Jon's "Resurrection"

[Jô Maltese]

Are you sure you're not conflating the books with the show here? But regardless, we don't have any info to suggest that Thoros can resurrect anyone other than Beric. Thoros said that his "kiss of life" had never brought back anyone before and with his time in the temple he had never seen this done before. We don't have any evidence that any other red priests have resurrected anyone. Even Thoros, has only brought back Beric even though his brotherhood has certainly lost other people as well. I think there may be something particular about Beric (and perhaps Cat) that allows for their resurrection.

No, I´m not sure ;) And I meant Thoros, not Beric, of course. I know GRRM said that the TV series are not book cannon, still I believe that they contain no major plot change. IMO most of the differences either point at a book dead end (e.g. pregnant Tulisa/Jeyne W's death) or are shortcuts to necessary prerequisites to the overall story conclusion (e.g. Stannis and the Iron Bank, Lannister's empty gold mines). So I think it's fair to consider that Mel will not revive anybody...

[tf13]

I posted this on /r/asoiaf, but I'll send it here, too, since there's a lot of talk about the same subject:

While on a reread of AGOT, I was reading Arya IV, where she escapes the Gold Cloaks and goes back into the lower levels of the Red Keep, there's some foreshadowing to Jon's future.

There's one parallel that simultaneously happens, between Arya's physical presence and the scene she's depicting in her mind. As we know, dragon skulls are kept down there that are centuries old, that she's initially afraid of and then feels a little bit better towards during her second go-round. And really, doesn't even know what they are the first time. Only when she brings a candle down is when she knows what they are.

While scrumming around down there, she remembers the Winterfell Crypts when Robb and Jon prank the younger Starks, and Jon appears covered in flour, pretending to be a ghost, and frightens Bran, Arya and Sansa.

I'm in the boat with Jon being comatose while his body is recovering, and will have a visit down to the Crypts while he is "covered in flour", looking dead, or (actually being) like a ghost himself. Interestingly enough, Arya is in the presence of physical dragons, albeit their bones, while thinking of this story, so Jon will learn of his parentage down there, probably through Ned. Basically Jon's visit to the underworld and the knowledge he receives down there is a parallel to Greek mythology (visiting the underworld, coming back with knowledge that will allow them to triumph).

[Fire Eater]

I posted this on /r/asoiaf, but I'll send it here, too, since there's a lot of talk about the same subject:

While on a reread of AGOT, I was reading Arya IV, where she escapes the Gold Cloaks and goes back into the lower levels of the Red Keep, there's some foreshadowing to Jon's future.

There's one parallel that simultaneously happens, between Arya's physical presence and the scene she's depicting in her mind. As we know, dragon skulls are kept down there that are centuries old, that she's initially afraid of and then feels a little bit better towards during her second go-round. And really, doesn't even know what they are the first time. Only when she brings a candle down is when she knows what they are.

While scrumming around down there, she remembers the Winterfell Crypts when Robb and Jon prank the younger Starks, and Jon appears covered in flour, pretending to be a ghost, and frightens Bran, Arya and Sansa.

I'm in the boat with Jon being comatose while his body is recovering, and will have a visit down to the Crypts while he is "covered in flour", looking dead, or (actually being) like a ghost himself. Interestingly enough, Arya is in the presence of physical dragons, albeit their bones, while thinking of this story, so Jon will learn of his parentage down there, probably through Ned. Basically Jon's visit to the underworld and the knowledge he receives down there is a parallel to Greek mythology (visiting the underworld, coming back with knowledge that will allow them to triumph).

That's not a bad argument, connecting Arya's time in the RK with the dragon skulls with her memory of Jon as a ghost in the crypts of WF. He rises from the crypt in the memory, signifying his return from "death."

Who is down there? Bran who will no doubt be with Jon in the dream. Sansa who is called a "little bird" and stays at the Eyrie which brings to mind BR for obvious reasons. Arya who is often compared to Lyanna. Robb who was Lord of WF who went south to war to avenge his father who was murdered by the king in KL, but was murdered and decapitated brings to mind Ned. I think the ones present with Jon in the crypts will be Bran, BR, Ned and Lyanna (who was in Ned's crypt dream).

