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About Tyrion1991

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  1. Read them all many times over because of the politics and Dany. Only on my re-reads I skip a lot of Arya, Bran and Jon stuff. That is an inference. I could easily infer that Dany is the chosen one because she miraculously woke three dragons when an undead army is coming to kill everyone. But that is a theory, not a fact. There are a lot of people who would very adamantly insist there are no Gods or conscious force in the series. It could as easily mean that these characters are important POV because they happen to find and do these things. What you are really saying is "I have this theory that the Old Gods gave the Starks their wolves". The text doesn't explicitly support this. Zombies are boring and so are battles involving them. You can do a lot more with the likes of Orcs and Demons. Some would say that they are the highlight of the series and what makes it stand out from other fantasy novels. Yes the plot requires Stannis to lose at KL. But, whats important is that GRRM makes the conflict seem believable and real. You didn't get that nuance and depth or believability at the Fist of the First Men. What you got was a very by the numbers undead battle no more interesting than those in Warhammer. Only there they have Vampires and stuff to add character to the villains. Plus they don't just use zombies. You have ghosts, skeletons, spirits, lesser vampires, dire bats and other nastiness. Zombies and the occasional iceman is hardly a lot of variety. "Something stronger" is very vague. I can't say that I like something I have never read about. I can be sceptical though since it deviates from what we have right now and the tasters leave me feeling cold. I am being glib there. But its true. Its not just enough that I care about the zombies killing the characters. Dany getting back to Westeros to reclaim the crown is a lot more interesting a story than "Oh no zombies. We gotta stop them. Dracarys.".
  2. The opening sequence almost made me stop watching show until we get back to Winterfell. I thought it was that trite and unoriginal. The Direwolves and dragons have nothing to do with the zombie apocalypse. At no point has it ever been conclusively said that a character was gifted these creatures by some ethereal force to help them fight the Others. They are depicted as fluke random accidents and even books later are never explained in these terms. I have been in enough arguments over if Dany is or isn't AA to know that this is really ambivalent in the text. A lot of people are convinced that Jon is AA and that Danys arc is irrelevant to the War for the Dawn. I wouldn't conflate the zombie apocalypse with the "Northern Arc". That involves parts of the Game of Thrones. It involves the Wildlings. Stannis and Melisandre. Do you count stuff like Sam going to Oldtown. Arya going to Braavos. To me those things have nothing to do with the zombie apocalypse. Which is enriched immeasurably by introducing a deeply morally ambiguous story about Machiavellian medieval politics and the tragedy of war and power. Its a very complex and well woven story in of itself, even if you don't take a moralist reading of the text. Why else can people debate endlessly on how Stannis could have won the Blackwater if he had done x, y and z. You don't ever hear anywhere near as much discussion about the Battle at the Fist. They're zombies, they have more bodies, they win; next page. Zombies Apocalypse is nowhere near as interesting. I also care about them not accidentally falling down a well. That doesn't make a story about them falling down that well interesting.
  3. I didn't say that WoT was better than Ice and Fire. Its the best fantasy series I have ever read. But I don't like it because I enjoy "some ranger from the North" or boy mage brooding about zombies invading the world whilst being bombarded with cryptic and contradictory information about the nature of this threat. Or a magic system that is bizarre and isn't explained. I like it because of Dany and the Game of Thrones. If you tried to sell me the story based on the zombie arc and some of the magic I would never have picked up the series. I got interested in the series because of Dany and these things have thankfully nothing to do with Danys arc; its all about the two least interesting Stark characters. Did you really get interested in the series because you heard how interesting and novel the zombies were?
