Defend Cersei as best you can

[chuck norris 42]

My paper thin defence of Cersei is as follows

Cersei was shown from a very young age the world is not fair, Women have no rights. Her father taught her that you have to Oppress people or they will take advantage of you.

She is selfish and makes plans to destroy people, however how else should she act given that she is stupid and thinks everyone that does not fawn over her is making plans to destroy her.

I hated her for how she treated Sansa but then I realised that she has a warped perspective.

Cersei's view would have been that Sansa was a younger and dumber version of Cersei herself which means to her warped view Sansa was a large threat.

[Smashing Praise]

Cersei is probably my favorite female in the series. That being said, I sympathize with her greatly. Nothing Cersei desires is "right" in the world. Everything Cersei does is to an attempt to circumvent this, and I think if she's pursuing what she is deprived of, it isn't so bad.

Cersei cannot have any real power because she is a woman. Thus, she uses her political knowledge and her feminine charm to get her way.

Cersei is in love with her twin, but this is unnatural. So she has a secret affair with him, because there is nothing else she could do from the moment of her birth. What makes it worse is that the preceding royalty considered it customary to marry brother to sister.

Cersei is married to a man she hates out of the wishes of her father. Because of her entrapment, she refuses to have his children and instead has another man's.

Cersei's children are bastards of incest, but she still loves them as a mother should. She may do unsavory things to see that they succeed in life, but this is a mother's lot in life. Admittedly, this one actually is Cersei's fault, but society did completely deny her children with the one she loves.

As the widow of a dead king, Cersei is quickly becoming irrelevant. While it may seem crazy to lash out at people like the Tyrells as she does, she is only trying to protect herself and her children.

I don't understand why everyone hates Cersei so much. She's a pretty sympathetic character. Admittedly, I did like her more pre-Feast when she wasn't as crazy and didn't have that dumb prophecy, but such is.

[Amae Koromo]

Well...

She is pretty, she loves her kids and...

... uh ... well... she is not as evil as Gregor, I think... and...

...she is also probably smarter than Hodor.

[Snowmelter]

Cersei is a sociopath. There is no defending that. In a compassionate society she would be fettered for life. In Westerosi society, she should be put down like a rabid dog. Although, Jamie did just that to the last rabid dog to sit upon the Iron Throne and everyone still hates him for it. Hmmm.....

[Myrish swan]

Heh, somehow I get the feeling that this thread will end up offending more people than a Hitler defense thread would. What's more, I bet that by 11 pm tomorrow this thread will have descended into a Cersei bashing thread, with people repeating how horrible, stupid, and bitchy Cersei is, and sadistically fantasizing about different ways she might die. (Or else the thread will get like, five responses, then quickly did out.) Since GRRM hates this character even more than fans do, I'd say that its safe to say that her downfall will be slow, hideous, and humiliating (and, as always, the humiliation will have a sexual component.)

Some defenses of Cersei:

1. We are manipulated wildly from the first book (beginning with the direwolf scene) to hate her.

While she does want power, how is that evil in itself? Tyrion, beloved of all, wants power just as much. Also, characters like Tywin, Varys, and Littlefinger want power just as much, but they are represented with some respect, admiration, and even identification on the part of the author. I guess woman + power= evil, since there is not a single female character in these books who desires power who is presented with anything but contempt and disgust.

2. She loves her children, and they are the one thing she loves more than power.

3. She loved Jaime, as much as he loved her. But she does love power more than him.

4. She's had that scary curse hanging over her head for her entire life.

5. Contrary to the claims of many, she is not a bad mother. Joffrey would have turned out to be a sociopath regardless; the boy clearly had anti-social personality disorder. His supposed father's neglect seems to have inspired his cruelty more than his mother's misguided attentions every did.

6. She was hit and raped by her husband; both of these things were legal in her society.

7. While not "evil" like the physical and sexual abuse he forced on her, King Bob's blatant, thoughtless cheating with hundreds of women probably was not easy for a proud woman like Cersei to accept.

8. Was the incest with her brother really "evil?" I'd argue that it was sick, sad, and gross, but I'm not sure I'd define it as evil. And since her husband cheated on her with everyone, I can't blame her one bit for cuckholding him.

