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(Book Spoilers) The Hound


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59 replies to this topic

#21 Ser Dermett Corbray

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:34 AM

I think the Hound's finest (or not so finest) hours are to come. Him drunkenly approaching Sansa in during the Battle of Blackwater, "saving" Arya far off down the line. It's a shame they're cutting so much but I think they'll address it later.

#22 Lannes

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:11 AM

I just don't understand why they are not giving him the lines.

The throne room scene is a perfect example. Both the Hound and Ser Dontos could have said their lines and no one in the viewing audience would have been confused or befuddled or anything else. It would have made that scene all the better....

But I guess we had to make room for Ros in the next scene. /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' />

I get it. I know things have to be trimmed, cut, slashed, moved around, revised, etc...

I also get that they are leaving out small, inexpensive things that would make the show richer and better.

#23 Carne

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:25 AM

I just don't understand why they are not giving him the lines.

The throne room scene is a perfect example. Both the Hound and Ser Dontos could have said their lines and no one in the viewing audience would have been confused or befuddled or anything else. It would have made that scene all the better....

But I guess we had to make room for Ros in the next scene. /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' />

I get it. I know things have to be trimmed, cut, slashed, moved around, revised, etc...

I also get that they are leaving out small, inexpensive things that would make the show richer and better.


Actor playing Dontos said they cut his lines in the court room scene /sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />.

As for the Hound, this will please some people I guess:
http://29.media.tumb...e1ryo1_1280.jpg

Edited by Carne, 24 April 2012 - 11:26 AM.


#24 So1ar

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

as good as the show is, it is not without faults. ros having more scenes than sansa and the hound can never be forgiven. and the hound is probably in my top 5 characters for the whole series. a little part of me is going to die inside if he goesn't give this line, "there are no true knights, same as there are no gods. if you can't defend yourself then die and get out of the way of those who can. strong arms and sharp steel rule this world. don't ever believe any different".

so david and dan, if you can't give the hound his awesome lines then die and get out of the way of those who can! well...maybe not die that's a little strong, but stop watering down his rage/madness/badass personality! they amplify the sex, violence, and ros scenes but not the hound? gtfo.

nerd rant over.

Edited by So1ar, 24 April 2012 - 11:30 AM.


#25 Kittykatknits

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:52 AM

Well, I guess it could be possible to "save" some exposition for when he's travelling with Arya? But that would make the drama and the "inexplicability" of his behaviour and the conflicting parts of his character you know, less interesting. But I guess what with TV and all, something needs to be cut, and perhaps his elevation to fan favourite was unintentional? I think a lot of people are pretty good at picking up subtleties in the books and weren't fooled by him being introduced as a villain though. Same as most people seem to think better thoughts of Jaime Lannister of ASOS than Jaime Lannister of AGOT (and Stannis as of ADWD too, in many ways).

On the other hand, him being more submissive to Joffrey hammers home that he actually did not have any authority to act like he did in ACOK with regards to Sansa. He really is just Joffrey's dog and can't do anything about Joffrey being the little arse he is. Lying to save Sansa's posterior twice and attempting to interrupt the beatings were actually him "failing" at his job, so to speak.


I don't think his elevation was that much of a surprise to him. I remember reading an interview with Martin some time ago and he talked about this. He was surprised that Darkstar was not more of a fan favorite considering how popular Sandor was. So who knows? But, as of now, unless something significant happens in the next couple episodes, I do not see how his future arc will make any sense.

Good point about him being so submissive to Joffrey. As a reader, I can see all that. I don't know if that will be obvious to those who only watch the shows though....

@Lyanna & kittykatknits -- Agree with everything that you've mentioned here. Their character dymanics have really disappointed me in the TV series. In the books, much of Sandor's interactions (or interventions on her behalf) with Sansa are sort of subtle, so maybe producers thought they might have a problem conveying that to screen(?) /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' />


It's quite possible. I've noticed that the show this season has focused on character/scenes that have more of an action focus which is why I think the two of them have been waylaid so far. It is also my belief that him see/overhearing Joff with the prostitute will be what stirs Sandor to take a more active role with Sansa. So, he will be strictly a protector for her. My frustration is that this will eliminiate much of the dynamics between the two of them.

