Bernie Mac

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  1. Littlefinger was not a worthy suitor the daughter of a Great House.
  2. Most likely to build the fleet of barges that would take them down the Blackwater. He managed to rebel against the Crown and declare Renly King with out Tywin's assistance. He managed to reject Stannis' offer and kill or imprison men who were likely to accept Stannis' offer He managed to quickly accept the Crown's offer and get to the Blackwater in a very short period. Even after these events we see him raise an army to march on the Storm's End in pretty quick time. The idea that he is indecisive does not really hold up to scruting when we evaluate the character in ASOIAF. So one possible example 20 years ago. And the author is pretty clear on why Storm's End was important during the War http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Siege_of_Storms_End "Storm's End was not geographically strategic, but it was the base of Robert's power, as important to House Baratheon as Winterfell was to the Starks. If it had fallen, Robert would have lost his home and his lands... and two of his brothers would have been hostages in enemy hands. All important chips. Also the fall of Storm's End might have convinced many of the storm lords supporting him that the time had come to bend the knee. So the castle was hardly unimportant." So the author does not think this was indecisive. Look what happened to Robb when Winterfell was taken and his two brothers believed dead. Attempt what? Stannis has not captured the city when the Tyrells arrived. He and his army, many of whom changed sides at the sight of the Tyrell's numbers and the ghost of Renly, were outside the castle and swiftly beaten. Loras, Garlan, Tarly, Rowan and others are part of Mace's team. They would have crushed Stannis before he took the city as their prize. Joffrey's hand in marriage, was at stake.
  3. You think Stannis would spare Cersei even if he was able to capture both Kings Landing and the Red Keep before either Tywin or the Tyrells turned up? She was due to be executed for her treason Stannis only seemed to half hear him. "I have no doubt that Cersei had a hand in Robert's death. I will have justice for him. Aye, and for Ned Stark and Jon Arryn as well."
  4. Not exactly true. The 35k we hear of know 'pot boys and street urchins' being raised. What we know is that Stafford had very little time to raise his army and that he raised those types from Lannisport, not the Westerlands as a whole. What also seems pretty clear from both the descriptions of the host and Robb's own words on the strength of Lannisport is that the hugely experienced Lannisport pikemen were not taken by Stafford, like Tywin did not take the Navy. It seems likely that the important settlements, or vulnerable settlements, were left with enough soliders to properly defend it Which is crazy as we know Rodrik's 2k host he gathered at the Northern Capital was similar in comparison to Stafford's yet the suggestion that the North is tapped out is something you are adamant is not possible. Either both the North and West are tapped out, or both have possible reserves. Maybe he did and by the time negotiations were being made they were simply not needed. Tywin was relatively confident that neither the Starks or Arryns would get involved and seems to have been blindsided by Renly and the Reach. Maybe in that period between his arrival at Harrenhal and the Battle of Blackwater he sent envoys, or perhaps he had other alternatives which we will never find out about.
  5. They'd already come. The host Renly left was located in Bitterbridge (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bitterbridge) amd Tywin meets up with the Tyrell army on the Blackwater. They'd already came, they'd made their agreement. The Reach is the breadbasket of Westeros, not the Stormlands. And even if there was such food storage there, how would it reach Kings Landing before Tywin?
  6. While only GRRM can answer this with any certainty their actions and words seem to suggest that they would. They were already in the Riverlands, 50k+ armies don't travel hundreds of miles if they are not already invested in a decision.
