Becoming No One: Rereading Arya II

[1234567]

@ Callandori

We'll be on Arya IV very soon (probably by next week). It will be great to hear your thoughts on the Ghost of High Heart them. :)

Also great pick up on the Inn of the Kneeling Man. I completely missed that was Torren Stark.

Also Arta missing needle. :( Very sad.

[Blisscraft]

Sometime I thank God for unanswered prayers

There is a lot going in here. Arya is hiding behind a tree but also kneeling behind this willow with all the symbolic importance Blisscraft pointed out. The trees are how the Old Gods see but Arya can't see these men specifically because of the tree blocks her sight. She is also hiding from a singer which has CotF associations. Immediately after she prays to the tree gods who are blocking her sight a horse whickers. Animals and warging are also the dominion of these tree gods and horses, as has been noted earlier, are a symbol of Arya's freedom. Horses are also specifically associated with Arya's face which relates to her true identity and this horse revealing her location is what detours her from Riverrun to the Faceless Men. Arguably Arya is free in Braavos instead of dead or captive at the Twins or Riverrun because this horse whickers. It is also horses, learning to ride a pony specifically, that makes Harwin recognize her.

Aside from repeated theme of eating or sustaining herself on death there's the parallel willow scene from CoK.

Nice, Ragnorak, I completely forgot about Arya's posture behind the willow tree. :bowdown: Also, love that you bring up Arya's affinity with horses. It has always seemed to me that the horse was Ayra's individual "animal totem" in addition to the family animal totem, the direwolf. (As Sansa's individual animal is the bird).

When the gods don't answer prayers, it seems that the answer must be "no."

I look forward to the High Heart chapter with great eagerness. :drool: Can't wait to hear more from you!

[Lummel]

Wolves eat horses. Seems an unhappy combination. But what horses do for sure is strengthen her link to Lyanna Stark, I mean her Auntie not the renowned denizen of the board, who was also a famed horsewoman.

Really the pair of you I'm not so sure that the old gods didn't hear her prayer - if one wants to believe in the old gods or Bloodraven as motive forces in the book. By sending the BWB along they seem to have saved Arya and her travelling companions several times over. Had she survived to reach Riverrun she would have been in place to attend her Uncle's wedding or still worse to be married by her brother to a lucky Frey.

[Mladen]

Wolves eat horses. Seems an unhappy combination. But what horses do for sure is strengthen her link to Lyanna Stark, I mean her Auntie not the renowned denizen of the board, who was also a famed horsewoman.

First about that Lyanna resemblance. I know everyone says she appears like Lyanna, but I believe that Lyanna`s character sublimes in Stark girls so wonderfully. Arya presents freedom Lyanna never had, her wolf blood, and her strength and Sansa represents her emotional inteligence.

Also, wolves eat horses? Can that be refference or prophetical statement? Arya is a wolf, there`s no deny in that, but who is the horse? Above all Valyrian blood and three dragons, Dany is Dothrali khaleesi. She`s always answered by that title. And now comes the tricky part. Does `eating horses` means killing Dany, or it means severing the ties between Dany and Dothraki? Could Arya be the one to bring Dany home?

[Ragnorak]

Wolves eat horses. Seems an unhappy combination. But what horses do for sure is strengthen her link to Lyanna Stark, I mean her Auntie not the renowned denizen of the board, who was also a famed horsewoman.

Really the pair of you I'm not so sure that the old gods didn't hear her prayer - if one wants to believe in the old gods or Bloodraven as motive forces in the book. By sending the BWB along they seem to have saved Arya and her travelling companions several times over. Had she survived to reach Riverrun she would have been in place to attend her Uncle's wedding or still worse to be married by her brother to a lucky Frey.

The idea behind "sometimes I thank God for unanswered prayers" is indeed that the old gods heard and answered. I suspect Garth Brooks falls outside your vast purview of references and allusions. The horse does whicker almost as if in response to her prayer and given Bloodraven's affinity for warging animals it at least begs the question.

[Lummel]

you guess correctly Sir, yon troubadour is unknown to me :laugh:

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

The idea behind "sometimes I thank God for unanswered prayers" is indeed that the old gods heard and answered. I suspect Garth Brooks falls outside your vast purview of references and allusions. The horse does whicker almost as if in response to her prayer and given Bloodraven's affinity for warging animals it at least begs the question.

The old gods can see things through the trees even if people aren't praying, I haven't read any information that the old gods can hear the thoughts of people praying silently, the closest thing that I could think of is BR talking about entering people's dreams.

Arya's silent prayer doesn't go the way she wanted it to, no reason to think it would be answered given what we know about the future events and what would happen if she'd reached Riverrun.