[LCMormont_1529]

The hero's journey involves a visit to the underworld, not necessarily death. Odysseus doesn't die to visit the underworld, neither does Aneis.[/]

I don't think a visit to the underworld is necessary during a heroes journey. A character just needs to hit an abyss, or their rock bottom, and it's during that period something is revealed and he (or she, see below) is reborn. Later, there is the actual transformation of the character which I believe will be Jon's main storyline in the next book.

A little off topic, but one could argue that Dany is at the same point as Jon - in a literary perspective - and will be reborn as...AA? PTwP? A conquerer? Something else?

GRRM has set up a period of time where Jon's physical body will go through a traumatic time. During whic, his third-eye will be ripe for exploring/honing/developing via BR or Bran. He's (GRRM) used this plot device (is that the right literary device?) with Bran when he was in his coma following his fall, Arya when she went blind after drinking the Kindly Man's milk concotion, and, to a degree, Jojen with his sickness (overall physical weakness? Or am I mixing up the books and show here?). Jon will be out of commission for awhile whether it be dead or unconscious but will be awoken through a magical process. Unlike unCat or unBeric, he will keep his sense of self since he will have warged into Ghost...OBVIOUSLY for just enough time to learn but not lose himself inside his wolf, because what good will that do for the story lol.

I think GRRM has set up how he will be reborn/reanimated with unBeric, unCat, and Victarion (sp?) but, again, will be a different result due to warging...wasn't clear earlier but I think he dies. Otherwise, why leave Mel at the Wall? I keep hoping that won't be the case and he is in a coma, unconscious, etc. but the more I think on it, the more it makes sense, unfortunately...I really don't like Mel, everything she does just feels evil to me. Although, I think she will end up being Jon's temptress during the hero's journey, post-rebirth, as Ygitte was his true love. And that's why I don't like her as I'm assuming things about the character that she will become for our hero.

Again off topic (sorry!) but wouldn't it be interesting for GRRM to tell the story of our hero (IMO Jon) as well as the "villan" or maybe more accurately the anti-hero (Dany). And by anti-hero, I mean a POV of the Others via the opposite end of the spectrum (Fire). With her story he has created compassion for the "enemy" whom really isn't an enemy just a race that wants what's best for their people.

Sorry for that last bit, it's been running around my head recently and had to get it out to like-minded people. I haven't gone through the entire thread so if I'm just rehashing old thought I apologize! Love this board!

[Mithras]

After Jon is "resurrected":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA

[tf13]

Not sure this has any important, but on top of the "Oftimes the blood came before the pain [sic]" quote in the Barristan chapter, and how that is tied in with Jon's stabbing, Jon VIII in AGOT talks about this, as well.

"Jon flexed his bandaged fingers to show him. He had burned himself more badly than he knew throwing the flaming drapes, and his right hand was swathed in silk halfway to the elbow. At the time he'd felt nothing; the agony had come after. His cracked red skin oozed fluid, and fearsome blood blisters rose between his fingers, big as roaches. 'The maester says I'll have scars, but otherwise the hand should be as good as it was before.'"

[King of the Bastards]

I also doubt that Jon is going to be brought back like UnBeric and UnCat through R'hllor as that would be a trite overuse of that trick. Also, as butterbumps! pointed out, Jon being resurrected that way would leave less point to his story as there would be no way for his character to develop with his memory and mind regressing. Those are the reasons why I think he is comatose. The cold of the Wall could freeze his wounds like it did Ser Adrian Scrope at the Battle of Edgehill.

Could you provide a link to that or tell me more about it? Seems interesting.

[Fire Eater]

Could you provide a link to that or tell me more about it? Seems interesting.

Link:

According to Aubrey: “He told me that Sir Adrian Scrope was dangerously wounded there, and left for dead amongst the dead men, stript; which happened to be the saving of his life. It was cold clear weather, and a frost that night; which staunched his bleeding, and at about midnight, or some hours after his hurte, he awaked, and was faine to draw a dead body upon him for warmth-sake.”

[King of the Bastards]

Link:

Great! Thanx!!!

