 

Travelling to Riverrun was interesting too as Jaime has to pass the carriage bearing Sybell and Jeyne. He gives props to the ever-defiant, vigilant Jeyne who has ripped her clothes in mourning for Robb, and he knows it probably pissed her mother off even more. Worse now after her exchange with Jaime.

 

Sybell is not having a good day. Sybell on the other hand “…looked through him with eyes like chips of ice.”

 

Cold and proud to the end. But where does it get you sometimes? Her? Nowehere. Well, yeah. In deep sh@t.

 

We shall see in book 6 hopefully.

[Mad Madam Mim]

A highly entertaining read Booknerd!  I had a jolly good giggle!

 

You have given so much to chew on, so these are only initial thoughts....

 

Sybell reminds of a cross between the ambitious, tactless, pushiness of Mrs Bennett from Pride & Prejudice, and the deceitful, self-serving, opportunity-grabbing slimball-ness of Walder Frey. She’s like a vile pushy showbiz mum who ruthlessly foists her children in front of eligible partners and I hope we will see her get her comeuppance when the spice hits the fan...

 

...however, she is resourceful and quick-thinking and despite acting like a complete cow-bag, she does get herself and Jeyne out of a very sticky situation-so if it did happen to just be an act to keep them safe then it was very convincing!

 

With Maggy the Frog as her mum, there are theories that Sybell slipped Robb a love potion. There is a conversation between Kevin and Tyrion which seems to add credence to this theory:

 

 

 

Gawen is a good man, but his wife is Sybell Spicer. He should never have wed her. The Westerlings always did have more honor than sense. Lady Sybell's grandfather was a trader in saffron and pepper, almost as lowborn as that smuggler Stannis keeps. And the grandmother was some woman he'd brought back from the east. A frightening old crone, supposed to be a priestess. Maegi, they called her. No one could pronounce her real name. Half of Lannisport used to go to her for cures and love potions and the like." He shrugged. "She's long dead, to be sure. And Jeyne seemed a sweet child, I'll grant you, though I only saw her once. But with such doubtful blood . . ."

>snip<

"I am surprised," Tyrion had to confess. "I thought Robb Stark had better sense."

 

Sybell is a crafty one for sure!

 

ETA: and you are absolutely right about Jaime, he is on fire in this chapter!

[Le Cygne]

Sybell reminds of a cross between the ambitious, tactless, pushiness of Mrs Bennett from Pride & Prejudice, and the deceitful, self-serving, opportunity-grabbing slimball-ness of Walder Frey. She’s like a vile pushy showbiz mum who ruthlessly foists her children in front of eligible partners and I hope we will see her get her comeuppance when the spice hits the fan...

 
Bookie is back!
 
I need to read the new piece, but I was thinking about this before, and you provided the perfect quote.
 
[spoiler]The new Sansa chapter, there's a Red Wedding hint with Robb and then the very pointed spice remarks:
 
"Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want."
 
And here in your quote, he's talking about the Spicers trading saffron:
 

Gawen is a good man, but his wife is Sybell Spicer. He should never have wed her. The Westerlings always did have more honor than sense. Lady Sybell's grandfather was a trader in saffron and pepper, almost as lowborn as that smuggler Stannis keeps.

 
He also mentions cloves in that passage.
 

“Saffron?”  Alayne tried not to laugh.  “Truly?”
Ser Harrold had the grace to blush.  “Her father says she is more precious to him than gold.  He’s rich, the richest man in Gulltown.  A fortune in spices.”
“What will you name the babe?” she asked.  “Cinnamon if she’s a girl?  Cloves if he’s a boy?”

 
Saffron as Jeyne Westerling (a Spicer) fits. Harry and Alayne are a political betrothal, like Robb and Roslin. And Harry loves Saffron. And here's more:
 

"It would have been kinder to leave her with a bastard in her belly."

 
Saffron is pregnant with Harry's bastard.
 
While Harry is otherwise "engaged" with Saffron, Sansa has ghosts of Sandor dancing everywhere, throughout the chapter.
 
She literally runs into one (Harry the Arse!), bumps into another (he "caught her before she could fall"), dances with yet another (he mocks the knights and she laughs).
 
And much more (more here: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/123975-the-riverlands-web-v6/?p=6896958)...
 
[/spoiler]

[Le Cygne]

Post Question #25: Sybell Spicer is in Deep Sh@t – Part 2
Or, “Dudes, get out the popcorn, Sybell grab a stiff drink.”

 

"I was a young metalhead in grammar school..."

 

I tried 10 times to get past how casually you dropped that line, I kept laughing.