9.Since he did beat and rape her, it can be argued whether Cersei's murder of her husband was, in fact, an evil act, or a cruel but not unjustifiable one. Some (though not me personally) might even put in an argument for battered woman syndrome, where the victim unconsciously kills/ attacks her victimizer.

10. Her killing of the direwolves and mikah: inexcusable, but in her mind probably necessary, due to the fact that they'd hurt or just humiliated her son, the crowned prince.

11.Trying to get Tyrion executed for Joffrey's murder-- for once, totally justified. She may be wrong, but she believes Tyrion killed her son. Furthermore, all evidence does point to Tyrion. And Tyrion's own behavior towards Tommen earlier might indicate to Cersei that Tyrion is capable of murdering his own nephew.

12. Seducing Kettlebacks, Lancel, possibly moonboy-- not evil, unless you are Jaime, and you are jealous. The things she is trying to get them to do in return for the seduction may be evil, but the seductions themselves are just an example of a woman getting what she wants by whatever means necessary.

13. Finally, her plans for Margery-- she thinks she's protecting her kids from Maggie's prophecy. In fact, a lot of the evil Cersei does is to protect her kids.

Oh well, everyone clearly hates the woman regardless, and no doubt things will end horribly for her.

[The Marquis de Leech]

OK, here goes:

The Incest.

This is entirely consensual. Cersei has genuine feelings for he twin, but is constrained by social norms: no other character in the series finds their love life so explicitly unspeakable. Consider, for example, Jon Snow, a character who frets endlessly about breaking vows with Ygritte. Now consider Jon's situation if (1) He had been sent to the Wall involuntarily, (2) He had developed an intense relationship with Ygritte prior to being sent to the Wall, and (3) the breaking of the Night Watch's celibacy vow were punishable by death. Jon would no doubt have been regarded as a tragic figure by the readership. Cersei, on the other hand, who genuinely is in that sort of situation is merely regarded as evil and icky.

The Treason.

Cersei never asked to be married to Robert. It was a forced and loveless arrangement with a man who was a drunk and frequently violent baffoon. In modern eyes it would have been classed as rape, but there was nothing Cersei could have done about it. With her husband soon to find out about the incest (with the resulting consequences for her children), it literally became a case of her children's lives set against that of her abusive pig of a husband, and if treason in self-defence is a crime then Ned Stark is just as guilty in rebelling against Aerys. Moreover, you could mount a solid argument that it was Robert's own choice to drink the wine: to some extent he brought about his own downfall.

The hatred of Tyrion.

Yes, there is the valonquar prophecy, but that is so hamfisted that I prefer not to use it. Tyrion was associated with the death of Cersei's mother, which combined with the hatred-of-weakness drilled into her by her father, would have naturally affected the young Cersei's view of Tyrion. Later on, of course, Tyrion's animosity with Joffrey is well-known, and Tyrion further threatens to beat and rape Tommen. Then her beloved eldest son dies before her very eyes, and Tyrion has all the means and motivation to pull it off.

And Moonboy for all I know.

Cersei uses the only tools available to her in the heavily patriarchal Westerosi political set-up. And Robert is now dead, so she is no longer "cheating", except on

Jaime, and as everybody knows, Cersei/Jaime is evil and icky anyway. Plus there is a heavy double standard at work: Robert, Theon, and Tyrion can sleep around to their heart's content, but god forbid a woman have multiple sexual partners.

Political incompetence.

Lots of characters are politically incompetent (Ned!), but few attract the hatred that Cersei does.

[The faceless others]

She is looked down in the westeros society because she got tits, and a vagina. This is the reason she uses these to achieve her goals. She wants power in order to protect herself and her children, because this is the only solution she knows. If you have a prophecy hanging on your head about your doom, wouldn't you be a bit paranoid? She might be a sick individual, but aren't several of the other characters the same, LittleFingers for one, practically the same personality, but different sex. A woman in the society with male dominance needs to be more ruthless, more cunning (which I don't think she possesses much) and at least stronger. In all aspects, Cersei is a very remarkable woman.

[Snowmelter]

The Incest: Gross. In human society all the way back to prehistory there has been a taboo against this sort of thing. Frack the Targaryens, they were clearly nut jobs. Incest is just plain wrong. If you disagree, I suggest you bring it up with your siblings.

