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About Envie

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  1. Spoilers: For the Watch

    This is a very interesting fan theory I hadn't thought that far ahead on. In order for the scene to have the most impact, it would make sense for it to be members of the Night's Watch Jon trusted - and there aren't many of those left other than Sam since they never introduced many of the NW characters and killed off Pyp and Grenn. :(
  2. [Book Spoilers] EP407 Discussion

    I'm really surprised how critical some are being in this episode's feedback... stunned really. I thought the episode was phenomenal. Easily one of the best this season really... The depth of emotion in nearly all of the actors (except maybe Gregor Clegane and who cares, he's just a giant evil guy with a giant sword) - pretty much all were spot on perfect. Oberyn / Tyrion scene blew me away... I cried like a baby. I cried for baby Tyrion who knew nothing but torment his whole life from Cersei and pretty much everyone except his brother who protected him. I cried for Elia and her children and the horrific way they died. I cried for Oberyn - because his vengeance is so lost and wasted. :( ... The look of hope in Tyrion's eyes at that moment when Oberyn said he would be his champion. I cried for that lost hope. Every other scene was awesome too - even the weird Mel / Selyse scene. I liked the "Only Cat" scene even without the trademark two words being said - who cares, the moment was still very intense and well done. This whole episode seemed to be about relationships between two people who were somewhat adversary yet partnered by fate ... did anyone notice that? LOVED IT. I even loved Littlefinger, funny batman villain voice and all. I love him!
  3. I had to go back and re-watch that scene where Olenna spoke to Sansa and fiddled with her hair ... then there it was, yep - she briefly fiddled with the necklace as well. Next cut to sansa's face, you see the missing gem on the right side by her collar bone and edge of her dress. Boom.
  4. It's true, Loras is quite good at the game and managed to remain popular because of his jousting skills and has oodles more personality than his elder male Tyrell counterparts. Perhaps the image of the older men being big oafs was just part of the rose illusion too, it's hard to tell with so few details about them given in the books. We have Lady Olenna's outspoken opinions and not much else. What's key important to me is that we're given some insight in these scenes that we did not get in the books. While yes, certain details and characters have been changed a lot, most of the major plots have remained true to writing. Sub-plots around them support alternative views, again, since we didn't have POV thoughts from many of the book characters. If Lady Olenna reveals that she thinks her late husband and son are idiots, then that's the opinion viewers are getting, leaving everyone to suspect her involvement because she herself admits she's 'far more interesting then the rest of them' and Margaery has already clearly displayed complete willingness to do whatever it takes to become Queen (from season 3 with Renly). Doing whatever it takes even risking her own brother's life, to appease an insanely dangerous boy king like Joffrey is definitely clear indication that assassination is not off the table for them at all.
  5. That is probably exactly the intentions. We may be reading too much into it - maybe it was just a simple scene to show she was capable of being more politcally savvy than Sansa who was innocent and victimized. I think the scene was far more complex then that and that's why I keep writing a lot about it. The forshadowing and predictions revealed are far better hints than we ever got in the books.
  6. Thank you Mladen and I agree - the scene could very well have played out similarly in the books if we'd had a POV from either characters. Margaery doesn't seem that scheming in in the book only because we only hear of her from other characters perspectives and they have no idea. It's not obvious until we hear through Sansa that the Tyrells are very crafty and clever at all (well the women are anyways). The writers of the series took this and ran with it flawlessly. [ Yes! Exactly. I think too many people missed the point that Joffrey very much already knew about Renly and Loras. He's lived at court all his life and he heard the usual gossip everyone else did. Why else would he already have plans to make it punishable by death if he hadn't already heard? To me, that scene is very much about Joffrey testing Margaery's loyalty and Margaery passing with flying colors (even though she's lying) ... so much so that by the end scene where he's holding her and the crossbow, we get to see just how deviant his sexual nature is - he's only turned on by sadistic controlled violence. Margaery knew this because of Sansa's confessions and knew how to play him. Olenna and Margaery already know at this point that it does not matter whether or not Joffrey is a monster or not because they're already making plans to eliminate him regardless so Margaery's support (lie) of Joffrey's desire to kill all 'degenerates' even if it includes her brother doesn't matter - she doesn't think he's really in any danger since they don't intend for Joffrey to remain king. By saying "Pity" and eye-rolling at the end of the luncheon with Sansa, viewers are clued in to the fact they don't really care if Joffrey's a bad king or a good king. They would prefer a kind hearted person, easier to manipulate (like the male Tyrells are apparently) but since he's not, they have to go another route to overcome the political obstacle.