[jon316]

I believe that when melissandra leaves the shield hall after learning of stanis' death see burns shireen begging for rholor to revive "azhor ahhia" (sorry for my spelling) and unknowingly brings jon back to life without even knowing hes dead. Just my personal theory.

[dbrandow]

I agree it would be interesting, and I personally believe, that Dany will turn out to be the anti-hero. Her character arc seems to be leading towards the notion that she can't effectively govern, but she does start revolutions and engage in war pretty well, Fire and Blood. That doesn't mean she's the villain, per se, but more the representative of "Fire" in the "Ice vs. Fire" war. Jon, in my mind, is the "hero" of the story, but he's not in opposition to Dany, he's caught in the middle, he's the one that will re-establish the truce between the opposing factions (and, I think, that will also lead to the seasons being restored to a natural cycle, possibly after having been disrupted by the overuse of magic by the children of the forest in an attempt to defend themselves against human encroachment).

[jon316]

What if danny and jon marry and together they can effectivelly rule as ice and fire balancing the 7 kingdoms.

[Daendrew]

It is going to be a desurrection.

The prince that was promised to break down the wall and herald the end.

But at least once we are dead we can never die.

[Fire Eater]

What if danny and jon marry and together they can effectivelly rule as ice and fire balancing the 7 kingdoms.

Except if Dany is fire by being a Targaryen, wouldn't that make Jon fire too given he is also a Targaryen? Jon is already ice and fire given his Stark and Targaryen heritage.

It is going to be a desurrection.

The prince that was promised to break down the wall and herald the end.

But at least once we are dead we can never die.

I don't think that will happen until ADoS.

[rebeme]

My thoughts on the best way for Jon to be resurrected so the whole plot can move forward expeditiously:

 

He doesn't warg into Ghost, he wargs into a crow – possibly Mormont's crow – with Bran or Brydan inside (birds are easy, right?).  Maybe it pecks his 'third-eye'.  Then the crow, with Jon's spirit, flies north of the Wall to the tree and Jon (in the bird) sees Bran and Bryndan.  They tell him R+L = J  (who else in the world can?).  Maybe they tell Meera, too, if you believe the twin theory.  B&B also probably tell him of future deeds he needs to accomplish to save the planet, or at least some nice foreshadowing.  Anyways, this news makes Jon not want to die.

 

Meanwhile, back at the Wall…  Mel has taken Jon's body and has tried to resurrect a la Beric/Thoros.  She has success at healing the wounds, but Jon won't awake.  Eventually, the Night's Watch takes the body from her, and proclaim Jon dead.  They build the funeral pyre, light the match, and go through the ceremony.  The say, 'and now his watch is over', freeing Jon from his duty and being honor-bound to the Wall (because how can you have a hero save the world if he is chained to the Wall?).  In the nick of time, the crow flies back, Jon reanimates, and walks out of the fire like Dany Book 1. 

 

After that, well, I don't know.  I just hope he leaves the Night's Watch and Wall to do something exciting.  

[Fire Eater]

My thoughts on the best way for Jon to be resurrected so the whole plot can move forward expeditiously:

 

He doesn't warg into Ghost, he wargs into a crow – possibly Mormont's crow – with Bran or Brydan inside (birds are easy, right?).  Maybe it pecks his 'third-eye'.  Then the crow, with Jon's spirit, flies north of the Wall to the tree and Jon (in the bird) sees Bran and Bryndan.  They tell him R+L = J  (who else in the world can?).  Maybe they tell Meera, too, if you believe the twin theory.  B&B also probably tell him of future deeds he needs to accomplish to save the planet, or at least some nice foreshadowing.  Anyways, this news makes Jon not want to die.

 

Meanwhile, back at the Wall…  Mel has taken Jon's body and has tried to resurrect a la Beric/Thoros.  She has success at healing the wounds, but Jon won't awake.  Eventually, the Night's Watch takes the body from her, and proclaim Jon dead.  They build the funeral pyre, light the match, and go through the ceremony.  The say, 'and now his watch is over', freeing Jon from his duty and being honor-bound to the Wall (because how can you have a hero save the world if he is chained to the Wall?).  In the nick of time, the crow flies back, Jon reanimates, and walks out of the fire like Dany Book 1. 