The Treason: Ok, I buy into the whole "Cersei was abused" idea. She clearly was. However, she did plenty of abusing right back. There were no "victims" in this scenario. Robert and Cersei used and abused and disrespected each other. Since Robert was the male in the equation, I suppose the onus falls upon him. Fucking you brother and substituting your bastard children for trueborn children who are heirs to the Iron Throne is clearly a premeditated act of treason. If there is a rational argument against this I will gladly listen.

The Hatred of Tyrion: I have to agree with everything you wrote here.

And Moonboy for All I Know: I don't think ASoIaF ever really discusses the issue of womens' infidelity. It seems as if bastards aren't in the offing then no one really cares. People make a big deal about Robert's whoring. I rarely see anyone bitching about Cersei fucking her brother and her cousin and who knows how many other people at the same time. All in the name of sleeping her way to the top. I must respect that level of depraved dedication, lol.

Political Incompetence: Of the 100 Reasons to Hate Cersei, this comes in a distinct 52nd.

[chuck norris 42]

The Incest: Gross. In human society all the way back to prehistory there has been a taboo against this sort of thing. Frack the Targaryens, they were clearly nut jobs. Incest is just plain wrong. If you disagree, I suggest you bring it up with your siblings.

I would avoid someone that had sex with the relatives like I avoid people that eat excrement, Eating excrement is just plain wrong, However I am talking about what is moral as opposed to what is socially acceptable.

[Myrish swan]

The Incest: Gross. In human society all the way back to prehistory there has been a taboo against this sort of thing. Frack the Targaryens, they were clearly nut jobs. Incest is just plain wrong. If you disagree, I suggest you bring it up with your siblings.

The Treason: Ok, I buy into the whole "Cersei was abused" idea. She clearly was. However, she did plenty of abusing right back. There were no "victims" in this scenario. Robert and Cersei used and abused and disrespected each other. Since Robert was the male in the equation, I suppose the onus falls upon him. Fucking you brother and substituting your bastard children for trueborn children who are heirs to the Iron Throne is clearly a premeditated act of treason. If there is a rational argument against this I will gladly listen.

The Hatred of Tyrion: I have to agree with everything you wrote here.

And Moonboy for All I Know: I don't think ASoIaF ever really discusses the issue of womens' infidelity. It seems as if bastards aren't in the offing then no one really cares. People make a big deal about Robert's whoring. I rarely see anyone bitching about Cersei fucking her brother and her cousin and who knows how many other people at the same time. All in the name of sleeping her way to the top. I must respect that level of depraved dedication, lol.

Political Incompetence: Of the 100 Reasons to Hate Cersei, this comes in a distinct 52nd.

How the heck would you know about taboos in prehistory? Whatever.

I think it's funny how you imply that someone saying brother/ sister incest is not necessarily evil wants to "bring it up with their siblings," or something. No one ever claimed that the consensual brother sister incest featured between Cersei and Jaime in a Game of Thrones is positive, good, or anything like that. It is clearly sick, disturbed, and as you said, gross.

However, there is a difference between something being sick and distasteful to observers and something that is clearly evil, and that makes those participating in it evil by association. Jaime and Cersei are two related adults who chose to sleep with each other. In this situation, no one is being forced, abused, or anything like that. However, since Jaime and Cersei are siblings, its obviously pretty darn sick. Still, this incest does not make either Cersei or Jaime evil in and of itself. Actually, I think it makes them pretty sad and screwed up more than anything.

Also funny: your claim that "there were no victims in this scenario." Hell yes, there were. Cersei may have been mean to Robert, but she never RAPED him. Furthermore, she never beat him, or hit him so hard he fell over and his entire face was bruised the next day. I do recall her throwing her whineskin at him once, however, seeing as she was confronting him about raping her at that point, and he claimed that it was not his fault at all since he was drunk, I really cannot completly blame Cersei for doing so.

Oh, and finally there's this: "Fucking you brother and substituting your bastard children for trueborn children who are heirs to the Iron Throne is clearly a premeditated act of treason. If there is a rational argument against this I will gladly listen."

Okay, I'd rationally argue that while these acts are "treason" in the world of Westeros, it does not necessarily make them "evil" in our world. The refusal to think things out for oneself, and instead rely soley on gut reactions and archaic systems of morality shows lazy thinking. You do this here and with the incest.