I seem to think there might have been truth in what they said

"'You never knew we were there,' said Gendry

'Now, lad, you shouldn't be so certain of that' said tom,' sometimes a man knows more than he says."

The Champion of the Hand's Tourney

Don't know if it means much but Arya meets Anguy, who won the archery competition in the tournament in KL celebrating her father's appointment as Hand. In this chapter he proves why he won the archery competition to her.

Jaime, the Mountain, the Hound and ser Loras were the four semi finalist in the joust. Arya's already met three of them, Jaime and the Mountain and the Hound.

The winner of the joust was the Hound. The winner of the melee was Thoros of Myr.

[jarl the climber]

It was Anguy not Lem who won the archery competition.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

It was Anguy not Lem who won the archery competition.

:cool4:

[brashcandy]

ASOS – ARYA III

Summary

Arya is worried that the group is headed south and away from Riverrun. She points this out to Gendry, using the moss on the trees as evidence, but he dismisses her concerns, stating that Lem and Tom might know a secret outlaw way. Arya is still uneasy, but thinks that Gendry is now her only friend left since Hot Pie chose to remain at the Inn to help bake bread.

She misses Hot Pie’s company, but having Harwin to talk to is comforting. She fills him in on what happened during the coup at King’s Landing, and how his father died.

Arya told of Yoren and their escape from King’s Landing as well, and much that had happened since, but she let out the stableboy she’d stabbed with Needle, and the guard whose throat she’d cut to get out of Harrenhal. Telling Harwin would be almost like telling her father, and there were some things that she could not bear having her father know.

She also doesn’t speak about Jaqen, but his memory is still with her, and she takes the iron coin out at night, whispering ‘Valar morghulis’ while she says her prayer list of names.

During the journey, Harwin brings her up to date on what happened when they set out with Beric Dondarrion to apprehend Gregor Clegane. A trap had been set for Eddard Stark by Tywin Lannister, but due to Jaime’s rash behavior, Ned was incapacitated and could not go himself. The men sent after Clegane suffered heavy losses, with Beric nearly fatally wounded and having to be tended by Thoros of Myr. After this, Beric pledges that they will continue fighting, but they soon learn that they have become the outlaws themselves due to the deaths of Robert and Ned, and the full concentration of Lannister power in the royal court. Nevertheless, they make a pact to keep fighting for the smallfolk:

If we could not fight for Robert, we would fight for them, until every man of us was dead. And so we did, but as we fought something queer happened. For every man we lost, two showed up to take his place. A few were knights or squires, of gentle birth, but most were common men – fieldhands and fiddlers and innkeeps, servants and shoemakers, even two septons. Men of all sorts, and women too, children, dogs…”

Arya’s interest is piqued when she hears dogs mentioned, and she silently wishes that she had “a good mean dog… a lion killing dog.” She remembers her direwolf Nymeria, and wonders whether a direwolf can kill a lion.

They reach a village that is seemingly deserted, but after a horn is blown, people begin emerging out of their hiding places. During the meal, one of the villagers reveals that men had passed through earlier searching for the Kingslayer. At first, no one can believe that he would have escaped Riverrun, and Greenbeard predicts that the wolves will drown in blood again if the Kingslayer is loose. Lem notes that Beric would love to capture Jaime, and one of the villagers asks if they would hang him:

“A trial first! said Anguy. “Lord Beric always gives them a trial, you know that.” He smiled. “Then he hangs them.”

After this, Tom plays a song about the Kingswood Brotherhood.

That night, Arya dreams of Winterfell; she is outside the castle, trying to reach the gates, but with every step they appear farther away, and the castle fades before her, “until it looked more like smoke than granite.” There are also wolves outside amongst the trees, and Arya remembers the taste of blood when she looks at them.

The next day her suspicions are confirmed when she notices the position of the sun in the sky and Lem tells her that they are not taking her to Riverrun:

I was almost there, Arya thought. I should have let them take our horses. I could have walked the rest of the way. She remembered her dream then and bit her lip.

She is upset, and thinks that if Beric does not send her home she might kill him too. However, it is when Anguy mentions the word captive that she decides to flee. Arya is quick and skilled on the horse, and the chase takes a long time, but eventually she is overtaken by Harwin. Arya says she thought he was her father’s man, but Harwin replies that he belongs now to the lightning lord and his brothers and that Lord Stark is dead. He tells Arya that although he means the Starks no harm, he is not fighting for Robb; the latter has his own army and powerful lords to attend to him.

