Bernie Mac

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  1. The commas and the word 'or' is important in that sentence. All three are not needed to be described as a 'nerd', people can and have described intellectuals as nerds before. No, I actually never claimed something like that all. Though I think it goes without saying that Sam, for the first couple of books at least, is clearly lacking some social skills though I think people who would label him a nerd would do so more for his (commendable) obsession with books. edit: and yeah, in the context of Westeros I would absolutely label Sam, Tyrion and Hoster Blackwood as 'nerds'.
  2. Except Robb does not have a claim to the Iron Throne, both Renly and Joffrey do and that is what Mace is interested in. If truth be told, even our claim to Highgarden is a bit dodgy, just as those dreadful Florents are always whining. 'What does it matter?' you ask, and of course it doesn't, except to oafs like my son. The thought that one day he may see his grandson with his arse on the Iron Throne makes Mace puff up like . . . now, what do you call it? Margaery, you're clever, be a dear and tell your poor old half-daft grandmother the name of that queer fish from the Summer Isles that puffs up to ten times its own size when you poke it." "They call them puff fish, Grandmother." Mace had far more incentive to side with Renly or Joffrey than he did with someone like Robb as he wanted his daughter to be Queen of Westeros, something that Robb does not have a claim to while Renly, however distant, and Joffrey did. Even doing nothing during war was a huge boon for the Crown as they could have sided with Renly and truly doomed the Crown or sided with another faction, but they actually do do something as Doran accepts the alliance and moved his armies to the border. Once Myrcella was safe in Braavos, he had pledged to move his strength to the high passes, where the threat might make some of the Marcher lords rethink their loyalties and give Stannis pause about marching north. It was purely a feint, however. The Martells would not commit to actual battle unless Dorne itself was attacked, and Stannis was not so great a fool. Though some of his bannermen may be, Tyrion reflected. I should think on that. The Martells, however small, have helped the Crown during a war and got the King's sister as a reward. The Tyrells are not going to get a better offer in peace time having offered zero support, they need to offer something to get a superior marriage which both Joffrey and Tommen are. Not only can he but the books back him up on this. The Martells were rewarded for lending legitimacy to the Crown by accepting the alliance/ Sure, but they want more and a there has never been a Tyrell Quenn, something that Mace lusts after. How do you figure the Vale? Lysa was adamant that she was not getting involved. Nothing in the text suggests that she would have. And with Ned still alive, and willing to compromise for the sake of his daughters and retract his words I am not sure how you can come to the conclusion that the North would have joined Stannis. They made an alliance during wartime and were rewarded for it. The Tyrells would have to offer the same to get a similar reward and offer more if they want a greater reward, which Mace clearly does. The Martells did declare for the Crown and they were rewarded for it. Stannis actually reacts to this news in ACOK "You have a passing clever father, Devan," the king told the boy standing by his elbow. "He makes me wish I had more smugglers in my service. And fewer lords. Though you are wrong in one respect, Davos. There is a need. If I leave Storm's End untaken in my rear, it will be said I was defeated here. And that I cannot permit. Men do not love me as they loved my brothers. They follow me because they fear me . . . and defeat is death to fear. The castle must fall." His jaw ground side to side. "Aye, and quickly. Doran Martell has called his banners and fortified the mountain passes. His Dornishmen are poised to sweep down onto the Marches. It is also interesting that Tyrion overestimated Stannis' intelligence on this one as he did not think Stannis would so readily believe such a feint would work. But they did declare. And if Mace wants to get something he too has to declare. And once again, they did declare. They, like the Tyrells, would have got nothing for doing nothing and may have seen rivals get the rewards they wanted. It makes sense if the Lord of the House was more pragmatic. Mace is not, he wants his daughter to be Queen so he needs to pick a side and a side with a claim to the Throne. On day one they had no idea how long the war would last. The reality is that it should have been a slam dunk for Renly, but he was taken down by magic. The Tyrells do nothing and they lose out 1) Stannis becomes King and the Florents become more dominant 2) Joffrey remains King and he marries Sansa or another loyalist and Mace misses out on his his prize 3) The Crown wins and the Martells, thanks to their small support, rise above the Tyrells thanks to their marriage to the Kings daughter 4) The Crown agrees a peace with the Stannis/the Florents and marries Tommen to Shireen There is ample reason for the Tyrells to act after Bittherbridge. Doing nothing, while the safe option, is not the ambitious one.