 

After that, well, I don't know.  I just hope he leaves the Night's Watch and Wall to do something exciting.  

Welcome to the forum first of all.  :cheers:

 

I think it is more likely Ghost since he is the only animal Jon shares a bond with along with Varamyr's comment on Ghost being a second life fit for a king. BR and Bran can visit Jon while he is Ghost since Bran didn't need to skinchange for BR to reach him. BR has been trying to talk to Jon for some time by the looks of it.

 

I don't think Melisandre will try to resurrect Jon. I don't think she believes he is important enough to attempt that. AA being resurrected in the place of smoke and salt brings to mind the storerooms containing the smoked and salted meats. Jon going back to his body wouldn't stop the flames IMO, and the NW doesn't burn the bodies of those who died south of the Wall.

 

I don't think Jon will leave the NW given he knows the threat of the Others, and wouldn't abandon the Wall.  

[LmL]

Just wanted to drop the quote which someone alluded to above:

 

Robb took them all the way down to the end, past Grandfather and Brandon and Lyanna, to show them their own tombs. Sansa kept looking at the stubby little candle, anxious that it might go out. Old Nan had told her there were spiders down here, and rats as big as dogs. (Nightfort reference, think Night's King and Other creation) Robb smiled when she said that. “There are worse things than spiders and rats,” he whispered. “This is where the dead walk.” That was when they heard the sound, low and deep and shivery. Baby Bran had clutched at Arya’s hand.

 

When the spirit stepped out of the open tomb, pale white and moaning for blood, Sansa ran shrieking for the stairs, and Bran wrapped himself around Robb’s leg, sobbing. Arya stood her ground and gave the spirit a punch. It was only Jon, covered with flour. “You stupid,” she told him, “you scared the baby,” but Jon and Robb just laughed and laughed, and pretty soon Bran and Arya were laughing too.

 

The memory made Arya smile, and after that the darkness held no more terrors for her. The stableboy was dead, she’d killed him, and if he jumped out at her she’d kill him again. She was going home. Everything would be better once she was home again, safe behind Winterfell’s grey granite walls.

 

Her footsteps sent soft echoes hurrying ahead of her as Arya plunged deeper into the darkness.

 

There's also this one, which is a bit of a match:

 

"Othor,” (Other?) announced Ser Jaremy Rykker, “beyond a doubt. And this one was Jafer Flowers.” He turned the corpse over with his foot, and the dead white face stared up at the overcast sky with blue, blue eyes. “They were Ben Stark’s men, both of them.” My uncle’s men , Jon thought numbly. He remembered how he’d pleaded to ride with them. Gods, I was such a green boy. If he had taken me, it might be me lying here …

[...]

Last night he had dreamt the Winterfell dream again. He was wandering the empty castle, searching for his father, descending into the crypts. Only this time the dream had gone further than before. In the dark he’d heard the scrape of stone on stone. When he turned he saw that the vaults were opening, one after the other. As the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves, Jon had woken in pitch- dark, his heart hammering. Even when Ghost leapt up on the bed to nuzzle at his face, he could not shake his deep sense of terror. He dared not go back to sleep. Instead he had climbed the Wall and walked, restless, until he saw the light of the dawn off to the east. It was only a dream. I am a brother of the Night’s Watch now, not a frightened boy. 

 

One more time, for emphasis: As the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves, Jon had woken

[LmL]

Some other "Jon rising from the dead" quotes:

“Nor live, I hope,” Mormont said, cutting his ham with a dagger and feeding a bite to the bird. “You have not deserted— yet. Here you stand. If we beheaded every boy who rode to Mole’s Town in the night, only ghosts would guard the Wall. Yet maybe you mean to flee again on the morrow, or a fortnight from now. Is that it? Is that your hope, boy?” Jon kept silent. “I thought so.” Mormont peeled the shell off a boiled egg. “Your father is dead, lad. Do you think you can bring him back?”

 

“No,” he answered, sullen.