#26 Kittykatknits

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:59 AM

ah sandor, how i've missed you in the show...
Kittykatknits the same thing has happened to me. my friends could'nt understand why i love him so much
his interactions with sansa are extinct. i hope we get at least one scene betwwen them before blackwater
and not only he has small screen time, but whenever he speaks , he acts like a concerned uncle of sansa who feels sad about the way she is treated! where is his hatred and his madness??

I agree, maybe they’ll use the beating scene as a “jumping on” point, but I cringe when I think of how they’ll probably wind up butchering Sansa and the Hound’s scene at the Battle of the Blackwater.

Yeah, I’m not sure how I feel about that one. However, I agree it was a little strange.

Edit: spelling



I don't know if this is a comfort or not but I just got back from a workout with a friend of mine. Her and her husband did a marathon viewing of season one over the weekend and caught up to episode four yesterday. We spent the hour going over the show and answering her questions. She picked up on Sandor's feelings for Sansa all the way back in season one and noticed that he put the cloak on her. She also thought he was disgusted during that scene as well. She also thought it was great that Tyrion recognized what she was doing with his "Lady Stark" line. On the downside, she did not quite realize that Sansa was acting and lying about her love for Joff either. So, I guess the producers got some of what they wanted across but not all?

#27 jblair

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:09 PM

He is far too "nice." All of the shots of him involve sympathetic expressions or a tension-filled lack of expression. There is no rage, no fury, no cynicism. During the Tourney he almost seemed meekly grateful for the accolades. Huh? The Bookhound truly doesn't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks of him, and his self-loathing leads to a combative personality, not an overtly submissive one. He's one of the most complicated characters in the books, so I see the writers' issues in fleshing him out. However, love him or hate him I think we can all reasonably agree that he is a complete and utter asshole.

#28 Lyanna Stark

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:10 PM

I don't think his elevation was that much of a surprise to him. I remember reading an interview with Martin some time ago and he talked about this. He was surprised that Darkstar was not more of a fan favorite considering how popular Sandor was. So who knows? But, as of now, unless something significant happens in the next couple episodes, I do not see how his future arc will make any sense.


Darkstar maims a little girl and runs off. Sandor saves Sansa from a riot, saves Arya at the Red Wedding, kills Beric despite being hung over and facing a flaming sword, storms a ship on horseback, cries extremely manly tears and is generally an overall BAMF. And Sandor is not "off the night" either, which helps a lot. /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />


On the downside, she did not quite realize that Sansa was acting and lying about her love for Joff either. So, I guess the producers got some of what they wanted across but not all?


I thought that was fairly well established in the dinner scene with Cersei, Tommen and Myrcella.

Edited by Lyanna Stark, 24 April 2012 - 12:21 PM.


#29 Blangadanger

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:25 PM

Well although he doesn't say anything during Sansa's beating, they do give him and up-close shot looking very anxious and disturbed. I think there is some tension on the screen, but he hasn't truly opened up yet. I think it was clear to most viewers that the Hound wasn't thinking only of his king's safety when Joffrey was showing Sansa the heads. The Hound's got to get away from tv-Joffrey first, who is a controlling, paranoid freak on the show.

#30 Balefont

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:27 PM

The Hound also runs down the butcher's boy. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#31 Lyanna Stark

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:29 PM

The Hound also runs down the butcher's boy. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />


Yep, since the Butcher's boy laid a hand on a prince of the blood, and not out of a sense of fun and enjoyment, unlike his brother's dismemberment of Vargo Hoat, for instance. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#32 Davos55

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:30 PM

He is one of the most amazing characters in the series and has truly been underutilized and butchered so far.

There is still hope, and his best parts are yet to come, but D&D should know that he is a fan favorite and really start cranking out some scenes with him. I was so excited when he actually got lines this episode, and then all he did was tell Joffrey about Tyrion's "gift" for Joffrey. Then a pointless and overly long scene with Ros, which could have been a chance to show the Hound's reactions to the screams inside, but nope..nothing!!