  3. This is hardly controversial, is it? In terms of Westeros Sam, Tyrion, Rodrik, Hoster and Marwyn, 5 of the 7 people he quoted absolutely fall into the category. The word is only an insult if you want to take it as one, but these five characters can absolutely be described as 'Nerds'.
  4. lol You are also forgetting how incredibly humble you are. And Renly as Master of Law and the Kings Brother has all of that in spades. It seems odd that someone as intelligent as yourself can not see that? Do you want to explain how being best friends with the Queen's brother is going to give the current Master of Law more influence and more access to the King that Renly currently has? No he does not. Not once in the books does Robert complain that the Lannisters control his court. You are offering a disingenuous argument here. In the show he does, in the books he does not. How much power do you think squires have? And this is the best you can come up with? There are three people from the Stormlands sitting on the the Small Council and zero people from the Westerlands yet the Lannisters dominate because they have two squires to the King, squires who are literally treated like shit by the King? Please explain how Lancel and Tyrek are more dominant in the affairs government than Robert's two brothers, the Master of Law and the Master of Ships? Citation? There is zero evidence to suggest any of Robert's Kingsguard got their position due to Cersei. Barristan and Jaime were already in before Robert was even betrothed to Cersei, Meryn Trant is a Stormlander, Aerys Oakheart makes zero mention of this in his POV (nor does Cersei for that matter in any of her POVs), Mandon Moore from the Vale. Possibly Preston Greenfield got his appointment due to Cersei, though there is zero evidence to actually suggest that. So so far your big evidence is squires and some made up shit that is not backed up by the books. You are not off to a good start. Nicknamed the dog. Hugely influential, right? Look at how weak your argument is that you have to resort to repeating claims you made just a paragraph ago. Yes. Jon Arryn is able to appoint a fellow Vale man, someone his wife recommended him, to become the Master of Coin. As we see from Tyrion the Master of Coin is responsible for a huge amount of appointments. And in the process, he moved his own men into place. The Keepers of the Keys were his, all four. The King's Counter and the King's Scales were men he'd named. The officers in charge of all three mints. Harbormasters, tax farmers, customs sergeants, wool factors, toll collectors, pursers, wine factors; nine of every ten belonged to Littlefinger. They were men of middling birth, by and large; merchants' sons, lesser lordlings, sometimes even foreigners, but judging from their results, far more able than their highborn predecessors. No one had ever thought to question the appointments, and why should they? Littlefinger was no threat to anyone. The men of the Small Council are responsible for the hiring of the bureaucracy of the Government. Both the Master of Law and the Master of Ships would have similar titles to hand out. Because of two squires and the Hound? Come on. And yet she is clearly not doing a good job at it. Under Margaery the Lords Tyrell, Redwyne, Tarly and Rowan all sat on the Small Coucil. There was talk of other Tyrells coming in to act as Grandmaester and Master of Coin (with Garth's sons taking prominent positions in the Gold Cloaks). The Lannister so called dominance is nowhere near that of the Tyrells or other royal consort factions. Why says the Tyrells were as greedy and grasping as the Lannisters under Robert? And all the examples I gave show just what real dominance looks like. The Lannisters are less dominant than House Baratheon is and at a similar level to House Arryn under Jon. And Tywin is sitting on his arse while this happens? Tywin was able to beat Ned to Kings Landing when Ned was much closer to Kings Landing than Storm's End is. And how does it happens months before? lol minutes? Making up bullshit does not add credibility to an already poorly thought out argument. Except Robb is clear that Tommen comes before Stannis and Robb does not feel that Tommen or Myrcella have wronged him. "That makes him evil," Robb replied. "I do not know that it makes Renly king. Joffrey is still Robert's eldest trueborn son, so the throne is rightfully his by all the laws of the realm. Were he to die, and I mean to see that he does, he has a younger brother. Tommen is next in line after Joffrey." Except he does not as Tyrion and the author himself make it abundantly clear that the only reason Tywin leaves for the Westerlands is that Stannis should have been stuck at Storm's End for months. "Both of them." Storm's End was strong, it should have been able to hold out for half a year or more . . . time enough for his father to