 

And I'm never going to read Jaime taking down Sybell without "office hours" and "oh, snap" in my head. That needs to be written into the story.

 

She damn near wrestled the crown off the kid! Lord of Castamere, not much better than Harrenhal! (Speaking of which, I'd love to actually see LF in Harrenhal, the horror story that ensues.) Willy Wonka, Good day, sir! :lol:

 

That was hilarious! You should do that for the entire book. Take us through it.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Awesome read bookie, laughed out loud !  And great to see you back and away from the busies. 

 

First off, you didn't have to work hard to get my attention, Beavis and Butthead hooked it, but then you drop the [Iron] Maiden reference and I'm in, fully divulged !  I too was a 90's school teen raging against the machine [mostly Maiden and Nirvana actually] so I felt your thoughts and could relate to them.  But then I just started to do that laugh and think of what a great tune The Prisoner is !  I jest, you really did have my attention.   :P  

 

Anyway, great essay !  Funny as always, and a real breakdown of Sybell's attitude and motives, good work.  She really is a piece of work isn't she ?  Openly scheming for her own benefit with seemingly no notion of what this is doing for her family and their reputation, painful to watch actually, a real slap forehead moment !  And you're right, Jaime isn't having any of it.  I agree that her brother receiving Castamere is an ominous omen, and perhaps something to keep an eye on.  And I can't help feeling that Maggy the frog being Jeyne's grandmother will come into play as well, some cool ideas on the love potions from MMM up thread. 

 

And of course, we know we will likely see Sybell straight away in TWOW prologue, we won't have to wait long to have more info [we hope] and I feel she may be in danger.  If we do see an attempted rescue of Edmure + Jeyne, possibly involving BF, there will surely be casualties, and we last saw Sybell set up as basically a..... bitch.  So perhaps her time is up ?  There's a prediction for you, probably wrong as usual, but that's what I see happening, the attempted rescue at the least.   :dunno:

 

By the way, the Metallica reference and Willy Wonka moment were great, very enjoyable read !      :D

[Wizz-The-Smith]

"I was a young metalhead in grammar school..."
 
I tried 10 times to get past how casually you dropped that line, I kept laughing.
 
And I'm never going to read Jaime taking down Sybell without "office hours" and "oh, snap" in my head. That needs to be written into the story.
 
She damn near wrestled the crown off the kid! Lord of Castamere, not much better than Harrenhal! (Speaking of which, I'd love to actually see LF in Harrenhal, the horror story that ensues.) Willy Wonka, Good day, sir! :lol:
 
That was hilarious! You should do that for the entire book. Take us through it.

 

Hey Le Cygne !  I too was a young metalhead at school, and still am, and loved that casual drop too, I felt right at home.  We need that head banging emoticon. 

 

And I would definitely read bookie's version of events for the entire book, great detail but also I agree the commentary would be hilarious !   :laugh:

[Booknerd2]

And it happens again. So happy to post and even happier to be back on with all of you, and I had stuff to do….again, had to dodge the home to go do it and not post.

 

So here is a big hello to start off, and now I can get back to all the comments and respond.

 

:grouphug: Whoah….Wolf Pack!

 

:commie: Jaime Lannister in-your-facing-Sybell 

 

Head-banging to the Prisoner with Beavis and Butthead   :bowdown:

 

My face when I first read Sybell "reminding" Jaime of things.   :shocked:

 

The only smileys available to me so, I stretch.

[Booknerd2]

Double Post. Drat.

[Booknerd2]

A highly entertaining read Booknerd!  I had a jolly good giggle!

 

You have given so much to chew on, so these are only initial thoughts....

 

Sybell reminds of a cross between the ambitious, tactless, pushiness of Mrs Bennett from Pride & Prejudice, and the deceitful, self-serving, opportunity-grabbing slimball-ness of Walder Frey. She’s like a vile pushy showbiz mum who ruthlessly foists her children in front of eligible partners and I hope we will see her get her comeuppance when the spice hits the fan...

 

...however, she is resourceful and quick-thinking and despite acting like a complete cow-bag, she does get herself and Jeyne out of a very sticky situation-so if it did happen to just be an act to keep them safe then it was very convincing!

 

With Maggy the Frog as her mum, there are theories that Sybell slipped Robb a love potion. There is a conversation between Kevin and Tyrion which seems to add credence to this theory:

 

 

Sybell is a crafty one for sure!

 

ETA: and you are absolutely right about Jaime, he is on fire in this chapter!

 

 

Ok, just saying. That is a winner. I can't stop laughing at "cow-bag." That is the best! So damn funny.

