A Luke Skywalker situation

[wolfmaid7]

1. The problem here is that according to what has been revealed thus far in the text, Lyanna and Robert were in the same place only at the ToH in 281AC. It is unknown whether Stannis was present as well. Even if he was, it is impossible for Jon's conception to have taken place at the tourney based on the timeline established in the books as well as what Martin has said in relation to Jon's window of birth.

2. I don't think that Jon not knowing Rhaegar would be any sort of emotional obstacle. There are people at the Wall who could fill him in on events leading up to, and during, the rebellion. It is not inconceivable, for reasons mentioned in my previous post, that Jon could end up viewing Rhaegar as the 'bad guy' and thus harbour some resentment.

I think that the Luke Skywalker statement is sometimes taken too far. I don't believe for a second that Martin is just ripping off this plot point from Star Wars and thus there does not need to be an exact parallel i.e. there must be a DV role therefore Jon's father is still alive, Jon must have a twin sister etc. There are some similarities as I already pointed out and that is as far as it goes, imo.

Yet according to your breakdown you were able to find exact parallels no? Or who is to say what you brought up are those parallels alone or at all.

One note about the timeline,i think it's safe to say that the timelines are a bit screwy and should be taken in context of events and notably "the seasons" which are very important.For instance.

"The old men called this weather spirit summer, and said it meant the season was giving up its

ghosts at last. After this the cold would come, they warned, and a long summer always meant a

long winter. This summer had lasted ten years. Jon had been a babe in arms when it began."

So unless my math is wrong...Jon would have been like what 4-5yrs old and yet he calls himself a babe in arms?Put that in the context of Dany the person who Jon preceded by 8-9 months(Per GRRM's SSM) who was born during a brief Summer storm.

The Stannis angle is a new theory for me and it doesn't work,but with what Cat says,Jon says and the Weather which isn't just the above mentioned.Dates might be a bit off.

[Faceless Man Friday]

A Bit of Luke Skywalker? If ASOIAF was Star Wars. Darth Vadar would be Mance Rayder who would also be Rhaegar and Jon's Father. Princess Dany would not be Rhaegar's sister but his daughter and Jon's twin separated at birth. Tyrion would be Han Solo and marry Princess Danny. Or maybe Bran is Han Solo because Hodor could be a Wookiee?

[UtherSnow]

Well this can mean a host of things,but in a nutshell.

1. Luke twin sister lost their mother while she gave birth to them.

2. Luke was raised with his uncle and aunt

3. Went off to become part of a noble order (Jedi)

4.But wait, father turned out to be alive and shady as hell

5.Father achieves redemption by saving son from fate.

No Ben Kenobi? Isn't it Ben who realises there's more to Luke? Then begins to teach Luke before Yoda takes up the advanced lessons.

Only 'shady as hell'? That's made Darth Vader more like Littlefinger.

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

It has to be Jaime, doesn't it? He's the only major character who's lost his sword hand.

Or maybe reading "a bit of a Luke Skywalker situation" as "an exact parallel of the history of Luke Skywalker and his father" is over-interpreting it just a tiny little bit.

Jamie and Aerys fits this better i actually laughed when i read it except maybe Jamie actually killed his father and later lost his hand

[Joe Pine]

Boy grows up with foster family, his sister's a princess and his dad is the ultimate bad guy.

all that just for the Greyjoys? Balon must be alive then...

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

the star wars thing really has me thinking twins were separated

[wolfmaid7]

No Ben Kenobi? Isn't it Ben who realises there's more to Luke? Then begins to teach Luke before Yoda takes up the advanced lessons.

Only 'shady as hell'? That's made Darth Vader more like Littlefinger.

Well if we take in the ghastly Episode 3 "Revenge of the Sith" then it was Ben who took Anakin to Tatooine and so all things considered after he knew of the twins and was just waiting.

Vader was kind of shady because he knew he had a child,he knew Anakin was his.He just didn't know he had twins until he gleaned that from Anakin.

