Bernie Mac

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  1. That does not seem to be true. GRRM explains why theres are more Lannisters than Starks in the current series GRRM:It's also true that there are many more Lannisters. It also has to be taken into consideration that the North has had frequent revolts and other such problems, that there have been rebel lords in the past, that they've dealt with the Kings-beyond-the-Wall, and the revolt of Skagos, and everything else that's occured in the last hundred years. We only have to look at the Greatjon testing the waters with Robb in AGOT, or his uncles refusing to help Winterfell along with a number of other Houses such as the Dustins and Ryswells. Some do, some don't. Same as most Houses. Which is not backed up by the books. Tell me, which Overlord in the series was literally stabbed in the back by his own vassal? I'm willing to give the Northern vassals the beneifit of the doubt and say they are the same as their Southern counterparts when it comes to loyalty, but the idea that they are more loyal is ridiculous for anyone who has actually read ASOS. There was 7,000 combined Northmen at the Red Wedding. Half of them were against Robb. And this was not some big surprise, Cat explains to Robb in the first book what his own bannermen are capable of If you turn your tail and retreat to Winterfell, your lords will lose all respect for you. Some may even go over to the Lannisters. The Northern Overlords, like every other, have to rule through strength as the mere sight of weakness will see their own vassals challenge them as none of them likely like being subjugated by a ruler anymore than the Starks do.
  2. Sure he did. Options were given and Robb refused to back any of them. At no point did he have to accept the Crown. People in power, such as Stannis and Robb. complain when about the responsibility when things are going wrong but neither was forced to be King and both could have refused. Robb threatens the Greatjon with execution. actually executes Karstark. The idea that his bannermen forced him to anything is just looking to excuse Robb of making a bad choice. The Southern Houses are less honest than the Boltons? Come on! This Northern propaganda is ridiculous, despite Robb being the only Overlord actually murdered by one of his own lords the same old crap about the North men being more honest comes out. There is little to no difference between vassals in the South and the North when it comes to their own ambitions and self interest. Some are more loyal, others less so.
  3. He actually does in the very next sentence. "Catelyn had good reason for taking the Imp—" "I said, I will not have it! To hell with her reasons. You will command her to release the dwarf at once, and you will make your peace with Jaime." Not only were you wrong about no one else seeing Cat's actions as wrong but you did not even bother to read Robert's reaction. The King does not think what she did was legal, he calls it a kidnapping. Both the Lannisters and Starks are wrong. The Starks abducted a member of the Lannister's family and Robert, the King, can blame whoever he wants. In a medieval society his opinion counts more than anyone elses and he thinks it was wrong. I'm sorry if you don't like it. eh? The King calls it an abduction. The King makes the laws, not the Starks. Ned didn't sanction the arrest. Read the scene in the Inn. Cat makes no mention of Ned authorising it. Ned is lying through his teeth and no one believes that he ordered it. And lets face facts, if you want to arrest the King's brother-in-law it is probably best to get his Ok before hand. No he didnt. He lied and claimed he did after he had quit being the Hand. Except he did. Dude, read the books before claiming things that did not happen. You would dave yourself a lot of pointless arguments. Cat is not the Lord of the Riverlands, maybe if Hoster or even his heir arrested Tyrion there would be some sort of case or if she arrested him in the North were she was left to rule. Only in the North does she really have the authority to arrest the son of a Warden, and even then it is a bit dicey. You made a point that only Tyrion's immediate family thought Cat fucked up. I showed a clear example that this was not the case. Can you not accept that you made an ill informed point? Except he was. Awesome. I am glad you decided to be condescending about this. "Catelyn had good reason for taking the Imp—" "I said, I will not have it! To hell with her reasons. You will command her to release the dwarf at once, and you will make your peace with Jaime."
  4. Are you missing the King's response, the person who decides the laws? "Abductions on the kingsroad and drunken slaughter in my streets," the king said. "I will not have it, Ned." Surely the King has the final say on what is and is not legal and he did not see that arrest as legal. Nor for that matter did many others. We hear Varys talk about the situation in secret and he does not think of it as a legal arrest Yet Lord Stark's the one who troubles my sleep. He has the bastard, he has the book, and soon enough he'll have the truth. And now his wife has abducted Tyrion Lannister, thanks to Littlefinger's meddling. Even Jon Snow at the Wall can see what her actions were. "Lady Stark is not my mother," Jon reminded him sharply. Tyrion Lannister had been a friend to him. If Lord Eddard was killed, she would be as much to blame as the queen. "My lord, what of my sisters? Arya and Sansa, they were with my father, do you know—" Cat fucked up. No one but her immediate family thought what she did made was legal.
  5. er, yeah and now he does not thanks to the Crown. I'm not sure your point here. Walder Frey was well aware that the Blackfish held Riverrun when he made his deal with the Crown. Where is it mentioned that Walder wanted this? Where is it suggested that this was part of Wader's deal? By siding with rebels they created a backlash. They were one of the main Houses that joined Robb in paying the Westerlands back in kind. They were screwed either way, at least this way they gained lands and a pardon. Yup. Not sure your point. Walder Frey wanted revenge against Robb, he achieved that as well as other prizes. Jaime did not respect the Freys before or after the Red Wedding.