  7. Give the scene a second watch, that's what I did. I tend to miss a lot the first time I watch an episode because I'm so excited to see everything happening all at once and how cool everything looks that I don't analyze it well until I watch it again with a more critical eye. On second watch, I have to admit, Joffrey's demeanor and extraordinarily dark sadistic lust was chilling. Give it another go!
  8. Oh well there I go, making assumptions - my apologies! Thank you! I haven't been on the forums here for a long while, and I'm happy to debate the merits of the show again this season. I'm a huge fan of the books, but I really do enjoy seeing how the writers of the show have interpreted and re-written a lot of scenes that weren't in the books but really do help the show version tell the story in a better way. I felt this scene between Margaery and Joffrey was one of the best to date because of how powerfully well done the exchange and play of emotions were. It's this level of character portrayal that made the books so gripping and I really do believe for the most part (with a few exceptions like Catlyn and maybe Littlefinger) all of the characters are being portrayed really spot on.
  9. Yay, I just did! The interwebs are difficult for reading sarcasm but since you said dissertation I have to suspect you were being sarcastic. Fortunately I'm able to remain glib in text because I will insert the obligatory smiley. :)
  10. Also, in reading the pages of analysis about Joffrey's particular sadistic tendencies, I think the impact of the end scene where he's holding the cross-bow with Margaery was very powerful and ominous (as intended) but may have distracted some viewers from the way the scene opened. Do not forget that when Margaery first walked into the room, she was nervous and Joffrey quickly pinned her to the corner by asking outright what her loyalty / respect was for a 'dead man' (Renly) who was a traitor. He boldly asked if it had been 'no place for a woman' at the bedside of a known traitor and then point blank asks why she failed to get pregnant by Renly. Remember that? I think this was possibly Joffrey's carefully veiled threat of knowledge of Renly's (and therefore Loras too) true inclinations. The look on Gleason's face at that moment was really scary and well acted. Margaery falters for the briefest moment before going onward to parry the remark and recover by admitting Renly's particular perversions did not make him a suitable bed partner for 'making children' together and she then gave a perfect confession which won Joffrey over to her side. He was clearly testing her. Show Joffrey is older and much more cunning than book Joffrey. I love him!
  11. I really appreciated your views on this and wanted to thank you for such a great explanation. Since we have no POV chapters for Margaery or Joffrey in the books, it's somewhat easy to argue their motivations and personalities for the series. I think the creators have done a spectacular job of bringing both characters to life (as well as the fine acting skills of the actors portraying them). I appreciate these characters a lot more in the HBO series because I'm now seeing them from a different perspective that better displays some terrific motivation exposition for the Tyrells and Lannisters both. Also, I agree with you completely about the sex / Renly scene. I could tell immediately she was playing every card possible to win Joffrey's favor, even lying about Renly straight up while still alluding to just enough of the truth to show her innocence. This was masterfully well played and Joffrey ate it up, all of it, including the 'degenerate' remarks, Margaery's willingness to back his sadistic pleasures as well as any laws he would pass to kill said degenerates even if it includes her own brother was fairly obvious, even to non-book readers as just manipulative talk. Once Margaery learned Joffrey's true nature, thanks to confessions from Sansa, it was simple for her (with Grandma's coaching) to use that exact thing as a tool. And Joffrey is a very easily used tool.