[wolfmaid7]

the star wars thing really has me thinking twins were separated

If we look at it in totality and i'm not saying this is the case here.The WTF moments in Star wars were:

1. Anakin was Vader's son and

2. Leia was his twin.

[Northbound3.0]

Add another person as potentially being Jon's daddy. Ned, Rhaegar, Brandon, Aerys, Mance, Benjen, Reed, Robert and now Stannis. Seriously, wtf is happening.

Edit: Did I god damn, miss anyone?

[Kingmonkey]

Originally posted in R+L=J v105:

Deep in his coma, Jon dreamt of himself in a vast, cavernous hall, ancient and long-abandoned. He looked down, and in his hand he saw a sword aflame, burning with an icy blue light, flickering strangely in the chill wind. A dark figure stepped out from the shadows, his own sword a mirror of the one Jon held, fiery red, like a dragon's breath, in the place of Jon's blue ice. Jon retreated back, uncertain as the man advanced, the light from both blades glimmering dully off his black armour.

Before Jon could think, the man was upon him. Instinctively, Jon raised his own blade to block, then countered with a slash of his own, easily parried. I do not know this man, Jon thought. Why does he pursue me? Some old foe of Lord Eddard? He did not know why the thought came to him so quickly, but he sensed a truth in it.

The man in black armour advanced on him, his blows powerful and confident. It was all Jon could to to block, block, block. His arms were tiring quickly, and he realised this implacable swordsman was too strong for him. He stepped back, seeking space, and back again, onto a narrow ledge, but still the swordsman came on, slashing and thrusting until Jon stumbled and fell. Holding his red flaming blade towards Jon, the man spoke in a chill voice "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. Don't let yourself be killed, as Eddard Stark did."

Jon thought of his father; of Eddard Stark, the man who had loved him and treated him as almost a true son, when other bastards were so oft an afterthought. He could almost see them, ghostly figures watching the battle. There Ned, there his half brothers, Rickon and Bran, and Robb who had been as close to him as any full brother could be. There his sisters Sansa, and poor lost Arya, so fierce and brave. Behind Arya, another, older but so alike, a crown of blue winter roses upon her brow. Lyanna, he thought, though he had never seen her in life. Eddard's sister. He looked back at the man in armour, and saw then upon his breastplate, picked out in rubies, a three-headed dragon. And he understood.

A fury filled him, and lent strength by his rage, he raised himself and slashed again and again, raining fierce blows on the man in front of him. Rhaegar, who had kidnapped and raped his father's sister, who had started the rebellion and died at King Robert's hand at the Trident; this was the man he faced. He pressed forwards, his ice-blue blade crashing again and again against Rhaegar's red. Breaking past the man's guard he lay a crushing blow on the black pauldron on his foe's shoulder, bringing forth sparks and a cry of pain that echoed in the black helmet.

Now the battle turned. Driven by the pain of his blow, his foe pressed the attack, striking again and again 'til Jon felt he could hold the blade no longer. He is a far better swordsman than I Jon realised, and fear gripped his body like an icy blast. Suddenly a burning pain lanced through his arm, and he saw his blade of icy light tumble into the darkness below the ledge, and looked in disbelief of the stump of his arm, his hand severed at the wrist.

"Don't make me kill you, " Rhaegar told him, his voice rich and mocking. Jon tried to scramble back, further along the ledge, hoping desperately for a few more feet of space to put between himself and the dragon prince. Yet Rhaegar did not attack; instead, he reached out his hand, as if to offer Jon aid. "Jon, you do not yet realise your importance. The dragon needs three heads. Join me! Together we can end these conflicts that endanger the seven kingdoms, and turn back the white walkers."

For a moment, Jon did not know what to say, could not understand what was being offered to him. But then he remembered Eddard as well, and thought of Lyanna, his long-dead aunt. I'll never join you, Rhaegar. Rhaegar took a step forwards. "Eddard never told you what was truly behind the rebellion, Jon. He never told you what happened to Lyanna."

"He told me enough. He told me of the tower of Joy. My father was there. He slew your knights, but too late."