 

I love the Bennet reference, stage mom is perfect, and so is the Walder Frey comparison. Spot on.

 

"….when the spice hits the fan." LOL! So funny.

 

There is a little nagging feeling, wondering if she is somehow going to weasel her way out of danger a little longer, but I don't dwell on it. Really, the climax was Jaime telling her ass off, so I think her walk out of his "office" is the walk to the end of the plank, so to speak.

 

Oh, the Maggy thing. Having that relation pointed out, so means it most likely will be revisited. 

 

I will never forget the first time I read the exchange. I couldn't believe it. I mean, he really let her have it. It was great! And his big finish at the end was superb.

[Booknerd2]

 
Bookie is back!
 
I need to read the new piece, but I was thinking about this before, and you provided the perfect quote.
 
[spoiler]The new Sansa chapter, there's a Red Wedding hint with Robb and then the very pointed spice remarks:
 
"Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want."
 
And here in your quote, he's talking about the Spicers trading saffron:
 

 
He also mentions cloves in that passage.
 

 
Saffron as Jeyne Westerling (a Spicer) fits. Harry and Alayne are a political betrothal, like Robb and Roslin. And Harry loves Saffron. And here's more:
 

 
Saffron is pregnant with Harry's bastard.
 
While Harry is otherwise "engaged" with Saffron, Sansa has ghosts of Sandor dancing everywhere, throughout the chapter.
 
She literally runs into one (Harry the Arse!), bumps into another (he "caught her before she could fall"), dances with yet another (he mocks the knights and she laughs).
 
And much more (more here: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/123975-the-riverlands-web-v6/?p=6896958)...
 
[/spoiler]

 

 

How, just how do you do it? I did not pick up on any of that. I was so overwhelmed about what I read in that chapter, I missed connections to other things. Truly, even after reading it about three times, it is apparent there is a lot going on there. Excellent work! I don't even know what to say. Again, the multi-layers and seeds in this series is just amazing.

[Booknerd2]

 

"I was a young metalhead in grammar school..."

 

I tried 10 times to get past how casually you dropped that line, I kept laughing.

 

And I'm never going to read Jaime taking down Sybell without "office hours" and "oh, snap" in my head. That needs to be written into the story.

 

She damn near wrestled the crown off the kid! Lord of Castamere, not much better than Harrenhal! (Speaking of which, I'd love to actually see LF in Harrenhal, the horror story that ensues.) Willy Wonka, Good day, sir! :lol:

 

That was hilarious! You should do that for the entire book. Take us through it.

 

 

Thank so much. And among many things, the author is hilarious with a riotous sense of humor. There are many things going on in that chapter. Drama, romance, sorrow, and I take none of that away, but equally, if one is a reader who really knows the character of Jaime and Sybell, that exchange is laugh out loud funny. Just like how many of us get a big kick out Victarion or Dorkstar. Multi-layered and the humor at times goes from very subtle, to very distinct, because when you love characters and become familiar with them, and when someone has really painted such a vivid picture of their personalities, some of their personal quirks and things they do or say can be humorous.

 

I may throw that out to you guys. If anyone has a suggestion of a chapter I should maybe bring some funny, for entertainment purposes, I would totally be willing to do it. That exchange was easy because it was great. I did not expect it. I was in shock, happy he told her off, yet rolling on the floor when the pie hit her face. I didn't expect her to be called out on all her misdeeds in one powerful shot.

 

I remember doing the Arya-Edric-Gendry essay and how easy it was to discuss it, because it was so funny. Gendry was so catty and pissed at Edric, it was hilarious. And Arya telling him off was great too. Edric letting it all fly and being the easy-going foil was perfect.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

A fun little tid bit.  GRRM recently did a documentary for a new channel in Britain called Sky Arts.  The show was called 'The south bank show' hosted by Melvyn Bragg.  It was an enjoyable watch, I tried to find a link on the net, but alas I could not find anything, worth a watch if you can get hold of it.

 

Anyhow, about half way through [maybe a little more] the conversation turned to the fandom, and in particular the various websites and forums dedicated to his work.  As a backdrop to this the documentary showed the skin of Westeros.org in the background, and I spotted Mad Madam Mimms avatar on screen, so slowed and paused, and then looking further down I saw booknerd2's Riverlands Web V.6 as one of the threads on screen as well !  For some strange reason I felt a small moment of pride that we were there for all to see in a GRRM documentary, and bookie and MMM got on screen for real, so close to innocuous fame ! Proud, yet very jealous.   :lol:    

[Booknerd2]

A fun little tid bit.  GRRM recently did a documentary for a new channel in Britain called Sky Arts.  The show was called 'The south bank show' hosted by Melvyn Bragg.  It was an enjoyable watch, I tried to find a link on the net, but alas I could not find anything, worth a watch if you can get hold of it.