  6. Not only will that likely happen, but Daven is now an even more prestigious match as he is now the Warden of the West. Not sure how that hurts Walder. The Blackfish does not hold it, he exited it during AFFC. While Amerie and the other Freys stay on. Worked out pretty well for the Freys. Before it seemed that Kevan, via his son Lancel, would have the most control of those lands but now there is a bunch of Freys ruling the roost. "You should be sleeping with your wife, not with the Maid. You need a son with Darry blood if you want to keep this castle." If it is meaningless why bring it up? Again, what does this have to do with Walder? I'm pretty sure he did not demand this to happen. There is no suggestion in the books that this was ever part of the deal. So pretty much the status quo of Westeros before the Red Wedding, but the Freys are considerably richer in land as a result.
  7. I will help If you are really convinced that every character regards Mace Tyrell as a coward then you should have no problem finding a few quotes of evidence to back up your claim. Of course he would have a reason. His reason was legitimacy, which both Renly and Joffrey offered. Olenna Tyrell goes over this. If truth be told, even our claim to Highgarden is a bit dodgy, just as those dreadful Florents are always whining. 'What does it matter?' you ask, and of course it doesn't, except to oafs like my son. The thought that one day he may see his grandson with his arse on the Iron Throne makes Mace puff up like . . . now, what do you call it? Having a Grandson as King is what Mace wanted. Stopping the Florents from getting power was also as incentive. He had twice turned down Stannis as King and when his forces butchered Stannis Florent and Crane loyalists his mind was set. Plusit is hundreds of miles from Bitterbridge to the Blackwater. Armies simply don't travel those distances with no intention of engagement. Not at all. Aegon has 10k soldiers and behind Storm's End and the Reach forces have been split in two, with hald their force heading to the Reach. Stannis was outside of Kings Landing with 21k soldier, facing both the 8k at Kings Landing and the 50k with Mace. Stannis would have been in a worse position, especially as his men seem to be less loyal than the Golden Companions are. I'm sorry, how exactly do you know this? A messaneger could have reached him from the Golden Tooth and told him of what was happening. We have no way of knowing yet you are treating your opinion on the matter as fact. It is not. You mean the sack when Tywin was already in the city? Do you not see the major difference here? Tywin got his entire 12k army in the city without receiving a single casualty. How many men did Stannis lose? And while he was winning he was not yet in the city nor the red keep.
  8. If that is the case I expect you to quote at least two characters who call him a coward. He outnumbered Stannis as well, how is him marching to battle against Aegon any different than against Stannis? Do we? We have no idea how long it would have taken Stannis to first breach the walls of Kings Landing and then the Red Keep. He would have won, we just don't know how long it would have taken. Tywin may well have had time to make it before the city was secured.
  9. How is Mace a coward? A coward would never have crowned Renly King, a coward would never have killed Stannis supporters at Bitterbridge or marched to battle against (F)Aegon. There is zero evidence in the books that he is a coward. He's pompous and arrogant. I'm sorry, but this is impossible to know.
  10. Except the Tyrells had already made the agreement with the Crown and were already on the Blackwater before Tywin met up with them. Plus if Edmure is told to remain in Riverrun what happens if Tywin receives a rider and simply turns around?
  11. Robb would have been finished either way. Cat points out exactly what would have have happened should he have turned chicken. "I do not know, Robb. What I do know is that you have no choice. If you go to King's Landing and swear fealty, you will never be allowed to leave. If you turn your tail and retreat to Winterfell, your lords will lose all respect for you. Some may even go over to the Lannisters." Robb either had to win himself or make a deal with the Crown (whichever side won) or hope the South was fragmented allowing him to stay in control. Once he accepted being King he was doomed. That is not true. They seemed to be loyal a Harrenhall, even referring to him as King Robb, after the Battle of the Blackwater. It is only after news of Robb's marriage do they leave. Only from the Battle of the Blackwater onwards. He married Jeyne after the Battle of the Blackwater. The Red Wedding, according to the author, happened as result of Robb's marriage. The Freys may have tried to get Robb to sue for peace and done so themsleves but their savage betrayal was due to the Jeyne. And of course had Robb not executed Rickard Karstark the Karstarks with Roose may never have betrayed him either.
  12. Perhaps they have and they have fallen into disrepair. Bridges are expensive to build and to maintain while the Freys have already got the best built, maintained and protected bridge on the Green Fork.
  13. The point was wrong. Robb was not the favourite when Walder joined him, the odds were heavily stacked against him and the war was just beginning so to say that "Walter's whole thing is being a coward who sits on the fence until he's certain he can join the winning side" is demonstrably false as proven by his actions in AGOT. Which other Houses are free to do so. Bridges are expensive to build, maintain and protect. Any Lord whose lands are on the vast Green Fork could have built a bridge, no one was preventing them from not doing do.
  14. Yo do realise that is wrong, right? He would never have joined Robb in the first place if that was the case as Robb was going up against the Crown before the Reach and Stormlands had rebelled.
  15. Who cares if Robb would find it acceptable, Edmure ,and probably the Blackfish, most assuredly would not. Giving away the Lordship of the Riverlands is going to cost Robb the Tullys and the Riverland Houses that are only loyal to him due to Edmure. He likely loses just as many soldiers as he gains with that offer.