That he was not Robb’s man, she understood well enough. And that she was his captive. I could have stayed with Hot Pie. We could have taken the little boat and sailed it up to Riverrun. She had been better off as Squab. No one would take Squab captive, or Nan or Weasel or Arry, the orphan boy. I was a wolf, she thought, but now I’m just some stupid little lady again.

Analysis

Character Development

In a pattern established from Arya’s very first chapter in AGOT, we’ve seen her instinct to flee or fight when faced with danger or a situation that she finds oppressive and unbearable. Since then, this instinct has been sharpened into a learned survival response, as painful and horrifying experiences have taught Arya just what it means to be a captive, and at the mercy of other people. This is what sends her into a “panic” and sparks her desperate attempt to be free of the BWB. Important to note - this isn’t “blind” panic, as Arya is able to call on Syrio’s training to calm herself and make her escape as clean as possible:

Captive. Arya took a breath to still her soul. Calm as still water. She glanced at the outlaws on their horses and turned her horse’s head. Now, quick as a snake, she thought, as she slammed her heels into the courser’s flank. Right between Greenbeard and Jack-Be-Lucky she flew, and caught one glimpse of Gendry’s startled face as his mare moved out of her way. And then she was in the open field and running.

It also reflects the psychological scars that are present in Arya’s psyche. At the end of the chapter, she laments that she was a wolf, but now she’s just a “stupid little lady.” The reclamation of her true identity as Arya Stark has not led to the expected return of family and happiness; instead she’s just another highborn captive who must have her fate decided by a dead man. The allegiance that she expected to find in Harwin is no longer there, and this mirrors the disillusionment she now experiences in being Arya Stark.

… there were some things that she could not bear having her father know.

Although she is willing to kill if she has to, and thinks in this very chapter that she might be another person to kill Lord Beric, Arya is still not comfortable with having those acts judged by those she sees as parental figures. The victim is not the only one who suffers or is changed by the act of violence, and for Arya, having her father realize how this truth applies to her is not something she can face at the moment.

It has always seemed to me that the horse was Ayra's individual "animal totem" in addition to the family animal totem, the direwolf. (As Sansa's individual animal is the bird).

Blisscraft’s observation bears fruit in this chapter with Arya’s spectacular flight on horseback. Even though Harwin eventually catches her, he pays her the highest compliment:

“You ride like a northman, Milady… Your aunt was the same. Lady Lyanna…”

The comparison to Lyanna is the second one we’ve seen since Ned mentioned her having the wolf blood.

Foreshadowing/Symbolism:

• Arya’s dream: This would likely foreshadow her failure in returning home or reconnecting with her family. The taste of blood in her mouth when she sees the wolves recalls her warg bond with Nymeria.
  
• A lion-killing dog: The Hound’s appearance is heavily foreshadowed in this chapter, first in Arya wish to have a mean dog who would kill Lannisters, and then in the talk of what Beric does to those he captures. Anguy’s jokes indicate that the trials Beric conducts are pretty much shams.
  
• Becoming no one: Arya’s recognition that had she remained as one of her “nobody” identities she would likely have been free to do as she liked, and her continued thoughts on Jaqen’s fading face and the iron coin, foreshadow her eventual choice to remain with the Faceless men. There’s very little power in having a name or ties to a powerful House. As she finds out in the chapter, these things can be rendered virtually useless in times of war, when allegiances shift and the hunters become the hunted.
  

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

Symbolism:

"The rains came and went, but there were more gray skies than blue, all the streams were running high" to open the chapter.

Rains might be Arya's sadness, gray skies represent how she's finding out more and more how men are gray, this chapter will be no different as she learns that the person she finally trusts her "true identity" is not on her side. The streams running high? Something to do with her Tully connection maybe? They want to take her to Lord Beric who will probably ransom her to her mother. Blue skies represent the little happiness she has from talking with Harwin.

"True Friends"

She calls Gendry her only "true friend" left now that Hot Pie had left them. That is another instance of comparing friends to "true friends" much like we've seen knights and "true knights", robbers and "true robbers"

She calls Hot Pie her true friend because they'd been together so long despite his flaws.

She apologizes for attacking Hot Pie that one time, Hot Pie loses his name and is just now called boy. While he learns her name is Lady Arya he treats her much different than he did when she was Arry. Which she doesn't like. More of her rejection of being a lady here.

"Could a dire-wolf kill a lion?" something to keep in mind for later.

They talk about how Lord Beric would love to catch the Kingslayer and give him a trial, then hang him. Something to keep in mind for later.

Throughout the chapter she often regrets identifying herself to them now when she finds that they're not taking her to Riverrun. She notes she could've walked the rest of the way there. Once she finds is captured after she races off with her horse she realizes that any of her other identities would've not been held for ransom.