 

“Good,” Mormont said. “We’ve seen the dead come back, you and me, and it’s not something I care to see again."  (AGOT, Jon)

 

 

He knelt and reached a gloved hand down into the maw. The inside of the hollow was red with dried sap and blackened by fire. Beneath the skull he saw another, smaller, the jaw broken off. It was half- buried in ash and bits of bone. When he brought the skull to Mormont, the Old Bear lifted it in both hands and stared into the empty sockets. “The wildlings burn their dead. We’ve always known that. Now I wished I’d asked them why, when there were still a few around to ask.” Jon Snow remembered the wight rising, its eyes shining blue in the pale dead face. He knew why, he was certain. “Would that bones could talk,” the Old Bear grumbled. “This fellow could tell us much. How he died. Who burned him, and why. Where the wildlings have gone.” He sighed. “The children of the forest could speak to the dead, it’s said. But I can’t.” He tossed the skull back into the mouth of the tree, where it landed with a puff of fine ash. “Go through all these houses. Giant, get to the top of this tree, have a look. I’ll have the hounds brought up too. Perchance this time the trail will be fresher.” His tone did not suggest that he held out much hope of the last.  (ACOK, JON)

 

When "Corn King Jon Snow" (Corn King = sacrificed to bring spring) lets the wildlings through the Wall, there is a ton of Others clues:

 

Amongst the stream of warriors were the fathers of many of Jon’s hostages. Some stared with cold dead eyes as they went by, fingering their sword hilts. Others smiled at him like long- lost kin, though a few of those smiles discomfited Jon Snow more than any glare. None knelt, but many gave him their oaths.

[...]

Other lads had bear- paws on their boots and walked on top of the same drifts, never sinking through the crust.  (just like the Others, who do not break the snow when they walk)

[...]

A few were clad in stolen steel, dinted oddments of armor looted from the corpses of fallen rangers. Others had armored themselves in bones, like Rattleshirt. All wore fur and leather.

 

After the riders came the men of the Frozen Shore. Jon watched a dozen of their big bone chariots roll past him one by one, clattering like Rattleshirt. Half still rolled as before; others had replaced their wheels with runners. They slid across the snowdrifts smoothly, where the wheeled chariots were foundering and sinking.

[...]

By afternoon the sun had gone, and the day turned grey and gusty. “A snow sky,” Tormund announced grimly. Others had seen the same omen in those flat white clouds. It seemed to spur them on to haste. Tempers began to fray. One man was stabbed when he tried to slip in ahead of others (this is the only "Others" double entendre I am not sure of in this chapter, it's not a dead ringer like "others who don't sink in the snow") who had been hours in the column. Toregg wrenched the knife away from his attacker, dragged both men from the press, and sent them back to the wildling camp to start again.

[...]

“Tormund,” Jon said, as they watched four old women pull a cartful of children toward the gate, “tell me of our foe. I would know all there is to know of the Others.” The wildling rubbed his mouth. “Not here,” he mumbled, “not this side o’ your Wall.” The old man glanced uneasily toward the trees in their white mantles. “They’re never far, you know. They won’t come out by day, not when that old sun’s shining, but don’t think that means they went away. Shadows never go away. Might be you don’t see them, but they’re always clinging to your heels.”  (Tormund and Jon go on to discuss the others, and coming after all these clues, I find it as a confirmation that that is the subject of the metaphors in this chapter)

 

Notice the glances toward the trees when discussing others, who are also called the "white walkers of the wood." The Others are called "pale shadows," and when Dany dreams of fighting foes on dragon back at the trident, they are armored in ice. Jon too was armored in ice in his Azor Ahai / flaming sword dream atop the Wall.

 

Fear drove him to his feet, reeling. Holding his side to staunch the seep of blood from his wound, Varamyr lurched to the door and swept aside the ragged skin that covered it to face a wall of white. Snow. (Jon Snow reference?) No wonder it had grown so dark and smoky inside. The falling snow had buried the hut. (Long Night reference)

 

When Varamyr pushed at it, the snow crumbled and gave way, still soft and wet. Outside, the night was white as death; pale thin clouds danced attendance on a silver moon, while a thousand stars watched coldly. He could see the humped shapes of other huts buried beneath drifts of snow, and beyond them the pale shadow of a weirwood armored in ice. :eek: To the south and west the hills were a vast white wilderness where nothing moved except the blowing snow.

