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[Book spoiler] Aren't you bothered?


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#1 ShadowRaven

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:15 PM

It seemed all so sudden, and so unnatural. I'm referring to the opening of this weeks episode. The acting seemed forced and not natural.

And not to mention the HUGE diversion from the books. This whole episode seemed 40% different from the books, which - yes - did bother me.

I'm referring to the way Theon captured Winterfell, how Rodrik died, how LF presented himself to Tywin and how impossible Jaqen's killing of that dude who couldn't read seemed. I mean; I know the FM can do some pretty epic shizzle, but not in that way. It seemed too forced.

Or how about that dragon storyline for Daenarys! I know I know, 'it's television and needs to be different' or 'otherwise she wouldn't have a big role', BUT still, it seemed too different. Now Dany will probably go to the house of the undying because her dragons were stolen; no such thing happened in the books.

I give this week's episode a 7/10 at most.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

#2 Crown

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:54 PM

The opening sequence (Theon taking Winterfell) was sublime.

#3 Reposado

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:56 PM

Didnt mind the dragon theft. they need something for dany to do this season.

the rest ehh, they are making bad decisions this season

#4 Lady Sansa Stark

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:57 PM

I actually don't care, imho, this was the best episode of Season 2 so far. Of course there is the huge diversion, but without the Reeds, the Bastard and limited budget, I think they did a great job. No, Cassel didn't die this way in the books, but he replaced the one Theon killed that way, don't remember his name anymore though. It had more emotion, especially with Bran and Rickon helpless to do anything.
And actually, the capturing itself wasn't really that different from the book if I recall it well. It was kind of a surprise with few men to capture the castle, Theon told Bran in his bedroom to yield the castle because Theon needed the people etc.

All of the actions of Littlefinger are quite different on TV than in the books, I have to say. He never visited Catelyn and made that stupid remark, never went to Tywin at Harrenhal to discuss the Tyrell-matter etc. Moreover, it seemed as if he did recognise Arya at last, but didn't say a word to Tywin, I'm wondering how the writers are going to solve that.

I loved Jaqen and Arya this episode. That epic look Jaqen gave her; priceless.

#5 Fez

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:00 PM

All I demand from a work of fiction is that be internally consistent; once that trick's down we can move on to things like dialog, but it comes first. This is Game of Thrones not A Song of Ice and Fire and everything from that perspective was completely in line with what has come previously.

And Qarth was always a weak point in the story, I think Dany going to the warlocks on a quest for revenge for 3 counts of dragon kidnapping adds a lot of much-needed drama to it.

#6 IronSuitor

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:19 PM

Dany's arc is a snoozefest throughout CoK (pretty much every review I've read notes that about the show, as well). Thank god they added some short term tension.

This episode was the most thoroughly entertaining this season. The tweaks to the story and characterization make it interesting. I could always just do another read-through, if that's what I wanted. But its not. What I want is good television. This episode delivered.

#7 Peasant Rebel Leader

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:19 PM

The episode worked for me, they do less exposition now and more story, there are actual mini-arcs in one episode (see Osha convincing Theon and then freeing the kids f.e.).

There were some unnecessary weak points like the sitcomy way Robb's scenes with Jeyne/Talisa were set up, Jaqen literally able (and willing) to kil Armory Lorch in under 5 minutes or the fact that they have apparently already eaten all their horses in King's Landing (must have been the big bad budget monster).

Especially the way Robb and Talisa's "Epic Love Story" - copyright Hollywood - was presented, irked me. It seemed more of "Twu Luuv" than the pseudo-realism we're used to from Game of Thrones.

So, what bothered you more actually? The adaption from the books or the inner consistency of the tv series itself?

#8 Arkash

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:21 PM

I am not bothered at all, all the tiny changes they made, as I already said on three different topics today, are minor, the main lines of the story is here, there hasnt been any major change from the books yet, nothing uncatchable... and I really appreciate their decisions so far... except for the too much amount of sex eating screen-time for other stories, but since we hadnt any in the last two episodes, I'm glad of it !

