The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones Khal Drogo Women's T-Shirt
Women’s T-Shirt Khal Drogo
HBO US
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

Cersei never truly loved Jaime.


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#1 Vandalism

Vandalism

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 221 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 02:03 AM

Let's have a look at what we learned from her during A Feast For Crows.

She was in love with Rhaegar Targaryen when all those rumours about her being wed to him were flying around. That wedding would have been excellent for her, Rhaegar being the crown prince and all. She commented on how Jaime looked so boring and simple compared to Rhaegar. Love of her life my ass.

Another example of this was Aurane Waters. As soon as Cersei saw how she had a lot of use for the guy, she began having thoughts of him being 'comely' and that white hair of his reminding her of Rhaegar.

When Robert Baratheon turned out a disappointing husband, that's when her love with Jaime was at its peak. And during her childhood when there was not any other competitor.

She clearly developed 'feelings' only for those she had the most use for, and conveniently rubbished her love for Jaime whenever he did not do something she wanted.

#2 Sjbookworm

Sjbookworm

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:35 AM

You've got me thinking. With a vile bitch like Cersei, it's hard to tell. Maybe she did love Jaime, because she could not be entirely without emotions, seen by her love for her children. Maybe she didn't. I agree, it seemed kind of... unloving... for her to do as she did to Jaime. And when she needed his help when she was arrested, she never hesitated to send for him.

#3 bloodymime

bloodymime

    Council Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,293 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:50 AM

Personally I don't think either loved the other except for what they saw of themself. I think what they both were doing was engaging in the ultimate narcissistic masturbatory fantasy. It's telling they both turned their backs on each other as soon the mirror got tilted.

#4 Francisco R. Fonseca

Francisco R. Fonseca

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 238 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 01:43 PM

I've got about 230 pages left in AFFC, but agree w/the OP. She seemed to "love" Jamie as long as he was of use, once he started thinking his own ideas and not obeying she had little use for him. Plus, she was sleeping w/Lancel, the Kettlebacks, etc. and Jamie no one else, so the feelings were obviously one sided.

#5 Lan the Clever

Lan the Clever

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 417 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 05:00 PM

Cersei loves Cersei only. As such, she never loved Jaime or even Rhaegar.

#6 The Anti-Targ

The Anti-Targ

    Socially liberal, morally conservative

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,655 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 06:37 PM

Other than her children, Cersei only loves people who are useful to her. Jaime was useful as a reflection of herself. Cersei's part in the incest was really narcissistic, whereas Jaime actually thought there was genuine love. Hence Cersei can move on and screw whoever is useful, but Jaime joined the Kingsguard so that he could forever remain a one woman man.

#7 team wench

team wench

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:24 PM

I agree with Cersei loving Jaime as a reflection of herself, I think he is the man she has love the most among all the men in her life but just no enough as "love of her life" or anything, she loves useful and manly. Jaime actually loved her, he was proud of never been with a woman who wasn`t Cersei and loved her with all her faults, he will always lover her even if he understand she is poson and has to stay away from her.

#8 KhaleesiDany

KhaleesiDany

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 413 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:22 PM

Personally I don't think either loved the other except for what they saw of themself. I think what they both were doing was engaging in the ultimate narcissistic masturbatory fantasy. It's telling they both turned their backs on each other as soon the mirror got tilted.


"ultimate narcissistic masturbatory fantasy" hahaha I love it.

I was pretty disappointed with Jaime and Cersei's chapters because I wanted to see more of how they loved each other, but it turned out they really didn't love each other very much at all. I don't know if it was like this before he returned with his hand missing (probably not they seemed to be all over each other in Game of Thrones). Every opportunity she had to put him down, she took it. I felt like I missed something about why she was so mean to him. I don't really understand what they ever saw in each other. Bloodymime's explanation is really the only one that makes any sense to me at all.

Jamie disappointed me too by sending Brienne off (who really loved him) and breaking his oaths to Catelyn. At the end of the book, when he gets the letter from Cersei, I wasn't surprised by his reaction because she is such a bitch but it made me question why he kept serving her at all. Now it seems like the lannisters are out of power in favor of the church so I'm hoping Jaime goes rogue or something.