[...]

The trees had grown icy teeth, snarling down from the bare brown branches. One Eye ripped through the undergrowth, spraying snow. His packmates followed. Up a hill and down the slope beyond, until the wood opened before them and the men were there.

 

These next couple are from The Wayward Bride in ADWD. 

 

The wooden watchtower was the tallest thing this side of the mountains, rising twenty feet above the biggest sentinels and soldier pines in the surrounding woods. “There, Captain,” said Cromm, when she made the platform. Asha saw only trees and shadows, the moonlit hills and the snowy peaks beyond. Then she realized that trees were creeping closer. “Oho,” she laughed, “these mountain goats have cloaked themselves in pine boughs.” The woods were on the move, creeping toward the castle like a slow green tide. She thought back to a tale she had heard as a child, about the children of the forest and their battles with the First Men, when the greenseers turned the trees to warriors. :eek: 

[...]

Tall soldier pines and gnarled old oaks closed in around them. Deepwood was aptly named. The trees were huge and dark, somehow threatening. Their limbs wove through one another and creaked with every breath of wind, and their higher branches scratched at the face of the moon. The sooner we are shut of here, the better I will like it , Asha thought. The trees hate us all, deep in their wooden hearts .

 

After the scouts had vanished into the trees, the rest of the ironborn resumed their march, but the going was slow. The trees hid the moon and stars from them, and the forest floor beneath their feet was black and treacherous.

[...]

 These trees will kill us if they can.

[...]

“Seven,” shouted Grimtongue, but beside him Lorren Longaxe sprawled with one leg twisted under him, and the shadows kept on coming, shouting and rustling. We are fighting shrubbery , Asha thought as she slew a man who had more leaves on him than most of the surrounding trees. That made her laugh.

 

​This is only scratching the surface of the "trees personified as warriors or icy warriors" quotes. They are in every book - they are especially thick in the prologue of book one. I could do an entire chapter breakdown on that one, just to highlight the personified trees trying to kill the NW and Ser Waymar especially.

​Fireeater, I hope some of that might be helpful. Most likely you've noticed a lot of this before... once you nice, these passages leap off the page... again, in every book. 

If you're interested in comparing notes further, let me know and we can chat. 

[Ser Creighton]

Hmmmm, you know I just wrote something in R+L=J about resurrection, not so much about Jon but there is an association there. It's pretty much drowning in symbolism and religion. But some interesting things. But be warned it is based off of numerology and the Tower of Joy. It's pretty complex and you have to have a good understanding of symbolism and religion. I am not religious, but... Just here. It's about the number 8.

 

"Well if we are talking about the 8 cairns, I have some crackpot about it. Not sure if it means anything but Ser Creighton is going to do numbers again, but just for a minute. Don't be scared it will be okay, and there is no corn involved. 3 numbers stand out at the Tower of Joy, 3, 7, and 8. Going to do a quick look at 8. You might actually want to read this by the way, you will see why, it's good I promise. Hmmmm that's a stretch, it's interesting. It's not as long as it looks there are parts you can feel free to skip, they are just supporting quotes, and I will even let you know when to skip."

 

8 like 3 is a very religious number in numerology, of note the bible and Buddhism.

 

Start with Buddhism, the Buddhist symbol is the 8 spoke wheel known as the Dharma wheel, very complex not going to go that into it. At the center of the wheel are 3 treasures, also known as the 3 jewels, sometimes it's depicted as a yin yang and sometimes it's this red white and blue sort of yin yang swirl, more often than not it is simply refereed to as Joy. It's also heavily tied to life death and rebirth. A lot of those themes you will see in the books.

 

Ser Arthur Dayne and Ned, "and so it begins and so it ends.' Sorry paraphrasing.

 

The beginning and the end, the end and the beginning. Life and death, but also very symbolic of the Alpha and the Omega.

 

The historic Christian Church has traditionally associated the Number 8 with the entrance into the Covenant of God. This understanding comes from God Himself who commanded Circumcision - the Sign of the Covenant - to be performed on the Eighth Day. God used the same language - אות ברית (Ot B'rit, Sign of the Covenant) - when He gave the Rainbow (Genesis 9.13):

 

What do skittles have to do with this? I don't know but I am googling like a mad man.