  7. The Tyrells were on their way, already on the Blackwater before Tywin met up with them "you delayed him just long enough for riders out of Bitterbridge to reach him with word of what was happening to the east. Lord Tywin turned his host at once, joined up with Matthis Rowan and Randyll Tarly near the headwaters of the Blackwater, and made a forced march to Tumbler's Falls, where he found Mace Tyrell and two of his sons waiting with a huge host and a fleet of barges." Thrre is nothing in the books to suggest they needed Tywin's support to beat Stannis, their actions to the factions that did take Stannis' side "Perhaps he never reached Bitterbridge. Or perhaps he's died there. Lord Tarly has seized Renly's stores and put a great many to the sword; Florents, chiefly. Lord Caswell has shut himself up in his castle." suggest that they were firmly against Stannis being King and Olenna's words show that Mace was intended on having his prize "My son ought to take the puff fish for his sigil, if truth be told. He could put a crown on it, the way the Baratheons do their stag, mayhap that would make him happy. We should have stayed well out of all this bloody foolishness if you ask me, but once the cow's been milked there's no squirting the cream back up her udder. After Lord Puff Fish put that crown on Renly's head, we were into the pudding up to our knees, so here we are to see things through. And what do you say to that, Sansa?" It seems likely that the Tyrells would have acted regardless of Tywin. Stannis would still be defeated, and perhaps Robb too who may well have been bedridden while Tywin was marching against him. And of course there is the fact that a messenger could still have reached Tywin regardless of Edmure's actions and he could still have made Kings Landing. Robb was desperate to get the Freys on side and needed a sacrificial lamb, Edmure was that lamb and he needed to feel guilty enough to not only accept a Frey bride but to marry her as quickly as possible. Robb, who had no idea that the Tyrells were even an option, could not possibly know what they would or would not have done. Yet Edmure gets blamed regardless. Tommen is safe at Rosby
  8. Of course he would, it would be suicidal not to. Look at exactly what happened during the Dance of the Dragons when the too many Westerland soldiers were in the Riverlands, Lannisport and other settlements were ruthlessly sacked and plundered by an opportunistic enemy. Robb himself makes it quite cleat that he does not have the strength to take Lannisport and Casterly Rock, sneaks past the Golden Tooth and the only two castles he takes is the Crag, ruled by an almost destitute House, and Ashemark located inland that it should not be a threat from the Ironborn to the West and should be adequately protected by the Golden Tooth to the East. And I'm just going to point out that your argument was not that most of his soldiers had gone with him, which I agree with, but "This clearly means there are very few men left if any" which seems highly implausible and using House Westerling as your example is just utterly flawed given the very pertinent information we are given about them. No, it actually does not as these born and raised Westerland Knights and Master of Arms under the leadership of the Westerlings, might not be as willing to sacrafice their lands and give up their homes and families to join up with Robb. And of course, we are told House Westerling have been forced to sell lands. They may not have had many levies to call upon in the first place, they are certainly not going to be a useful example for the likes of Crakehall, Banefort, Farman, Serrett, Brax, Lydden, Prester and Lefford. Of course gold comes into it. Gold allows a Lord to have a larger percent of his vassals trained and equipped than a poorer lord. This is just basic common sense, richer lands will be able to call up more levies. Gold also means a land is less dependent on keeping farmers in the field during war than a poorer realm. eh? Of course it matters. The Westerlings are going to be in the bottom tier of Westerland Lords and the people they can call upon. Pointing out that the almost destitute Westerlings can only convince 50 of their vassals to turn traitor and abandon their Homeland is evidence that the West has very few men left is just poor analysis.
  9. That region is the richest and one the three most densely populated reams. Not sure why the Westerlands having a high amount of Knights would be especially shocking. The Lannisport City Guard, described as being the best in the realm, seems to remain at Lannisport. It is only the Green boys of the city, as well as available sellswords, that join Stafford's untrained and unarmed host. I'm really not sure how this is the last resort, Stafford raised a host up as quickly as possible and did so without disturbing the garrisons of other prominent settlements that would be potentially under threat from the Coast, Riverland or Reach border. The Westerlings are an extremely poor choice to base the strength of the entire Westerlands on. The Westerlings were old blood, but they had more pride than power. It would not surprise him to learn that Lady Sybell had brought more wealth to the marriage than her highborn husband. The Westerling mines had failed years ago, their best lands had been sold off or lost, and the Crag was more ruin than stronghold There is no real reason why they would have the need or the resources to have a particularly large garrison, they, despite their Lordly status, would be a bottom tier House ."Dare I ask how many swords come with your bride, Robb?" "Fifty. A dozen knights." His voice was glum, as well it might be. Did zero men die when Robb took the castle? Did the Westerlings totally abandon their castle of any military to defend it? Did every Westerling soldier just give up on their home and family to join the North? We are looking at a higher number than 50, perhaps double it, maybe even more. They contribute 3,000 to Stannis, the five thousand you are thinking of includes Stannis 1,400, the survivors of Rodrik's two thousand and others from the nearby Northern lords lands. We also know that the Mountain Clans did send men with Robb as there are Norreys and Burleys figthing on the fords.