Rhaegar shook his head, slowly, sadly. "No, Jon. I am your father. Search your feelings and 105 threads on westeros.org, you know it to be true!"

[Lost Melnibonean]

So I was reading that the actor Alfie Allen had asked GRRM on who Jon's real parents are and he is quoted as saying "...and he told me. I can't say who, but I can tell you that it involves a bit of a Luke Skywalker situation." Though this is statement is just hearsay, I find it very intriguing if true. So who is the Darth Vader of GOT? Well there is one main character that we don't know too much about his past as he has never had a POV chapter, has definitely turned to the dark side(black magic),yields a shiny(light saberish?)sword, and has demonstrated at least some favor towards Jon. Could Stannis be Jon's father? Could R +L =J be replaced with S+L =J? Perhaps Stannis in his past wasn't as rigid and hard up but had some moments of vulnerability and passion in his affair with Lyanna Stark. Perhaps Lyanna went off with Rhaegar to save Stannis from getting caught by his brother Robert. Melisandre sees Stannis as the Azor Ahai...perhaps she isn't so far off with it really being the offspring of Stannis. Anyways, I can't think of a more Luke Skywalker moment than when Jon would realize Stannis is his father.

Stannis ain't Dahrt Vader. Tywin is. Clearly then, Tywin is Jon's father and Joanna died of a broken heart. Glad we were able to put that silly R+L=J theory to rest.

[Morgul-Blade]

If Tywin isn't Darth Vader, nobody is. I don't remember the exact quote, but it's from a Cersei chapter, where she remembers Tywin giving some Lord a look after hearing said Lord make a jape at Tywin's expense. The look alone shamed this Lord into leaving. Clearly, Tywin used the FORCE

[Good Guy Garlan]

Jamie and Aerys fits this better i actually laughed when i read it except maybe Jamie actually killed his father and later lost his hand

It really does fit Jaime better, even down to the twincest

[Lost Melnibonean]

If Tywin isn't Darth Vader, nobody is. I don't remember the exact quote, but it's from a Cersei chapter, where she remembers Tywin giving some Lord a look after hearing said Lord make a jape at Tywin's expense. The look alone shamed this Lord into leaving. Clearly, Tywin used the FORCE

Oh shit... So Dany really is Jon's twin...

"That boy is our last hope."

"No, there is another..."

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

There is no one in this world, alive or dead, that I hate more than Alfie Allen right now.

This thread won't stop before it hits 10 pages.

[Lord Lannister]

There is no one in this world, alive or dead, that I hate more than Alfie Allen right now.

This thread won't stop before it hits 10 pages.

Don't worry, by the time it does someone will have started another one.

[EastTymor]

Ilyn Payne is Rhaegar.

"You killed my father!

"No Jon..."

Brilliant.

[Morgul-Blade]

In all seriousness, if there is a "Luke Skywalker situation" as GRRM indicated, then we face some problems considering how literally it was meant. Luke is a Skywalker and (at the time, aspiring) Jedi Knight, and he thought he was the last of both. Jon thought he was the last "Stark" but perhaps he could be the "last" Targaryen - with Dany being his twin? sister... I just don't see the twin part. Now, Rhaegar is viewed as a bad guy by many, and if he turns out to be Jon's father, that would seem to mimic Luke being Vader's son. At first, I'm sure Jon would be unhappy with that knowledge; Rhaegar supposedly kidnapped and raped his beloved aunt, and all the while he has thought his father was the honorable Eddard. Now, Dany could possibly be Jon's twin, but as I said before, it seems unlikely. We are told that (f)Aegon was taken from Elia to protect him, but why not Rhaenys?

Jon is a Jedi.

[Drekinn]

Jon is nothing like Luke. Jon is fated to be special, Luke wasn't. Vader was the one who brought balance to the Force. Both are orphaned/adopted, a trait shared by countless fiction protagonists, so again nothing special.

[Sword of the Morgan]

Jon and Meera are twins seperated at birth like Luke and Leia.

That would be cool.