Please, less Ros..more Hound, more Sansa.

Honest question..does anyone care about Ros?

#33 Christina Ceriddwynn

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:33 PM

I could care less about Ros as she takes away from the story.....i appreciate her being background filler but they are making her into an actual character which she is NOT

#34 Woman of War

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 03:35 PM

Balefont, on 24 April 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

The Hound also runs down the butcher's boy.



Yep, since the Butcher's boy laid a hand on a prince of the blood, and not out of a sense of fun and enjoyment, unlike his brother's dismemberment of Vargo Hoat, for instance.


The fact that he coldly followed orders to murder a child is even worse than having done it out of greed or passion. Let's not belittle the fact that Sandor is a cruel killer, there is no need for it, having done truly evil things doesn't make this character less interesting.


#35 turdle

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:29 PM

some others have touched on this, but what really bothers me about the HBO series is that they seem so concerned with adding to the series at the expense of things that already exist. at this point, it seems like the show is at about a 25% - from the book, 75% - not from the book ratio in these last few episodes. and even the things that are from the books, are often multiple scenes slammed together into one. and then you get these long, drawn out scenes that were created just for the show. most of the time they're well done, well acted, but they take away time from everything else. two examples are ros and little finger, and joffrey and ros+other whore. i think both of those scenes were pretty good, but they're so long, and unnecessary and when the show is over you think back to them and you're like, "wow, they could have actually spent time on things that really mattered instead of that." it just reeks of arrogance to me. they spend all this screen time on LF and ros, and then the theon + asha/yara scene is as bare fucking bones as possible. hey HBO, i like asha more than i like ros. more asha, less ros please.

#36 Caro99

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:35 PM

i am hoping that they will make up for the lack of San/San moments in epsiode 5. i may be wrong, but i think that the new pic that's been released with the two of them on the serpentine steps will happen next episode, so we have that and the riot and the BoBW for sure... hopefully they'll be able to put in the roof-top scene and the serpentine steps dialogue as well- at this point i don't even care if they combine them, i just want more scenes with sandor!!!! it's clear he isn't the sandor from the books (though i still picture rory when i read the books) so he'll probably be "nicer" to sansa, but to actually cut his lines just so that he can introduce ross and the other girl, and the fact that they "stole" the san/san interction in order to place tyrion admiring sansa is just wrong! they'll be able to show that failed marriage in season 3, so why can't they leave us san/san fans the moments with these two when they won't be together for the next 3 books!? /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> i was almost crying when sandor put the cloak on sansa this last episode even if he didn't say "enough" only to have tyrion ruining a little bit. i'm happy he rescued sansa from joff, but if they had given us the scene with the hound escorting sansa to the throne room it would all have been much better.
i guess that if by the end they manage to show a nice riot rescue and the BoBW really well done, i might just forgive the producers for white-washing sandor's character... well, maybe not, but i'll be less dissapointed.

Edited by Caro99, 24 April 2012 - 05:36 PM.


#37 turdle

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 05:44 PM

i am hoping that they will make up for the lack of San/San moments in epsiode 5. i may be wrong, but i think that the new pic that's been released with the two of them on the serpentine steps will happen next episode, so we have that and the riot and the BoBW for sure... hopefully they'll be able to put in the roof-top scene and the serpentine steps dialogue as well- at this point i don't even care if they combine them, i just want more scenes with sandor!!!! it's clear he isn't the sandor from the books (though i still picture rory when i read the books) so he'll probably be "nicer" to sansa, but to actually cut his lines just so that he can introduce ross and the other girl, and the fact that they "stole" the san/san interction in order to place tyrion admiring sansa is just wrong! they'll be able to show that failed marriage in season 3, so why can't they leave us san/san fans the moments with these two when they won't be together for the next 3 books!? /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> i was almost crying when sandor put the cloak on sansa this last episode even if he didn't say "enough" only to have tyrion ruining a little bit. i'm happy he rescued sansa from joff, but if they had given us the scene with the hound escorting sansa to the throne room it would all have been much better.
i guess that if by the end they manage to show a nice riot rescue and the BoBW really well done, i might just forgive the producers for white-washing sandor's character... well, maybe not, but i'll be less dissapointed.


at this point, i honestly hope they just skip the sansa and sandor bits. they haven't set them up at all, so don't bother trying to force them in at the last minute. i'd rather they just left that for those who read the books to enjoy, because, as far as i'm concerned, we're past the point where it will be effective. i personally did not get the sense that they were trying to set up tyrion and sansa story line from this episode. to me, it seemed like tyrion was meerly acknowledging the hell that the girl was going through. at least i hope they're not setting that up. that story thread should not be setup in anyway. it should never cross the viewers mind until tywinn says it.