  10. He asked him once, when he was a grown ass adult rather than the teenager who idolised the Kingaguard, who had just lost his sword hand and had years of shame for being the most dishonourable Kingsguard in the history of its tradition. It is not crazy to think that a one handed Kingsguard member would not jump at the chance to become the Lord of the Westerlands. If anything Jaime rejecting it is the crazy one. He make him his heir in AGOT when he positions him as his stand in Hand. It is only after Tyrion threatens the lives of his grandchildren does he tell him that he will never inherit the Rock. Thanks to Tyrion's awful relations with the current Queen mother and the current King it is not hard to see why Tywin needed to enforce this ruler if he truly meant it. He thought he'd be able to convince his first born to reclaim his position. I don't think that is crazy. It didnt happen under his own nose. The twins were split apart from the age of 9, often being in different realms. Thogh how does this make him crazy? Robert is certainly not crazy and he lived under the same roof as then without noticing it. Citation? The first thing he literally tells Tyrion after making him his Hand was not to trust Littlefinger and Varys, Tyrion did not spot it, he was told by Cat that Littlefinger had framed him, something he does not share with his father and something he ignores, putting Littlefinger in place of power. He chided Tyrion for falling in love with them, making them his paramours. When making him his no2 he asked Tyrion one thing, don't take this whore you have just met to Kings Landing, Tyrion decides to ignore his father, bring her, fall in love with and consequently be blackmailed over her while willing to harm his own family in a bid to keep her safe. Tytos and Tyrion both put their paramours over House Lannister, Tywin did not want to trust the fate of House Lannister to another Tytos. eh? He thought all laughter was at his familiies expense? All laughter? Come on, it helps if you don;t randomly make up shit to make a point, your whole argument loses all credibility.
  11. With the Tyrells it was a certainty. Without the Tyrells it is certainly a possibility as the numbers of Stannis, Robb and the Riverlands is not that different to the Westerland and Crownland forces. Of course as Robb never actually went back to deal with this threat. The North had already been destabilised with the Hornwood civil war. The Renly should have easily won. How is this on Tywin though? No one could have predicted that the Reach was about to rebel at the start of the series and Tywin does not seem to have been in the plan to kill Robert. GRRM mentions that the Vale was split in its support. That would have been excellent as it stops Renly from rebelling. The Crown was only introuble because of the Reach and the Stormlands unexpectedly rebelling. Does he? When does he claim all this credit? And who is this middle tier faction you speak of? He had every reason to believe that he, the father-law of the King, would be able to be get out of serious punishment for his actions. When Robert had died he have even greater reason to figure that the grandfather to the legal and recognised heir of Robert would receive zero punishment. Renly was a wild card in this event, something that GRRM needed to actually make the war last three books instead of it being quickly finished in the first quarter of ACOK. The plot giveth and taketh away. She is a fickle mistress. When Tywin sent Gregor into the Riverlands he had no cause to consider that the Tyrells would be his enemy. Sure. Does Tywin call them impressive?