finish with Robb Stark. "How did this happen?" - Tyrion Storm's End is a hugely formidable castle, and should have been able to hold out much longer, as it did during Robert's Rebellion when Stannis was inside rather than outside. And both Tyrion and Tywin knew that Stannis was a methodical commander rather than a daring one, and therefore would be unlikely to leave an enemy stronghold untaken in his rear. -GRRM He actually does not given that Tywin's force at the nearby Harrenhal, the force at Kings Landing and the Walls of Kings Landing should be more than enough to cope with Stannis' 21k. You are. Renly has a claim, it is why the Tyrells get into bed with him in the first place. He does not have the best claim, no one has claimed that, but when you say that Renly has zero claim it is quite clear that you are confusing the words heir and claim. The Tyrells and the largest army gathered in the war of the five kings seem to disagree with that. Well there is you problem, you are presuming that the laws you have in your head carry as much weight in GRRM's fictional universe. They don't, that is why he gets to be right. Well, the short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpertations, and often contradictory. -GRRM Renly was happy to reward his brother with Storm's End for stepping aside. Except he does not. Both his words and actions make it perfectly clear that he does not know. Why does he not share this information with Ned when he is warning Ned that their lives are in danger from Cersei? Why does he need someone who is the spitting image of Robert's lost love Lyanna if he does not need to tempt Robert to end his marriage? Why does no one come to this same conclusion, incuding Cat and Stannis, when he reveals his plans to marry Robert to Margaery? First of all he does not know. That is canon until further evidence comes forward. Second of all no one claimed he was next in line. Had someone claimed this then you would finally be right about something, sadly no one has. Unless they can teleport that is not likely. You do realise both Littlefinger and Varys have spies, right? Renly, to the readers knowledge, does not. Arryn was told by Stannis and they actually don't know, they suspect (and are correct), but knowing and suspecting are two different things. Renly claims he did not know, none of his actions make it seem that he did know so until further evidence comes along it is canon that he did not know. lol you repeating this does not make it any more true.
  5. Sure. That is why nepotism was rife in the medieval age, rulers needed people they could trust in positions of power even if it meant giving them jobs they were not the best qualified for. In today's age the word nepotism carries negative connotations but it was absolutely essential to government in the middle ages and before. The teenage Stannis, like Renly, benefited from nepotism when he was given the role of Master of Ships, a role he excelled at despite there more than likely being many better qualified men in the realm to do the job. Appointments due to nepotism (and cronyism) can end up being excellent appointments, Davos may well go onto become the Greatest Hand in the history of the Seven Kingdoms but that does not change the fact that this was not a meritocratic appointment but one made due to hiss incredibly close relationship to Stannis. I disagree with this. First of all Stannis is perhaps the most single minded character in the series, his righteousness is his defining characteristic. He does not really need someone to point out that he is right or wrong. Second of all Stannis and Davos have been pretty much separated since Davos was promoted. His 'moral compass' is back to doing the exact same job he was doing when he was a lowly knight, visiting nobles and begging for support. In fact Davos' lack of qualification for his role has seen the series see a Queen's Hand whose leadership role seems to be more prominent and in line with the other Hands of the series than Davos' current duties.
  6. 14-16. Brandon was born in 262 and Cat was born either in 264 or 265, she was 12 when she was betrothed so Brandon could have been as old as 16 when it happened. But as I pointed out, Ned is not as political as his father was portrayed. With his best friend as King and the Lords of the Vale and the Riverlands his in-laws he is likely under less pressure to have his sons marry so early. Maybe if there was an offer of another Lord Paramounts daughter on the table Robb would have been betrothed earlier, but as the most eligible bachelor in the North Ned probably was happy to wait for the right offer.
  7. Robb was only 15. Ned was not in a rush to have him married off just yet given that Brandon and himself were a few years older when they were to wed and that Ned is not even as politically motivated as his father appears to have been.