#9 Hyper

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:29 PM

What??? The opening scene was probably one of the most sublime and well crafted 10 mins of the show yet.

I get that people have issues with the Qarth scenes, but I really think the show was firing on all cylinders with that opening.

Edited by Hyper, 07 May 2012 - 04:31 PM.


#10 ShadowRaven

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:30 PM

I am not bothered at all, all the tiny changes they made, as I already said on three different topics today, are minor, the main lines of the story is here, there hasnt been any major change from the books yet, nothing uncatchable... and I really appreciate their decisions so far... except for the too much amount of sex eating screen-time for other stories, but since we hadnt any in the last two episodes, I'm glad of it !


Have we forgotten about the Reeds so quickly? Or how about Reek (I know, Bolton's Bastard is still coming, but different Reek).

#11 Greenseer Stark

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:33 PM

I disagree with the OP. The start to this episode was one of the strongest to date. I thought the acting of the Stark children was first class, as was Alfie Allen(Theon). Agree that Dany's story had to be given something more for it to translate well to television, so I'm all in favour of the dragon theft. The end result will be the same I'm guessing.

#12 Ashas Globetrotter

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:36 PM

I have never been a purist, but I`m with Shadowraven with this. This episode diverged from the book in every scene except the riot(-greeeeeat). Except Arya GRRMs version is better. Plus in retrospect I understand that they need to juice up Dany. But did not like how the Ygritte scene ended up. Whats gonna happen now, he`s going straight to the Wildlings out of love?? cliche- blah!! Winterfell was good enough, but in general they are not creating the shock n suprise factor that GRRM manages-too rushed intro.I hope this not means the will continue doing a complete juggle with the story. The promise of the bastard provided massive relief though.

#13 IronSuitor

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:36 PM

Have we forgotten about the Reeds so quickly? Or how about Reek (I know, Bolton's Bastard is still coming, but different Reek).


You'll not see me mourning the Reeds.

#14 The Crannogman

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:46 PM

It seemed all so sudden, and so unnatural. I'm referring to the opening of this weeks episode. The acting seemed forced and not natural.

And not to mention the HUGE diversion from the books. This whole episode seemed 40% different from the books, which - yes - did bother me.

I'm referring to the way Theon captured Winterfell, how Rodrik died, how LF presented himself to Tywin and how impossible Jaqen's killing of that dude who couldn't read seemed. I mean; I know the FM can do some pretty epic shizzle, but not in that way. It seemed too forced.

Or how about that dragon storyline for Daenarys! I know I know, 'it's television and needs to be different' or 'otherwise she wouldn't have a big role', BUT still, it seemed too different. Now Dany will probably go to the house of the undying because her dragons were stolen; no such thing happened in the books.



These were my exact thoughts while watching the episode, and I am really surprised more people don't feel this way. The major plot lines in this episode (ie. sack of winter fell/Rodrick's beheading, Kings Landing riots, and Jon's story line) all seemed awkwardly done. This to me was the worst episode so far. The budget cuts and story line changes seemed so cheesy to me. Very disappointed.

#15 Blangadanger

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:47 PM

I was very happy with everything in this episode except Robb and Talisa. The writing in those scenes is not nearly as strong as it is in the rest of the series. I think I liked it better when he just showed up in Book 3 with a new wife without all the hardly believable schmooze between the two.

#16 turdle

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:57 PM

i do think they're diverging too far from the source in general, but still think this was the best episode of the season. i thought the taking of winterfell was great, it had my friends (non-readers) assuming it was a dream at first. theon is my favorite character in the second book, so seeing his struggle given the new situation of ser rodrick was a great moral dilemma for him.

the one thing that i really did not like, was little finger having a bizarre desire to see the face of some random cup bearer working for tywin.

if you're hoping they're going to somehow come back around and make the show closer to the books, you're deluding yourself. basically tyrion is the only character who's scenes really resemble the books anymore, and i don't expect that to change much. i've learned to just accept that at this point.

#17 SerMixalot

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:03 PM

THe difficult that this season and the future seasons will have is simply hte magnitude of GRRMs work.