  4. Its called an opinion and I am allowed to like certain aspects of the series and dislike others. Well for the most part Ice and Fire is that series. Far more so than Wheel of Time, Light and Shadow or Stormlight. I mean none of those series have what I'd call a Daenerys equivalent; at all. You have the Game of Thrones, this cast of characters and in particular Danys arc. However the series ultimate direction is likely to push those things to one side and bring the weaker elements of the story to the forefront. As a political and character driven story Ice and Fire is great. As a world with a developed magic system and fantasy antagonist it isn't. That when compared to Wheel of Time the series falls short. Which hasn't mattered because that has always been a trivial part of the narrative. When it becomes the focus, that's when the story stops being the one I like. Why should I like or care about this zombie invasion that's going to come like an obnoxious fart into a good storyline?
  5. Yeah Iam aware of the Five Year Gap. Think I also read that Dany leaving the pit was meant to be her first chapter. Not sure if both are related. However, it's likely the gap would only have been used to Age up characters and dragons rather than major plot beats. So it doesn't really explain why Dany couldn't have made it back to Westeros during such a large novel. Especially since a lot of other POV indirectly shared her story. More chapters given to Essos SHOULD make it a lot easier to advance the plot; not harder.
  6. Its an Undead army immune to normal swords, never tires, never sleeps and is a limitless supply of fodder. They have superhuman strength. Its like World War Z only if the good guys had swords instead of machine guns. If GRRM is being realistic, then that cannot be beaten by a medieval army and he has not done anything to remotely even the balance to make our heroes decisions and mistakes matter. Winter smothers the fires needed to burn the dead. I'd be surprised if there aren't ways of killing or dealing with the dragons. Plus nothing stops them killing the riders on the ground. Plus Danys dragons won't grow big enough to be a factor against the scale of the host. They aren't enough to offset all the problems. If the Unsullied fought the Undead, they would die easily. If the Dothraki fought them, they would die easily. If they hold castles, they will swarm over the walls. The Others can probably do all of the stuff Bran can do.
  7. I was introduced to the series because a mate told me "Theres this character on the show you'll like. Shes got the blood of the dragon. Shes like Dovahkiin." Which is why I started watching the TV show and reading the books. If he had tried to sell me on: "yeah, these rangers wander into a forest and some zombies kill them", I would have ignored it. Zombies are boring. Dragon Queens aren't. Even in spoilers tags?
  8. One of the great things about GRRM writing is that you really feel like his battles could go anyway. I can genuinely look back and think about how if but for the whims of fate or bad decisions Stannis might have won at the Blackwater instead of the Lannisters. We can see how all these mistakes and clever ploys make the battles so engaging and entertaining to read about. Its never a case of one faction winning being a foregone conclusion because it has all the advantages. Which is why the Others can't win. The Others seem to be GRRM take on the impending greater threat. Sauron, the Dark One, etc etc. This enemy that seems unstoppable and against whom everyone should be focusing instead of their own petty squabbles. A lot of people get hung up on the "are the Others grey" thing. But most agree that in terms of power, the Others are the armies evil trope. They are powerful enough to destroy all of the other factions. The problem with GRRM adapting this trope is that it contradicts how GRRM writes his battle scenes and what makes them great. The Others will just win because they are more powerful. The game has been rigged by the author and the heroes has no way of winning. So they can't be held responsible for losing if its never a real fight, they had no chance of ever winning and in effect none of their decisions mattered anyway. If GRRM lets the Others win, that's only because he gave them too many advantages. Because he has the humans living in the real world worrying about things like food and water fighting a High Fantasy Undead army in the middle of a harsh winter that smothers every fire and when all the dragons are dead long before the series starts. Plus the Others are a Mary Sue faction. Think about it. All of the major factions have infighting, make mistakes, misjudgements, sorcery is a sword with no hilt, are ignorant of the fact and generally things go wrong. But the Others, in order to be built up as this great threat don't have any of these problems. Which is very unrealistic and High Fantasy. How come one side is living in the real world