  12. So many deviations from the books.... but so far, most of those deviations are working in favor of the story very well. I was really concerned how they writers would condense so much detail into short one hour episodes without losing the intensity we all loved in reading those details. It seems like they have an excellent handle on how to keep the story moving in the more or less same direction as the book while at the same time fleshing out some great dialogue and character development we didn't have from the book. The Arya / Tywin pairing has been absolutely phenomenal. There's no way it could have been as good if they'd kept it as it was in the books with her working the kitchens or for Roose Bolton. So glad to see Jaime Lannister back at the forefront of the story once again after a long departure from his part in it due to being a captive. The surprise with that long exposition scene was definitely a shocker and well done. Reminds everyone that Jaime is still a very dangerous man, even in chains. I am a Jon Snow fan (what female reader isn't, c'mon!) and I approve of the re-worked Ygritte character. I found her annoying as hell in the book, and was disappointed when he started to fall for her. They've done a much better job making her feisty and attractive than my impressions of the girl in the books plus her constant antagonism of Jon and how the Night's Watch are a bunch of sorry idiots without women ("With your hands then? ... No wonder you're all so miserable!") ... well that was just pure gold. I enjoyed the dramatic twist on the Qarth plot line... it was a real snooze-fest to me in the books except when Dany went in the House of the Undying, so adding this crazy drama is pretty good plot manipulation to keep Dany's story interesting. Pyatt Pree is insanely creepy and believable if not a little too powerful with his illusions. I also loved the interactions between Cersei and Sansa - makes her much more believable than she was in the books. A lot of people don't like how she's been turned into the worrisome Mother figure, but I for one appreciate the more realistic take on it.I think they're doing a good job trying to keep the audience tied in to her story...both pitying her, hating her and even admiring her at times. Tyrion and Cersei are now on the same page.. briefly. I think this was done as another illusionary tactic to make viewers think things may turn in favor of the Lannisters before Blackwater. Theon's story and scenes continue to be amazing amazing amazing. I'll discuss it in more detail i the other thread as I am too tempted to spoilers. I gave this episode a 10... the pace was faster, more intense and left almost every scene / story arc with a cliffhanger setup for next week...
  13. I also added a point simply for getting to see Gendry sweaty and shirtless, swinging a sword. Call me a girly eye-candy whore, whatever! (and we've certainly seen enough of Ros's snatch to more than make up for any weakness I may have for Gendry's body haha) I absolutely loved love LOVED the tense moment where Tywin stared at Arya and she stared back after delivering her best line of the season so far. A little girl and an old man can out-act and out goosebump everyone (except maybe Tyrion) in one scene and NO T&A necessary - phew! Jaqen is being played well. I wasn't sure about his looks at first, but his personality and style as grown on me. I really enjoyed Bran's 'management' and remarks about defending the bannermen's families. Shows he's definitely a Stark even so young. The Renly assassination scene was fairly well done. I don't understand why they decided to change it from the book however... where Renly was still wearing his armor and the shadow slit his throat through his metal gorget, which seemed like such an important clue to those investigating it...how could Brienne have done it that way? The way they made it seemed much more likely she could have stabbed him with her sword. Oh well. I wasn't disappointed with it that much. I like the Qarth stuff ok, its suitably 'exotic' enough. And I enjoyed the exchange between Dany and Daxos with his marriage proposal - it was well done. I wasn't really fond of the Dothraki men arguing over the statue, whatever. I especially liked Pyat Pree and he's as creepy looking as I had hoped he would be. Brienne and Cat's oath scene was well done as well. I gave it a 9!
  14. There's always been a lot of debate about whether Margaery was really a virgin. The show's just playing that up some more and the word of Renly to his queen may not be exact either.
  15. What does everyone think of Shae's revealing she was once a handmaiden for a "Lady Zurif" and she's not from there to Sansa? Is this yet another easter egg hint to a sub plot in Shae's mysterious story that we don't yet know? They hinted in the 'lying game' first season that Shae is someone very secret. Now this, it really has me curious! I loved this episode, wonderfully done - ALL scenes and actors were wonderful.