My rational arguments in defense of Cersei here:

First, Robert was cheating on her and siring numerous bastards of his own; Cersei merely gave as good as she got. Secondly, she had loved Jaime all of her life-- sick and screwed up though this is, the love itself was real. Thirdly, though it was her duty as queen to give King Robert children, Cersei could not (with good reason) bear having his child inside her. Robert raped, hit, and cheated on Cersei. She could barely bare to look at him; it would be torture for her to have children of her own body bearing his face. Finally, Cersei genuinely thought Jaime was a better man than Robert, and would make better children.

All of these arguments do not make Cersei's actions in regards to passing off Jaime's kids as Robert's right. However, I'd argue that, under the circumstances, these actions do not make Cersei evil either.

Finally, as for your claim that "no one makes a big deal about Cersei sleeping around"-- total B.S. People make a HUGE deal about Cersei sleeping around; they use it both to belittle her (as you do here) and to prove that she's an evil sociopath who never loved Jaime. And as for her "sleeping her way to the top," hardly. She uses sex when she has no other way of getting what she wants, but it is by no means her only weapon.

[Axon]

Cersei is easy to defend. She's smart, ambitious, and ruthless. Her father is well-regarded for these traits; she's considered a psychotic mega-bitch. Hmmm.

[Paternalisme]

The problem with Cersei is that we don't get her POV in AGOT, where she is successful and efficient, it's only AFTER she get the power that she begins to screw things up (like LF said (more or less) : "she wants power but she doesn't know what to do with it").

My idea is that if we had had Cersei chapters in AGOT she would be much more popular.

[Tb0ne]

5. Contrary to the claims of many, she is not a bad mother. Joffrey would have turned out to be a sociopath regardless; the boy clearly had anti-social personality disorder. His supposed father's neglect seems to have inspired his cruelty more than his mother's misguided attentions every did.

With the possible exception of Edric Storm all of Roberts children were neglected and none of them ended up becoming sociopaths.

Edric Storm - Proud but kind to others.

Gendry - Stubborn, brave, and willing to sacrifice his life in service of the realm's smallfolk (when he joins the Brotherhood he's told he'll likely die).

Mya Stone - Serves the Eyrie, served Catelyn with patience and bravely and is a good friend to Sansa.

In the chapter when Tyrion first hears about the Red Wedding Cersei says that Robert once tried to punish Joffrey for torturing/mutilating/killing a cat. Cersei clearly knew Joffrey was guilty but threatened to kill Robert in his sleep if he did anything to punish the child. If this was a common pattern then it would suggest that Cersei's refusal to allow Robert to punish Joffrey for acts of cruelty did just as much if not more to create the monster that Joffrey was.

[Axon]

Doesn't incest have an effect on madness? Joffrey was as crazy as Aerys it seemed.

[RSasoiaf]

I just think to many people place a lot of guilt on the incest stuff. But you are just reacting to a kind of inner phobia. There´s really no guilt here, neither from Cersei or Jaime. Simply because they did not deliberately fell in love with each other. It´s not something you wake up one morning and decide "Ei! my sister is dead gorgeous! i would really like to bang her". Nop....sorry, love doesnt work like that....sometimes i wish it did! We are prone to the craziest choices when love comes into play.

Also, we know that they were fairly lacking in familly love. So it´s easy to supose they were both unbalanced from the start. Still, that does not make them guilty, that actually makes them the victims.

If Jaime and Cersei are anything regarding incest, they are victims and not culprits. You can then make a whole casestudy on their background and whatever was messed up with them. But as many said, they did no harm to anyone by loving each other and they seemed pretty honest and true about their feellings for the most part of their lives. So we can assume they were really trully in love.

If we leave the whole incest point, then everything else on Cersei´s behaviour can easily be justified by circunstances. The few times she was really evil were pretty much times when it was kill or get killed and she had to do whatever would keep her and her children alive and on power.

We can really discuss if she was a good mother. It seems she would be a bit too much on the side of protective and not letting her children grow for themselves. That seems to be a clear mistake on her mother skills. But then again, thats a very common mistake on mothers. The fact that her relation with Robert was dead from the word go did not help a single bit on this matter, as she knew Robert was not even the father and had no respect for him as a possible father and teacher to the children. I honestly think that had Cersei been married to someone like Ned, she would reveal herself quite different and she would turn a lot better. Also she would let Ned have a lot more impact on Joffreys education. As far as we know, Robert did not try to do that very often and he seems to have been mostly away from all his children.