  12. This is a POV based series. Tyrion and Arianne believing that their fathers always hated them does not make it so. Tywin was hugely disappointed in Tyrion, both for reasons that Tyrion had no control over and for reasons that he did. Being disappointed in someone is not grounds for murder, even in the medieval world. Thanks to nepotism Tyrion rose as high as any dwarf has ever done in Westeros or any dwarf was ever likely to do. He literally went to war when he was captured. Tyrion is one of the most educated nobles in Westeros, has had the freedom to do as he pleased around all of Westeros. Hate seems to be an exaggeration, especially as its not like Tywin is especually warm to any one else in the series.
  13. Tyrion was not arrested as Cat is not a Lord, she has no legal authority to make arrests. The King of Westeros makes it more than clear that this was an abduction. His son was abducted. And of course you say no one else would go to war over an arrest? Robb called his banners and went to war when his father was arrested. No, he was actually not expecting the Vale or the North to act. Tyrion takes some glee pointing out to his father when word of the North moving South comes to them. No, you are confusing the show with the books. Ned calls for Gregor's arrest in the books, the show invents him also demanding Tywin to come to court to answer his crimes. A Stormland force? It was mostly a royal one "Lord Beric," he called out. "Thoros of Myr. Ser Gladden. Lord Lothar." The men named stepped forward one by one. "Each of you is to assemble twenty men, to bring my word to Gregor's keep. Twenty of my own guards shall go with you. Lord Beric Dondarrion, you shall have the command, as befits your rank." Why would Tywin simply hand over one of his own vassals? Tywin instead sends letters demanding Ned put an end to this "Dark wings, dark words," Ned said grimly. "What of it?" "Lord Tywin is greatly wroth about the men you sent after Ser Gregor Clegane," the maester confided. "I feared he would be. You will recall, I said as much in council." Tywin is quite aware that there is no real evidence of Gregor's involvement and that Robert is unlikely to take a peasant's word over a nobles. And of course officially it was the RIverland army who invaded first. Edmure sends a 4k army to the Golden Tooth. It gives Tywin an excuse to attack. He would? When Ned argued over Jaime Lannister being a Kingsguard whose side did Robert take? When Ned argued over Jaime being made the Warden of the East whose side did Robert take? When Cersei wanted a direwolf put down whose side did Robert take? When Cat arrested Tyrion and Cersei demanded the relase of her brother whose side did Robert take? When Jaime put Ned in a coma and killed two of his men whose side did Robert take? Every time it comes to choosing between his inlaws and his friend he chose the Lannisters. In fact when did Ned ever get his way with Robert? Objects to the expense of the Hand's Tourney, is ignored Objects to the assassination of Dany, is ignored. It is pretty clear that Robert would not have taken Ned's side in this matter, what is likely is that he would have demanded all sides make peace. It is hardly inexplicable. The North has no Navy, settlements (in general) better ddefended and its army thousands of miles away. The North was the easier option, Balon is more confident of being successful in the North than he would be in the West Who was unaware? Of course he did. Joffrey is the recognised legal heir, them rebelling is unexpected
  14. The Reach? Of course it would. Do you think if he married a Glover it would piss off the North? The Reach would have been more than OK with the heir of the realm marrying a Florent noble. Men like Lord Hightower and Lord Tarly, who both have Florent wives, would have seen the potential benefits. They Tyrells obviously would have seen it as a defensive move should they chose to rebel, but the Reach on the whole would have been more pleased than angry with the match.
  15. Renly would have been around the same age as Edric when he was given the Lordship and we see how Edric was able to charm any of the people he met in similar fashion to both his father and uncle. We also see the respect a young Bran had while serving as Castellan, Renly did not have to negotiate peace deals, that was already done, all he had to do was get along with the surrounding Lords and win their loyalty. Something that he clearly did well. The King of Westeros needs that support and the Stormlands is their neighbour. Having a pleasant and nonthreatening Lord rather than someone who is perceived to hold grudges is better to build bridges. Renly and Stannis were simply better fits for the Lordships they were given. Robert did not want to depend on Renly to protect the Narrow Sea from potential attacks from the Targs and he did not want to depend on Stannis to forge goo relations with the most powerful realm in Westeros.