 

"I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth."

 

So it's actually associated with covenant and light. In Hebrew Chet (8) and light are one in the same.

 

Keep reading.

 

"The word "rainbow" (קשת, qeshet) used in this verse sums to the Number 800 which also is the value of the Greek words "Lord" and "Faith." It also is the value of the final letter of the Greek alphabet, Omega."

 

More than likely it seems Arthur was the 8th person to die. And so it begins and so it ends. Or does it? Outside of the covenant the number 8 is most heavily associated with? Resurrection. Really it's 7 and 1, they did funky things with numbers back them. Beric Dondarrion, if you include the time he was actually born was born and reborn 7 times, the 8th time he resurrected Cat.

 

"The number 8 in the Bible represents a new beginning, meaning a new order or creation, and man's true 'born again' event when he is resurrected from the dead into eternal life."

 

Why 8? Well this is why and if you understand all of it good for you, I sort of do, but you can skip it and just go 8 and Resurrection, and start reading after the next two quotes.

 

"Like the Old Testament Passover lamb, Jesus was selected as the Lamb to take away man's sins on the Hebrew day of Nisan 10 (April 1, 30 A.D. - John 12: 28 - 29). He was crucified on Nisan 14 (Wednesday, April 5 in 30 A.D.). His resurrection occurred, exactly as he stated, three days and three nights after he was buried, which was at the end of the weekly Sabbath day that fell on Nisan 17 (seventeen symbolizes victory). Nisan 17 was also the eighth day, counting inclusively, from the time Christ was selected as man's sacrificial Lamb. All this bears record of Jesus' perfect sacrifice and His complete victory over death."

 

"Jesus showed himself alive EIGHT times after his resurrection from the dead. His first appearance alive was to Mary Magdalene (Mark 16:9 - 11). He then showed himself to two disciples traveling to Emmaus (Luke 24). Next, he appeared to all the disciples except Thomas (John 20:19 - 24) then a week later to all them when Thomas was present (John 20:26 - 29). According to the apostle Paul, Christ also was seen by 500 believers at one time (1Corinthians 15:4 - 7). Jesus also met his disciples at the appointed place in Galilee (Matthew 28:16 - 17) and on Galilee's shores (John 21:1 - 24). His final meeting was on the Mount of Olives, where he gave his followers instructions before ascending to heaven (Acts 1)."

 

"Eight is the number of Jesus, whose name in the Greek adds up to 888."

 

Did you understand any of that? I really didn't myself, but 8 and Resurrection, good enough.

 

The Night's Watch. Do any of you know why they are called a Watch? It is a form of time keeping still used today. The 8 watches, 4 during the day and 4 at night, and both begin and end at sunrise and sunset the periods are just inverted. "And so it begins and so it ends." Twilight, that is what that is between the two periods of night and day.

 

What does this all mean? Probably nothing, but I did manage to associate, Life, Death, Rebirth, Light, Alpha and Omega, Joy, Covenant, Night Watch, the Wheel, Sunrise, Sunset, A guy called the Sword of the Morning with his sword Dawn,(Remember Dawn = rebirth and new beginnings and light) Arthur also associated heavily with Jesus and rebirth, King Arthur (He is suppose to come again or something, or his magic sword is.... ohhhhhhh) with the number 8 based off the 8 cairns, of the 8th person to die. Hey look three eights, the Jesus number.

 

Is it significant? Who knows, but I didn't have anything to do and I saw a number. This took me less than an hour. However I did find certain things interesting like the whole Joy thing, the rainbow, light, rebirth. Had no idea an hour ago 8 had so much meaning, I was like 8 ball, pool, oh and look Jesus.

 

Just a heads up I am not religious at all, blame google, and typing "8 spoke wheel". Oh crap forgot the 8 spoke wheel from the books.

 

http://awoiaf.wester.../House_Waynwood

 

Apparently Dany payed them a visit.

[Nozlym]

What do skittles have to do with this? I don't know but I am googling like a mad man.

 

this made me laugh.

 

this whole post is one of my all time favourite posts on this website, well done lol