 

Anyhow, about half way through [maybe a little more] the conversation turned to the fandom, and in particular the various websites and forums dedicated to his work.  As a backdrop to this the documentary showed the skin of Westeros.org in the background, and I spotted Mad Madam Mimms avatar on screen, so slowed and paused, and then looking further down I saw booknerd2's Riverlands Web V.6 as one of the threads on screen as well !  For some strange reason I felt a small moment of pride that we were there for all to see in a GRRM documentary, and bookie and MMM got on screen for real, so close to innocuous fame ! Proud, yet very jealous.   :lol:    

 

 

Get out. How about that. 

 

How funny if it was something different and threads were highlighted?

 

People would be scratching their head. Who is Dorkwood and why are those people going on about a pissed off horse and red-sweater with a dog on it? LOL! Somebody would be like, "Hey, what the hell is SandorSpeak?" (for Mimms) LOL!

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Get out. How about that. 
 
How funny if it was something different and threads were highlighted?
 
People would be scratching their head. Who is Dorkwood and why are those people going on about a pissed off horse and red-sweater with a dog on it? LOL! Somebody would be like, "Hey, what the hell is SandorSpeak?" (for Mimms) LOL!

 

Haha !  It wasn't our actual musings, rather the list of threads that we may see when searching the theories section or the re-read section, The Riverlands Web V.6 was there, as was Varysfan's 'Did BR kill Baelor Breakspear' etc...... It was like page 1,2 or 3 of any section we look at, still pretty damn cool though !  :)

[Booknerd2]

Awesome read bookie, laughed out loud !  And great to see you back and away from the busies. 

 

First off, you didn't have to work hard to get my attention, Beavis and Butthead hooked it, but then you drop the [Iron] Maiden reference and I'm in, fully divulged !  I too was a 90's school teen raging against the machine [mostly Maiden and Nirvana actually] so I felt your thoughts and could relate to them.  But then I just started to do that laugh and think of what a great tune The Prisoner is !  I jest, you really did have my attention.   :P  

 

Anyway, great essay !  Funny as always, and a real breakdown of Sybell's attitude and motives, good work.  She really is a piece of work isn't she ?  Openly scheming for her own benefit with seemingly no notion of what this is doing for her family and their reputation, painful to watch actually, a real slap forehead moment !  And you're right, Jaime isn't having any of it.  I agree that her brother receiving Castamere is an ominous omen, and perhaps something to keep an eye on.  And I can't help feeling that Maggy the frog being Jeyne's grandmother will come into play as well, some cool ideas on the love potions from MMM up thread. 

 

And of course, we know we will likely see Sybell straight away in TWOW prologue, we won't have to wait long to have more info [we hope] and I feel she may be in danger.  If we do see an attempted rescue of Edmure + Jeyne, possibly involving BF, there will surely be casualties, and we last saw Sybell set up as basically a..... bitch.  So perhaps her time is up ?  There's a prediction for you, probably wrong as usual, but that's what I see happening, the attempted rescue at the least.   :dunno:

 

By the way, the Metallica reference and Willy Wonka moment were great, very enjoyable read !      :D

 

 

Great to be back. IT really stinks when you get that case of the busies where you just can't even sit down to comment decently. 

 

Thanks so much. And yeah, doesn't she realize that you should break out in a cold sweat when a relative is given Castamere. EVERYONE knows what happened to them. Castamere is like that piece of retail space for rent that everyone has in a town. There is always that one place that becomes like 10 different restaurants in five years. Nobody can ever make a go of it. It is like the space is cursed. Now, every place next to it on both sides and across is fine, and usually places that stay in business for years. Except that one. lol. As is Harrenhal. The billion dollar mansion nobody is sure they want to buy into, just because.

 

Yeah, Sybell will have her comeuppance. But bastards like her never die. Or first, if they do. I think she will be hurt by something happening to her family. She will only care that she loses negotiating and social mobility power by losing children. Not sure she will shed too many tears. And I am waiting for Mr. Westerling to also verbally let her have it. I am waiting for him say:" Ok, guess what, Mrs.-Not-So-Smooth-Operator? And you're done. Donezo. You can't handle anything for whatever is left of this family for here on end, like for forever. Oh, and I want a divorce. Pronto."

 

I think too that the Maggy/Sybell thing has to come up again.