I agree with Vandalism about Rhaegar, but I think it was more that she felt scorned than that she really loved him. She would have rather married Rhaegar, true, but imagine how she would have reacted to Lyanna . . . I don't think she would be okay with that. She would find a way to be unhappy no matter what.

#9 bloodymime

bloodymime

    Council Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,293 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:43 PM

There's so much telling I think, especially Cersei's pov. Remember that these two began experimenting very young when they were still so identical they could switch places without people knowing the difference. There's all kinds of quotes that are interesting but two always stick out to me, Cersei first admitting it to Ned

"And Jaime and I are more than brother and sister. We are one person in two bodies. We shared a womb together. He came into this world holding my foot, our old maester said. When he is in me, I feel … whole."

And later Jaime's first thought upon seeing himself after his time in captivity.

"I don’t look as much like Cersei this way. She’ll hate that."

Jaime's such a strange case. A warrior so full of pride and arrogance in everything else yet living this lie all these yearss skulking about behind Robert's back as the coward. I never know what quite to make of it. As much as I think Cersei domintated him I don't think I still fully realize just how much control she had over him.

#10 Jolene Brown

Jolene Brown

    All CAPSLOCK, all the TIME.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,399 posts

Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:33 PM

I think they love each other, but it is a twisted and unhealthy love which Jaime has just barely managed to begin to separate from in time, while Cercei, I think, is too late. I think her line about how "it had never been good with anyone but Jaime" is telling. I think he does make her feel whole, but she resents him for that - she is constantly trying to assert her power over him and resentful when he pushes back (his rejection of her when she comes to him in the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard's quarters and during Tywin's vigil, as well as his refusal to be her Hand).

However, I don't think that necessarily means she only loves him when he does what she wants, I just think she interprets these actions as a lessening of his love for her (which, I think, is not entirely inaccurate), and wants to hurt him the way that rejection hurts her. Thus, she lashes out with bitchtastic actions like her treatment of her when he asks her to dance at Tommen's wedding and sending him to Riverrun despite his desire not to go, both because he wants to stay near Tommen and because he wants to hold onto the last remnants of his oath to Catelyn Stark. However, I do understand why she does this and I think it's a bit sad.

She tries to find pleasure with Taena but is unable to. She doesn't seem to care for the Kettleblacks or Lancel at all. I think what she is seeking, in her very twisted way, is what Jaime has found with Brienne - a love that will free her from her unhealthy relationship with Jaime. But again, just because it isn't healthy doesn't mean it isn't love - it's just a bad tainted love! They will both be better off freed of it, but Jaime has a better shot at that than Cercei at this point, ironically, given that I agree that his love started out as a bit more true.

#11 Menos Grande

Menos Grande

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 121 posts

Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:57 AM

I think she did love him at some point, but she hated him too, because she envyed him he was a man and had all the things she wanted, and all the things she jugde was rightfully hers.
Jaime I think he truly loved her, he was true to her even we she started to be a bitch with him.. he desires her and it is faithfull but knowing other women far more interessting like Catlyn and Brianne are shortly changing his feelings... He might survive the fall of the lannisters.

Edited by Menos Grande, 26 May 2012 - 12:57 AM.


#12 the stranger in the dark

the stranger in the dark

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:38 AM

I am in the middle of rereading AFFC. IMHO Cersei is a narcissistic sociopath and sees Jamie as her male reflection and what better way than for her to love herself than to make love to Jamie.
From my understanding their sexual relationship started before the rumours of her marrying Rhaegar surfaced as it was stated that a maid caught them as children doing somehting that meant they were given seperate bedrooms.

Of course Robert treated her badly and she sought out the only person she could trust her brother for solace but i believe even if she did marry Rhaegar she would have still carried on with Jamie.

He fact that the act of sex means nothing but pleasure and this she then gets from Lancel and the Kettleback.

I also think her reaction to Jamie is because he came back from captivity a changed man physically and mentally. Jamie was no longer Cerseis oppersite both physically and mentally. Meaning the pleasure is no longer taken from loving herself using him.