[brashcandy]

Wow I didn't expect a new chapter up so quick...

I thought I'd surprise everyone ;) Feel free to continue the discussion from the last chapter if there's still stuff you wanted to highlight.

[brashcandy]

She apologizes for attacking Hot Pie that one time, Hot Pie loses his name and is just now called boy. While he learns her name is Lady Arya he treats her much different than he did when she was Arry. Which she doesn't like. More of her rejection of being a lady here.

Good points. And it's when Hot Pie becomes just a "boy" that he finds his first home outside of KL. Arya has reclaimed her Stark name, but she's being led away from home towards more death in the figure of Beric.

[Mladen]

Character Development

In a pattern established from Arya’s very first chapter in AGOT, we’ve seen her instinct to flee or fight when faced with danger or a situation that she finds oppressive and unbearable. Since then, this instinct has been sharpened into a learned survival response, as painful and horrifying experiences have taught Arya just what it means to be a captive, and at the mercy of other people. This is what sends her into a “panic” and sparks her desperate attempt to be free of the BWB. Important to note - this isn’t “blind” panic, as Arya is able to call on Syrio’s training to calm herself and make her escape as clean as possible:

Captive. Arya took a breath to still her soul. Calm as still water.

Foreshadowing/Symbolism:

• Becoming no one: Arya’s recognition that had she remained as one of her “nobody” identities she would likely have been free to do as she liked, and her continued thoughts on Jaqen’s fading face and the iron coin, foreshadow her eventual choice to remain with the Faceless men. There’s very little power in having a name or ties to a powerful House. As she finds out in the chapter, these things can be rendered virtually useless in times of war, when allegiances shift and the hunters become the hunted.
  

Nicely done brash. I am glad you are not just here for Sansa :) .

Since Arya is a bit new teritory for me, I`ll begin with just few observation, and then we`ll go into some deeper analysis. First, just like common wolf behavior, when faced with danger, Arya flees. Unlike Sansa who pulls into herself, Arya flees. Both methods are useless against enemy, since Sansa is demanded to be seen, and Arya is quickly caught. It is also strange how similar both sisters are in not understanding their position. Neither of them realized they are captives until they were told so. Sansa hoped in Queen, and Arya in Harwin. And further more, both of them are missing someone whom they found annoying - Sansa misses Jeyne Poole and Arya misses Hot Pie.

When it comes to escapes, it seems that Starks can escape only if they think it through. Whenever Arya runs instinctively, she gets caught, but when she makes plan, she manages to escape, just like Sansa and Bran and Rickon. Running is good thing, but first you must smell the surroundings,

And now regarding foreshadowing. I think here she, just like Sansa did, realized how powerless she is even having powerful surname. Just like Sansa is being tossed around from one arranged marriage to another, Arya is tossed from one captor to another, and all due to power of their last name. But, she just puts hope in people who are supposed to serve her (her father, in this case). Here, Arya is no different than any other noble lady, who thinks that loyalty is something inherited with name. Luckily for her, Arya immediately understands how wrong she was, and she bends to Harwin but quietly still resists him. And in the last line of the chapter, we see how similar Stark sisters are. Wild or tame, a wolf is a wolf, and it`ll run on first given occasion.

[Daphne23]

I only have a couple of observations on this chapter after brashcandy's very thorough analysis:

Hot Pie was stupid and craven, but he'd been with her all the way from King's Landing and she'd gotten used to him.

I've been continually frustrated with Arya's attitude towards Hot Pie, and to a lesser extent, Gendry, throughout this re-read. To take this sentence, it seems evident to me, at any rate, that HP is neither stupid nor craven, and I don't understand why Arya has formed such a simplistic impression of him. She is usually shrewd at judging people, or at least at predicting their actions, but this type of assessment does make me worry that she is as yet unable to make deeper character assessments which go beyond analysing the immediate situation. Perhaps this is deliberate, emphasising how Arya lives from hand to mouth and has never really had a chance (except when she was in Harrenhal, when she did size up the situation well) to grasp the bigger picture. Or to be more charitable, perhaps this is also a manifestation of her age and trauma - we can see that HP is a scared little boy who has done well given the circumstances, but that isn't an idea that's available to Arya - if she starts feeling sorry for him she will start feeling sorry for herself, and that could lead to a breakdown of her assumed identities towards being a 'little girl' again, which we see in this chapter that she views as a threat. In the long run, I wonder if this will limit Arya's powers of analysis or if she will become increasingly detached from situations as she is more and more alienated, and hence will view them more dispassionately.

"Lord Beric always gives them a trial, you know that."