So i think also on Joffrey, its a bit too much to blame it all on Cersei. As the couple was totally not working and Joffrey already had all the hype of being heir apparent...which can easily get anyone turn to the dark side. The other kids turned out quite alright or seem to be so.

[FatCatOberyn]

The Incest: Gross. In human society all the way back to prehistory there has been a taboo against this sort of thing. Frack the Targaryens, they were clearly nut jobs. Incest is just plain wrong. If you disagree, I suggest you bring it up with your siblings.

I don't understand how incest *can* be wrong. It's like saying that it's wrong to drink wine because you prefer beer.

How do you know what the first Homo Sapiens Sapiens had taboos against? And why do taboos matter. It was a taboo to have a woman on a ship, to have sex before marriage, homosexuality, etc. etc. etc.

Having consensual sex *can't* be wrong.

[Kalbear]

Cersei is as much a sociopath as every single character in Westeros. Which is to say, not at all. Some evidence to the contrary:

She genuinely loves her children.

She does love her brother.

She absolutely adored and looked up to her father.

She holds a very specific grudge towards her younger brother for the death of her mother.

That being said, she does not have a ton of empathy and does not consider it a horrible crime if someone's killed. Even moreso, if it gives her gain.

All Cersei is, is a product of her father. Her father was widely considered the most successful Hand in the history of the realm, simultaneously ruling the realm while an idiotic, crazy king sat the throne and bringing a fallen house back to massive prominence. Her primary failing is simply that she is not as great as he is.

On her POV: the primary reason she's fucked up after her PoV in AFFC (compared to her behavior in AGOT, which was far more subtle and nuanced) is simply that she just had her father and her son die - and as she thinks, both at the hands of the person she fears the most (Tyrion). At the same time she has a bit of her guard down, given that the war is over, her overt enemies are either killed or fleeing, and she has nominal control.

The secondary reason is that unlike Tywin, she never learned how to use power, only how to gain it. She's best when in a position of weakness where others can underestimate her. She's worst when she's in a position of strength and everyone is gunning for her.

I mentioned in another thread how she is no worse than Littlefinger. Here's how she's much better:

The reason she wanted Robert dead was that she wanted power - but this was with the backing of her whole family. And Tywin recognized how horrible a king Robert really was. Robert was an abusing, whoring drunkard who put the kingdom into massive debt. And Cersei's bad for wanting this guy gone? Please.

The reason she wanted Ned dead was because Ned was a threat to her, plain and simple. And openly so. He outright stated to her that he wanted her gone. What is she supposed to do - lie there and take it? Is that what you'd want Ned to do if the positions were reversed? Is that what you'd want Jon to do when he's told to shut up? Is that what you'd want Dany to do? No, she took care of the problem with the tools available to her. That's not sociopathy - that's statesmanship.

Her killing of Robert's bastards was partially an ego thing, I know. But it was also a power issue, and it was exactly as good (or bad) as Roberts' wanting Dany dead. Each of his bastards were a direct threat to the power of her children. If Jon Arryn could find them, others could too. The only way to deal with it permanently is to kill them. That's ruthless, but no more so than Ned beheading Nights Watchmen for deserters.

Her biggest crime to me that I can't reasonably justify is her allowing Joffrey to be so cruel and turning a blind eye to him. At the same time, I understand it; he is her firstborn son. It's very natural to do that sort of thing as a parent. It doesn't make it a good thing, but it certainly makes it a human one.

[MountainThatRides]

She's a woman, and she fights with what weapons she is able. As Jon Snow says, women get the arms but not the swords. Despite her unhinged behavior, her primary motivating factor is the love she bears for her children. I'd say that outweighs the other driving forces in her mind, even her ambition. Deep down at her core, I think she acts purely out of fear; she knows that she has put herself and her children in a very precarious situation (because they are bastards born of incest). She wants someone to protect her, and this isn't because she is a "weak female" or any such nonsense. It's simply because she's lonely and has issues that aren't gender exclusive in any way.

Her father uses her life to further his political goals, a truth that has always rankled her; she was made to wed Robert to further ingratiate him to the Lannisters (and smooth over the doubts about their loyalty). She lost her mother when she was young, which, while clearly not uncommon in Westeros, still has a profound effect: her only parental role model thereafter was her father. There's an eventual disconnect where we can't blame the parents anymore and the child must accept responsibility for their actions, but still -- Lord Tywin was many things, but I doubt he was loving or warm, or even supportive, particularly after Joanna's death.