  8. Also friends according to my own understanding of the word. But I agree, Cronyism would be a more accurate description of Davos' promotion. I'm not really sure that is backed up in the books. Davos may well know the docks and the life of a peasant better than Arryn but there is nothing to suggest he knows everything about the city better than the former Hand who likely spent more time in Kings Landing than the adult Davos did. I agree, Davos is one of the better people in the series. My use of scum was more in how the peasants seem to be viewed by the nobility. Davos is certainly incredibly proud that his sons are elevated above the life he has was born into That is, if Stannis won his throne. If he lost . . . Everything I am, I owe to him. Stannis had raised him to knighthood. He had given him a place of honor at his table, a war galley to sail in place of a smuggler's skiff. Dale and Allard captained galleys as well, Maric was oarmaster on the Fury, Matthos served his father on Black Betha, and the king had taken Devan as a royal squire. One day he would be knighted, and the two little lads as well. Marya was mistress of a small keep on Cape Wrath, with servants who called her m'lady, and Davos could hunt red deer in his own woods. All this he had of Stannis Baratheon, for the price of a few finger joints. It was just, what he did to me. I had flouted the king's laws all my life. He has earned my loyalty. It was not my intention There was no trolling intended there, just to point out that Davos the smuggler did what all smuggler's did and looked to make money. Surely if Davos' reasons were altruistic, like you suggested, he could find even more worthy people than nobles fighting a war over more power. Davos' actions were not from the goodness of his heart, that does not make him a bad person but a regular person with his own struggles. As am I. I am sorry if I have offended you in the past, I genuinely don't recognise every persons name on this forum and had no idea of any past 'arguments' we may have had. But yes, please continue sharing your opinion. I have no desire to stop you or anyone else from sharing their opinion in this forum. Sure, as a smuggler. Is it that outlandish if I see a difference in the skill sets needed for the co ruler for the entire realm and a smuggler? lol you call me a jackass and then threaten to report me over nasty remarks? Are you serious? I don't actually recall our past conversations, but it appears from your language that perhaps, just perhaps, I was not the only one who should have been a bit more polite. I'm sorry you feel like that. Feel free to ignore my comments but there may be times were I respond to a subject and not realise who I am replying to. Please don't take any umbrage as I certainly don't mean any
  9. eh? Is this what Stannis fans really believe? GRRM clearly does not see it like that Serving Stannis has elevated Davos from commoner to noble (similar to the Cleganes and the Lannisters) so there is every reason why Davos is indescribably loyal. Take away Stannis' patronage and Davos and his sons are back to being common scum.
  10. Wow! The two of you seem awfully upset with the concept of others having different opinions to the two of you. Instead of being childish with your ad hominem attacks why not point out why you disgaree with the opinions you disagree with?
  11. Septon Baarth was a nepotistic pick, he was a close friend of Jaehaerys I and was picked over hundreds of more qualified picks and turned out to be the greatest Hand in the three hundred years of Westeros. Davos could turn out to be an even greater Hand, but as Stannis' best friend (perhaps only friend) he is indeed a pick of nepotism People in the fandom seem to think nepotism is bad yet before the industrial revolution it was the norm and it was the norm for a reason, it almost guaranteed a safe passage of power, Stannis is as guilty of this as any one else, he picks his friends and family over the best qualified. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, but to suggest he is a revolutionary because he picks a man clearly not qualified is clearly ignoringing the text.
  12. While that is true, that was only because Tywin had left Harrenhal and (possibly) would not have reached the Red Keep in time before it was taken. Something that was not known at the time of negotiation so hardly something the Tyrells can use as a negotiation tool. Tywin had enough strength to defeat one of Stannis or Robb but he never would have brought peace to the kingdom without further support and may have even lost the kingdom after having beaten Robb/Stannis and being confronted with the other enemy. The Tyrells absolutely have reason to want to get involved. Mace wants his daughter to be Queen The Tyrells and Redwynes heavily dislike Stannis who has a reputation, whether it is true or not, of not being able to let things go The Tyrells do not want to see the Florents, their biggest rivals gain even greater legitimacy and influence They don't want Joffrey and Tommen to die and for the Dornish controlled Myrcella to become Queen They don't want the option of Tywin beating Stannis and making a similar kind of compromise to the one Lord Florent was suggesting (Tommen marrying Shireen) They want to gain more lands.