Jumping ahead slightly, so I won't say too much here, but I'm interested in Arya's views on justice, and I think it will be fascinating to trace this thread through her interactions with the BwB, who rely on a legalistic framework but in reality, don't dispense justice at all.

[conon394]

I've been continually frustrated with Arya's attitude towards Hot Pie, and to a lesser extent, Gendry, throughout this re-read. To take this sentence, it seems evident to me, at any rate, that HP is neither stupid nor craven, and I don't understand why Arya has formed such a simplistic impression of him. She is usually shrewd at judging people, or at least at predicting their actions, but this type of assessment does make me worry that she is as yet unable to make deeper character assessments which go beyond analysing the immediate situation. Perhaps this is deliberate, emphasising how Arya lives from hand to mouth and has never really had a chance (except when she was in Harrenhal, when she did size up the situation well) to grasp the bigger picture. Or to be more charitable, perhaps this is also a manifestation of her age and trauma - we can see that HP is a scared little boy who has done well given the circumstances, but that isn't an idea that's available to Arya - if she starts feeling sorry for him she will start feeling sorry for herself, and that could lead to a breakdown of her assumed identities towards being a 'little girl' again, which we see in this chapter that she views as a threat. In the long run, I wonder if this will limit Arya's powers of analysis or if she will become increasingly detached from situations as she is more and more alienated, and hence will view them more dispassionately.

I have to disagree here. Hotpie has makes any number of bad decisions - Aryra is one of those who correctly realize they they cannot yield to the Lannister raiders or at least not to any advantage. She correctly judges what the Mummers taking over Harrinhall will mean - not Hotpie or Gendry. Hotpie stays at the first place he feels safe ASAP, but ho secure is he? How safe was the Saltpans, or the Inn. The Lighting lord only has a few men and they cannot be everywhere. The only really poor choice based only on emotion/simplistic desire she makes is not accepting the obviously correct assessment the Hound makes about the Red Wedding as it happens.

Let's take your key comment by Aryra

it seems evident to me, at any rate, that HP is neither stupid nor craven

In fact that is exactly what he is Stupid and Craven - he surrendered at the village, he stays anywhere he finds a kitchen job - he would be dead and footless but for Aryra. He was a strutting bully when he though he could and was mistaken, and even Gendry is concerned that he is likely to slip and say what Aryra was yelling in battle.

[Cas Stark]

I'm not sure what the rules are on these threads. But, I will say that I think Hot Pie is stupid and craven. If it wasn't for Arya he would probably have died at the first attack by Lorch's men.

I will agree that she doesn't listen to Gendry, who gives her reasons for not wanting to do what she wants him to do, and should have proven to her that he is a good resource whose ideas shouldn't be dismissed out of hand only because they don't track with her own.

[Ragnorak]

Nice job, Brash.

Regarding Hot Pie, he's a baker not a warrior. I think Daphne23's point (forgive me if I'm wrong) was that Arya has manifested the type of insight into other characters that would recognize this. For Hot Pie it requires tremendous bravery and loyalty to his friends to steal food from Harrenhal and escape with them to begin with. There's something very endearing about Hot Pie's ability to retain more of his childhood innocence and delight in a song on the road despite all that they've seen. His story prior to joining Yoren isn't as traumatic as Arya's but he's seen most of the same things she has since they've met.

Arya is trying to form a pack and her survival mode expects Hot Pie to be a wolf which just isn't who he is. If Hot Pie were a baker's son at Winterfell I imagine he and Arya would be fast friends and she'd appreciate him for who and what he was, even delight in the baking secrets of what made his tarts and cakes so much better. I'm reminded of Jon's visit to Aemon to convince him to make Sam a steward with the lesson about the maester's chain. Hot Pie isn't a steel link forged for battle but he is a valuable link. Arya's world has just shrunk to survival and steel is all that matters right now.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

I agree that Hot Pie is out of place and that leads to a bad character assessment.

Think about where Hot Pie and Gendry were headed originally. To the Wall.

Yes, I know he would've been a steward, in the kitchens, where he would've done fine, however, at the Wall everyone is trained in arms.

so luckily for him, they don't make it there.

Hot Pie and Gendry found their roles at Harrenhall, they went with her, Hot Pie again finds a suitable place for himself, where he can help. He can make bread better than the people running the inn.

Yes castles might seem safe to her, but how safe are common folk once the castle is under siege?

[Cas Stark]

It's an interesting point though, that in general, Arya is extremely perceptive about her surroundings and everyone she encounters, she 'sees with her eyes'. But, in situations where she has an immediate want or frustration, like with Hot Pie and Gendry, she allows that perception to go out the window and simply gets angry.