She looks to Jaime for comfort and security, and whispers that he's the only one she's ever loved, but we know that isn't true. Cersei desperately wanted to wed Rhaegar; he was her idea of the perfect man. Aerys chose Elia of Dorne over Cersei to spurn Tywin, and once again the politics of men come at the cost of her emotions. Cersei's love of Jaime is little more than an outward manifestation of her hubris; the minute they grow apart, both in physical appearance and attitude, her desire for him begins to fade.

She had to endure marriage to Robert Baratheon. Don't get me wrong, I love Robert and think he's a far more likable character than Cersei, but he treated her like dung. He forced himself on her, beat her and womanized incessantly. Because he was the king he was able to get away with this behavior, but it doesn't make it right. Even in the culture of Westeros, Robert's behavior is a source of merriment to those who wish humiliation on Cersei because of her pride. Her instability grows after losing a child, which, to me, is understandable. It's very difficult for a parent to bury a child, and the grieving process is complicated; Cersei's was made worse by extreme paranoia and fear for the lives of her remaining children.

A lot of the despicable things that have happened under Cersei's watch, curiously enough, were not her wish but the result of impetuous men influenced by her; Jaime throwing Bran out of the window, for instance, or Joffrey giving Ned Stark the ol' thumbs down.

[LadySansa]

I would be pretty upset if Cersei's death involves anything sexual. I'd rather see her just get straight up murdered. I love Cersei's character and enjoy reading her chapters. I do think she gets judged much more harshly by board members (and probably lots of other readers) because she is a woman. That being said, she is a major major bitch. I get that she does everything for reasons that make sense to her and to protect her children but she is still a major bitch. Likely as a result of her upbringing, Tywin was a hard father to have. I also really loved Tywin's character and was sad to see him go before his time and in such an unfitting manner. I think incest is one of the more disgusting things in life but to each his own. I completely understand why Cersei hated and killed Robert and would have done the same, without all the brother and cousin fucking. I wonder how it would have been if Cersei did marry Ned. Would she have had Ned's biological children?

[RSasoiaf]

Well,

About Brann, i have no doubts Cersei wanted him dead. But that´s basically because she had no other chance. At the exact they realize Brann knows about them, it´s wither kill or get killed. Only other option would have been to kill Robert as soon as possible....and Brann was a lot easier and safer. If it was not for Litlefinger´s plot, Brann´s acident could not have been linked so easily to the Lannisters.

Also, regarding Brann....it seems to me LitleFinger was far worst. Simply because Brann was not a threat to him and we have reasons to believe he was the one behind the second attempt on the childrens life....and just for the soul purpose of starting a political power strugle....now thats a lot more like Hitler mind you.....and makes Cersei look like an angel.

Also, regarding most of the stuff Cersei does after loosing so much.....i seem to remember people considering some of Cat´s choices a bit risky also after she almost lost Brann. Now imagine if he was really dead!!! But it just fits! Loosing a children is something really traumatic...specially for a mother. And loosing a father is usually also very traumatic for a woman. It´s really no surprise and it should be expected that Cersei could need some time to settle and start thinking clear again. Of course we knoe she just doesnt have that time and has to jump into the game of thrones as best as she can....which is not really much at the moment.

But my point is, like Cersei, Cat was not pulling the wisest possible moves after her son became under threat. So why are we so harsh on Cersei?

Like others have pointed out, she didnt really want Ned´s death. It´s quite telling that she does seem to respect him a bit and i think she was honest when she gave him the choice of sidding with her and rulling with her. I think she was really thinking Nedd would be a good ruller, he would respect her and be a good influence to Joffrey. We see that despite being affraid of Tyrion, she doesnt seem to want him dead when he is named Hand. She doesnt seem to plot that much against him either. Its quite obvious she doesnt trust or like him but she seems to accept that he is there because their father wants it and he may be the best possible solution.

Nop, she is defenetely not a sociopath.

Even regarding Brann, she is scared about him but once he survives, she apparently doesnt make any more attempts to kill him. So it seems enough was enough for her. This is from the scene were she wants to kill him because she fears he may still talk, but Jaime easilly talks her out from that plan.