  13. Did you actually read what he said? Renly, by the factor of being Robert's brother, has been given the Stormlands and sits on the Small Council, having one of the most influential potions in the realm. What more does he have to gain from Margaery being Queen? What benefits are the best friends of Jaime and Tyrion Lannister having that Renly is missing out on? Which is not actually true. The Hand's of the King have been Robert's two best friends, his brothers both hold hugely important roles on the Small Council, in fact there is not a single Westerland person who sits on the Small Council. And Tyrion's look into the positions that Littlefinger was responsible show that the Lannisters were not nearly as dominant as claimed. It is always important to look at who is making such a claim and Ned, bless him, is very clear on his prejudices on the Lannisters while having pretty much zero clue on how it should be. We have seen enough history to see that the entourage that the Queen for the last 18 years has had is not that unusual when you compare it to the Hightowers & Strongs under Viserys and his heir Rhaenyra, the Martells under Daeron II, the Tyrells under Tommen or the host of father of the consorts of Maegor and Aegon IV. If the Lannisters were dominating, and it really does not appear that they were, it certainly was not by much given how well represented both the Stormlands and Vale were in Robert's government. Because of the Queen you mean? Is there any reason why the Queen should not have some kind of influence on these things? And of course you are overstating it. Jaime was a member of Robert's the Kingsguard before Cersei was Queen and Robert having Lannister squires is hardly evidence given that Johanna, Tywin and his uncle Tion all served similar positions at court under Aegon. The Lannisters are the richest House in the realm, with or without a Queen they should be one of the most influential Houses at court. Nope, not even. As Renly can only count on some of the Stormlords. So then why does Stannis not get this full support after Renly's death? Quite a large amount of his force is from the Reach. Yes, between the three Baratheon claimants, not two. They still remain split. And I still don't see why Renly should support Stannis to usurp the Crown? Or why he'd want Stannis to be King given his obvious disdain he shows for his brother. No, not before Stannis sent out his letter it was not. And even then it looks incredibly opportunistic for Stannis' to send out such a letter. No, not really. Of the 5 kings only 1 king, Stannis, is questioning the legitimacy of Joffrey's birth. And it just so happens that he has the least amount of support than all the 5 factions. eh? Why should he do that when he has made it clear with both his words and actions that he knew nothing of the incest? And the Tyrells dont want Stannis as King. Why would they ally with him, a man they don't like and a man married to their biggest rivals in the Reach? Lords Tyrell and Redwyne are older than Stannis. Serving under him as King for the rest of their lives likely does not seem that appealing. Well no. Renly warns Ned that should Cersei get into power they would both be in danger, Ned, from Renly's perspective of the conversation, ignores this and subsequently gets arrested and executed after Renly has fled while a royal decree that Renly and every other major Lord be summoned to Kings Landing to pledge their allegiance to the King or have their lands and titles forfeit. Because Ned, like Stannis, chose to leave Renly in the dark he has every reason to suspect that he would share Ned's fate should he return to the capital. Yeah he does. You are confusing the words heir and claim. He has a weaker claim than his nephews and Stannis but he does have a claim similar to how Robert had a claim despite Viserys, Dany and their mother all still being alive. Yeah, this argument always confuses me as people seem to think nepotism is only about family when it is just as much about friends as well. Davos was an appointment of nepotism as he was probably one of the worst qualified people among Stannis' vassals for such an appointment and this is shown clearly as Davos is still pretty much doing the same role for Stannis, his messenger for support, that he was doing at the beginning of ACOK. His job has not changed, his title has. In fact Tywin, despite being Joffrey's grandfather, is a more meritocratic appointment than Davos given that he was actually the best qualified amongst Joffrey's vassals for such a position.
  14. But no one else is. Steron's in enemy territory with Robb and no treats his death as suspicious. What it sounds like is one of the most common death for soliders before the invention of antibiotics. Where did you get him recovering from? "Sadly, no victory is without cost." Maester Luwin turned to the Walders. "My lords, your uncle Ser Stevron Frey was among those who lost their lives at Oxcross. He took a wound in the battle, Robb writes. It was not thought to be serious, but three days later he died in his tent, asleep." I'm not saying it was definitely infection, but that is pretty much the description of someone dying of an infection. The wound itself not being fatal, but the infection making the patient worse, especially a patient who was older than Hoster Tully. Stevron's ancient by Westeros standards. He likely had only another 10 years himself, I doubt they'd be worried about him. Plus it should be remembered that Edwyn's theories about Black Walder being connected to the deaths of his father and brother is paranoia as we know it is Lady Stoneheart and the BWB behind that.
  15. He is aware that Cersei wants rid of him, something he tells Ned, so him wanting rid of Cersei is not just about making Mace Tyrell more powerful but there is also self preservation involved. But then he'd still be rebelling? If he is going to rebel why not rebel for himself as he knows, unlike his brother Stannis, that he is capable of getting the support needed to win and keep the crown. Worked for Robert while Viserys lived. I really don't think he was worried about legality as once King he can do what he pleases. He was also hoping that Stannis would see sense and support him.