Season 1 was perfect in that it could follow the book so closely. because the scale of the book was essentially a 10 hour movie.

Season 2 just starts making the world larger (and the problem will only get worse from a tv perspective). They really needed to make this season 13 or 15 episodes to do it justice. There is just too little time to devote to the individual story lines. That is what is lacking for me. Even great stuff like last night's capture of Winterfell seemed rushed.

and things will only get worse next season.

#18 turdle

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:38 PM

THe difficult that this season and the future seasons will have is simply hte magnitude of GRRMs work.

Season 1 was perfect in that it could follow the book so closely. because the scale of the book was essentially a 10 hour movie.

Season 2 just starts making the world larger (and the problem will only get worse from a tv perspective). They really needed to make this season 13 or 15 episodes to do it justice. There is just too little time to devote to the individual story lines. That is what is lacking for me. Even great stuff like last night's capture of Winterfell seemed rushed.

and things will only get worse next season.


i used to think that too, but really that excuse doesn't hold up. for one thing, they are not obligated to do one book per season, as the producers have themselves said. this is not a movie that needs to be kept at around 2 hours, this is a television show that HBO would love to continue until the end of time assuming the ratings held up. so what if they didn't reach the end of clash of kings when episode 10 hit? and beyond that, they're not only trying to squeeze all of acok, they're going to be into asos for a number of story lines by the end of this season.

the rush through the books is not an issue of time, it's purely a decision by the producers.

Edited by turdle, 07 May 2012 - 05:39 PM.


#19 Kenneth Yung

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:11 PM

Although I also feel the show is starting to take a lot more liberties with plot changes rather than just plot streamlining, I still think the show is doing great job. The whole A Song of Fire and Ice series is undoubtly a character driven story. So long as the series is able to still properly portray the characters motivations and personality as well as move them through the key plot checkpoints, it should not be a big deal. Especially because the current actors are doing an amazing job at bringing the story characters to life. Theon especially now. We're getting a really good sense of how torn up he is between his Northern upbringing and the Iron way. In the books, he just turncloaked too easily.

So to address some specific complaints:
-Replacing Jeyne Westerling. Kind of a big change IMO. But as long as Robb ends up reluctantly breaking his Oath to the Freys to marry another girl out of love, than its not a big deal. In the show though, seems like he's the one trying to bang her. And she's not a noble. So it seems a bit out of character.
-No Reeds. Understandable considering budgets, timing, finding good child actors. They aren't the most critical characters in the book so far and can certainly be introduced in a later season if they turn out to play some key role in The Winds of Winter. Not quite sure how they''ll split up Rickon and Bran now though. I figured Osha would replace the Reeds
-Rodrik Cassel. Not a big deal. I figure that Theon will be convinced to surrender to Ramsey. Ramsey comes in and slaughters Winterfellians and Ironmen alike. Shows Ramsey a psychopath. Same result.
-Peter Baelish at Harrenhal. Dont know why this was thrown in. Its probably to keep Baelish on the show. Doesnt change much unless something actually happens between him and Arya.
-Qarth - All the filler up to the warlocks temple wasnt that memorable. Her dragons getting stolen makes for understandibly better television. Gives her a better reason to burn the warlock temple down then, "a bunch of dead blue wise ones wanted to eat me"
-Jon / Ygritte - This change I dont like personally. I feel like him specifically receiving orders from the halfhand to join the wildlings and then him killing halfhand is such an important part of Jon's characterization. But.. i guess its workroundable. Watching Ygritte snuggle with him and him being like WTF was cute.
-Amory and Jaqen - it was a funny scene and worth it IMO


So bottom line in my opinion. Acting still great. Plot should still be progressing along key points.
NO big deal!

#20 Arkash

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:16 PM

-Jon / Ygritte - This change I dont like personally. I feel like him specifically receiving orders from the halfhand to join the wildlings and then him killing halfhand is such an important part of Jon's characterization. But.. i guess its workroundable. Watching Ygritte snuggle with him and him being like WTF was cute.


Dont worry, it is obvious Qhorin will reappear again!