#38 Caro99

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:13 PM

at this point, i honestly hope they just skip the sansa and sandor bits. they haven't set them up at all, so don't bother trying to force them in at the last minute. i'd rather they just left that for those who read the books to enjoy, because, as far as i'm concerned, we're past the point where it will be effective. i personally did not get the sense that they were trying to set up tyrion and sansa story line from this episode. to me, it seemed like tyrion was meerly acknowledging the hell that the girl was going through. at least i hope they're not setting that up. that story thread should not be setup in anyway. it should never cross the viewers mind until tywinn says it.


agree with you on them not showing so early anything regarding the tyrion/sansa future. but i did get that vibe when i watched it- guess it was just peter's lingering gaze that did it for me knowing what happens, but i'll ask some friends what did they think about these two in this scene..
oh but i just couldn't bear it if they skip the whole san/san thing! if they do that maybe it could really just be a hint at the producers asking geroge if any san/san future for the next books is possible and him saying that since there isn't, it's all right for them not to show it this season. and that would just be wrong... still, i read a short interview where david benioff said sophie turner was very nervous about a scene where she had to sing, so i'll keep my fingers crossed that scene is meant to be the one from the BoBW rather than her just singing at the sept before the battle- nice as that moment was.

#39 Kittykatknits

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:42 PM

i am hoping that they will make up for the lack of San/San moments in epsiode 5. i may be wrong, but i think that the new pic that's been released with the two of them on the serpentine steps will happen next episode, so we have that and the riot and the BoBW for sure... hopefully they'll be able to put in the roof-top scene and the serpentine steps dialogue as well- at this point i don't even care if they combine them, i just want more scenes with sandor!!!! it's clear he isn't the sandor from the books (though i still picture rory when i read the books) so he'll probably be "nicer" to sansa, but to actually cut his lines just so that he can introduce ross and the other girl, and the fact that they "stole" the san/san interction in order to place tyrion admiring sansa is just wrong! they'll be able to show that failed marriage in season 3, so why can't they leave us san/san fans the moments with these two when they won't be together for the next 3 books!? /bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' /> i was almost crying when sandor put the cloak on sansa this last episode even if he didn't say "enough" only to have tyrion ruining a little bit. i'm happy he rescued sansa from joff, but if they had given us the scene with the hound escorting sansa to the throne room it would all have been much better.
i guess that if by the end they manage to show a nice riot rescue and the BoBW really well done, i might just forgive the producers for white-washing sandor's character... well, maybe not, but i'll be less dissapointed.


Yep!!

I did think it was nice that Tyrion acknowledged Sansa in that way. I think it could help non-book readers understand Sansa's strengths a bit better. However, in the books it was Sandor who saw her courtesy as armor. He mocked her for it but he was the one that saw the strength. Tyrion dismissed her as being rather empty headed. For me, this was just another example of them making Tyrion the super aweso hero of the series at the expense of others.

#40 atia-

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:46 PM

I've been really disappointed with Sandor so far. Rory is such an excellent actor as shown from his audition and can play the Hound wonderfully, but he's being held back. I doubt that most casual viewers can even name him. They might know him as "dog" at best.

He is one of my favorite characters too, but I don't see how he could be anyone's favorite tv character. He's really done nothing of importance so far. And I think the relationship between him and Sansa in the books was a meaningful one. It's a shame they have decided to pretty much omit it in the show. But there's still some time...

I can only imagine how the Sansa/Sandor shippers are feeling right now.

Edited by hk47, 24 April 2012 - 06:47 PM.