#13 Francisco R. Fonseca

Francisco R. Fonseca

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 238 posts

Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:11 PM

What was odd about this book was, that unlike ASOS and Jamie's chapters, I never grew to like her or sympathize w/her. In fact I ended up disliking her even more. I think Jamie loved Cersei.....she though I'm not sure if she ever did. He's never slept w/someone else and had plenty of opportunities while she on the other hand sleeps with anyone and everyone she can to get what she wants. I think she was interested in Jamie for as long as she could use him, and once he came back a changed man, she lost interest.

#14 ckal

ckal

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,362 posts

Posted 03 June 2012 - 12:27 AM

She loved Jaime when she thought they were literally one person and wanted the same thing. Once he changed and did not willingly help her anymore, she stopped loving him or realized she didn't love him. And then her last chapter and the letter....clearly she just likes to use Jaime.

#15 Elder Sister

Elder Sister

    I don't like your face. Makes me want to do things to it.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,201 posts

Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:24 PM

I don't think Cersei is capable of real love other than towards her children...she's extremely self-serving. I think Jaime really did love her...he was faithful to her,even when it wasn't convenient.

I found Jaime to be sort of pitiful when he's transforming into a more noble character...he recognizes Cersei's selfishness, but still cares for her.

#16 DornishFroggy

DornishFroggy

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 49 posts

Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:58 PM

Jaime is everything Cersei wanted to be! Tywin's heir and beloved son! Jaime is her male reflection, that's what she loves about him!

#17 ServantOnIce

ServantOnIce

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,985 posts

Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:41 PM

Cersei loves Cersei only. As such, she never loved Jaime or even Rhaegar.


There is a part of Cersei that starts to hate Jaime (now that he is a cripple) and even hate her Father towards the end of the book. Cersei packs on the lbs, becomes a alcoholic and ends up loathing everyone that isn't Myrcella and Tommen. I think the book shows her past, present and future psychology.

A Great work for Martin, she is layered and not just some evil psycho . .

#18 Stark@heart

Stark@heart

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 861 posts

Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:31 PM

Cersei a sociopath. She "loved" Jamie because she wanted to be Jamie. Now that Jamie isn't a perfect reflection of herself and her values, he's expendable.

#19 Lyanna Stark

Lyanna Stark

    Metaphysically Inferior

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,588 posts

Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:50 AM

Jaime's such a strange case. A warrior so full of pride and arrogance in everything else yet living this lie all these yearss skulking about behind Robert's back as the coward. I never know what quite to make of it. As much as I think Cersei domintated him I don't think I still fully realize just how much control she had over him.


Part of that is because he let her though. It was comfortable having someone else make the decisions, no? That's why Jaime's journey is difficult, it's not just so much his love/not love, faithful/not faithful wrt Cersei, but because he actually need to actively make his own decisions and take charge of his situation. In another way than waving a sword at it, I might add. It echoes Cat's words in ACOK that to men the answer is always simple, just lift a sword.

I think they love each other, but it is a twisted and unhealthy love which Jaime has just barely managed to begin to separate from in time, while Cercei, I think, is too late. I think her line about how "it had never been good with anyone but Jaime" is telling. I think he does make her feel whole, but she resents him for that - she is constantly trying to assert her power over him and resentful when he pushes back (his rejection of her when she comes to him in the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard's quarters and during Tywin's vigil, as well as his refusal to be her Hand).


/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

I think it's clear they did love eachother, but that it was a deeply unhealthy and partly narcissistic love. Condemning it as "not love" like a lot of people do is simplistic though as love comes in many forms and different shapes. And it's not a given that it will last forever, nor endure under strain.

#20 Xander Baratheon

Xander Baratheon

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts

Posted 13 June 2012 - 01:35 AM

Jaime is everything Cersei wanted to be! Tywin's heir and beloved son! Jaime is her male reflection, that's what she loves about him!


Exactly how I saw it. I also think Cersei cannot possibly love Jaime because she will forever be jealous of him living the life she wants. Her horrid personality traits stem from her powerlessness and she had to develop a sort of hatred for him since he has everything she ever wanted. Jaime turned out to be quite the soft touch. What a sweetheart he is.