190 replies to this topic

[Frey Pie]

Just wondering why so many people think hes a great commander or the best general in Westeros? The best leader threads come around every so often and hes often put up as the best or very close.

While i dont doubt hes a good competent commander i dont think you can compare him to the likes of Stannis, Robert etc, even though he defeated the latter once

[theguyfromtheVale]

Frey Pie, on 28 July 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Just wondering why so many people think hes a great commander or the best general in Westeros? The best leader threads come around every so often and hes often put up as the best or very close.

While i dont doubt hes a good competent commander i dont think you can compare him to the likes of Stannis, Robert etc, even though he defeated the latter once

Tarly was the only Targaryen commander to ever defeat Robert. Didn't matter much in the grand scheme of things, but still.

[Naathi Prince]

Tarly beat Robert with only the vanguard.

[Third World King]

Frey Pie, on 28 July 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Just wondering why so many people think hes a great commander or the best general in Westeros? The best leader threads come around every so often and hes often put up as the best or very close.

While i dont doubt hes a good competent commander i dont think you can compare him to the likes of Stannis, Robert etc, even though he defeated the latter once

Tarly beat Robert, and Robert is a better commander than Stannis. You do the math.

[kissdbyfire]

I agree, i think he gets more praise than he deserves. There's nothing really concrete to prove his awesomeness, IMO. What we do learn is that he's a better commander/military leader than Mace Tyrell but that's not such a great accomplishment.

[Ser Hippie]

I asked this in the "small questions" thread and didn't really get a satisfying answer there either. As far as I can tell, Tarly was in command at two victories -

(1) He commanded the Tyrell van at Ashford where he defeated Robert. The battle, however, was strategically indecisive (even meaningless), as Robert withdrew from the field and continued the war while Mace Tyrell moved on to besiege Storm's End.

(2) He commanded the Tyrell-Lannister forces that defeated the Stark forces at Duskendale. Of course, he not only outnumbered Tallhart and Glover, he also was ambushing them thanks to Roose Bolton's treachery.

Yet, as note, everyone goes crazy for him as the greatest commander in Westeros, why?

[Ser Hippie]

Third World King, on 28 July 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Tarly beat Robert, and Robert is a better commander than Stannis. You do the math.

I don't see how Robert a better commander than Stannis, he's a better fighter. Many of the victories in the rebellion were not due to Robert's command capabilities (even at the Trident, I'd guess Jon Arryn/Ned were at least equally as responsible for overall command, perhaps more so given how Robert got swept into his duel with Rhaegar).

[Hukthagz]

Third World King, on 28 July 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Robert is a better commander than Stannis. You do the math.

No he isn't.

[Third World King]

Hukthagz, on 28 July 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

No he isn't.

Yes, he is.

[Frey Pie]

Third World King, on 28 July 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Tarly beat Robert, and Robert is a better commander than Stannis. You do the math.

Things dont work that way. If a football team beats another once it doesnt necessarily make them a better team. One often sees so called "Giant Killers"in cups. To say Tarly is better than Robert is wrong

Ser Hippie, on 28 July 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

I asked this in the "small questions" thread and didn't really get a satisfying answer there either. As far as I can tell, Tarly was in command at two victories -

(1) He commanded the Tyrell van at Ashford where he defeated Robert. The battle, however, was strategically indecisive (even meaningless), as Robert withdrew from the field and continued the war while Mace Tyrell moved on to besiege Storm's End.

(2) He commanded the Tyrell-Lannister forces that defeated the Stark forces at Duskendale. Of course, he not only outnumbered Tallhart and Glover, he also was ambushing them thanks to Roose Bolton's treachery.

Yet, as note, everyone goes crazy for him as the greatest commander in Westeros, why?

I agree. Anyone who researches Ashford will see it wasnt a decisive victory. He made Robert rethink his moves but i imagine it was the ferocity of his assault with the vanguard that overwhelmed Roberts initial positioon and not some great tactical move.

Duskendale was a no lose situation. He outnumbered the enemy and had a mixed force of cavalry and infantry, where the enemy were all on foot. Yet he still suffered significant losses. Now i like the guy and think hes a competent commander but he gets far too much credit

[Hukthagz]

Third World King, on 28 July 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Yes, he is.

Yes, he killed Rhaegar on duel. He must be a good commander right?

[E-Ro]

Ser Hippie, on 28 July 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

(2) He commanded the Tyrell-Lannister forces that defeated the Stark forces at Duskendale. Of course, he not only outnumbered Tallhart and Glover, he also was ambushing them thanks to Roose Bolton's treachery.

And took heavy casualties in the process.

[Mr Motte]

The thing about Tarly's victory was; Robert retreated. In fact, I doubt much fighting took place at all. Robert didn't want to face the majority of the Tyrell army, knowing he didn't have the numbers (he only had the men of the Stormlands at this point). So, when Randyll Tarly's vanguard arrived, Robert soon bailed. The only way it helped the royal cause was it left Storm's End open to the loyalists. It was hardly a victory worth mentioning, because it seems there wasn't really a battle in the first place.

That being said, Tarly may be overrated as a commander. He "defeated" Robert, and also won at Duskendale and Maidenpool. However, he won no great victories that we know of, so our judgement is based more on hype.

[Frey Pie]

Theres no doubt Robert is a good commander, from what we know he was very successful on the field. Wether or not hes as good as Stannis is up for debate but both are certainly more accomplished than Tarly

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Randyl is a good maybe the best soldier, that doesn't mean he is the best commander.

[Third World King]

Ser Hippie, on 28 July 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

I don't see how Robert a better commander than Stannis, he's a better fighter. Many of the victories in the rebellion were not due to Robert's command capabilities (even at the Trident, I'd guess Jon Arryn/Ned were at least equally as responsible for overall command, perhaps more so given how Robert got swept into his duel with Rhaegar).

Uhmm, Robert killed Rhaegar...

[Third World King]

Frey Pie, on 28 July 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Things dont work that way. If a football team beats another once it doesnt necessarily make them a better team. One often sees so called "Giant Killers"in cups. To say Tarly is better than Robert is wrong

The same could be said about Stannis though:

Just because Stannis beat Victorian, don't mean he is better.
Just because Stannis beat Mance, do not mean he is better.

Get where I am going with this?

[Frey Pie]

Mr Motte, on 28 July 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

The thing about Tarly's victory was; Robert retreated. In fact, I doubt much fighting took place at all. Robert didn't want to face the majority of the Tyrell army, knowing he didn't have the numbers (he only had the men of the Stormlands at this point). So, when Randyll Tarly's vanguard arrived, Robert soon bailed. The only way it helped the royal cause was it left Storm's End open to the loyalists. It was hardly a victory worth mentioning, because it seems there wasn't really a battle in the first place.

That being said, Tarly may be overrated as a commander. He "defeated" Robert, and also won at Duskendale and Maidenpool. However, he won no great victories that we know of, so our judgement is based more on hype.

Exactly. Maidenpool wasnt a battle really. He just kinda marched in, locked Lord Mooton away and started rebuilding and hanging outlaws

I believe a lot of the hype is based on Kevan Lannisters opinion of him

[David Selig]

He has good PR, I guess. Maybe he's bribing singers to write and perform songs about his military prowess.

[Third World King]

Hukthagz, on 28 July 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Yes, he killed Rhaegar on duel. He must be a good commander right?

He won the war.