whilst the other is playing by the High Fantasy book? Its one or the other surely? A good indicator of this is Battle at the Fist of the First Men. Instead of this complex multi pov battle in which mistakes are made on both sides, you have this unstoppable zombie horde just butcher essentially all of the Nights Watch in a single day. You are never in any doubt about which way this is going to go. There was nothing the Lord Commander could have done to win the day. A huge army materialises out of nowhere and surrounds him. Game over. To use the obvious parallel. How come the forces of Ice can bring back millions of people but the forces of fire can bring back one dude? Seems a bit unfair. The reason other fantasy writers have an all powerful antagonist is: 1) To raise the stakes to apocalyptic. All hope is lost. 2) To make the heroes victory seem even more amazing. 3) To make a moral point that good will always prevail over evil. Now I can hear you all shouting, "But GRRM will subvert point 3!". But he can't make that point. Ned Stark had the ability to do things differently, he didn't lack for power in Kings Landing; his conscience got in the way. This way GRRM challenged the idea that being a good guy is auto win. However because GRRM is making the Others this unstoppable threat, well there is no moral point to this. They will win because they are more powerful. If the playing field was even and our heroes could have won; but pulled a Ned Stark then fine he will have made the point. But the game is currently rigged. All the Others have to is World War Z it all the way to Oldtown whilst winter kills everybody; then shoot a few ice arrows at them pesky dragons. Basically the Others wouldn't win because they had a certain world view and are kind of a mary sue faction compared to many of the other flawed factions who owe a lot to chance. So they shouldn't win.
  9. As in theres not a lot of them. Wights make up the bulk of their force. Hence its main characteristic is a zombie horde. They have a handful of Valyrian Steel Weapons. They do not have a lot of dragonglass and in winter will not be able to ship it to their men. Again a practical concern which the Others are not limited by. Realistically I would question how they can move a shambling horde of zombies through hundred foot snow and gale force blizzards. How can the zombies even see through the blizzard? Or, why they aren't decomposing or being eaten by various parasites and rodents as they advance. One side is being forced to play by the rules and the other flat out ignores them. That is what makes the Others broken and over powered. Lets say its Warhammer Fantasy. Empire versus Vampire Counts. I know that the Empires troops are better man for man to compensate for numbers. Not true in Westeros. I know that their weapons can harm undead. Not true in Westeros. I know that the Empire has sorcerers who can use destruction magic. Not true in Westeros. The Empire has stuff like cannons for a tech advantage. Not true in Westeros. The Empire can kill the Vampires and go for an instawin. Not true in Westeros. See this isn't GRRM being realistic or subverting tropes. This is him giving one faction all of their high fantasy advantages and stripping the other of theirs. That's not realistic and its basically just an unfair setup. The Others should play by the same rules as any other faction. How is sorcery a sword with no hilt, but the Others have absolute command over magic? Clear double standard. Why haven't the Other made any mistakes or misjudgements based on the fog of war? Why are they not beset by infighting and factionalism? Because they are over-powered. If they are over powered then our heroes don't stand a chance and the only they have lost is because the game has been rigged by the author; has nothing to do with the decisions of our characters. We only have two books. GRRM does not have enough time to introduce destruction magic and shadowmen into his world. I think Ashai is simply the distant source of fire magic and we aren't going to see too much of this.
  10. That's like saying in Lord of the Rings that the Nazgul were the main enemy during the Battle of Pellanor Fields. The most noticeable feature of this foe is its use of reanimated undead. The fact that it involves ice magic doesn't matter. A reanimated corpse with flesh on it is a zombie. Valyrian Steel can't be made anymore. Fires can't be used during a Siberian winter. If Valyria still stood and had a few thousand dragons then yes, they probably could be beat; but not by these guys. So its not a weakness if people can't exploit it. Our heroes can't do anything about the weather. GRRM has done a great job in all of his battles of depicting his battles as realistic, fair, believable and avoiding the "one hero kills a dozen men by himself" or "the bold charge of cavalry swept through the enemy host" and everything is all very well explained. It all quite believable and fair. But with the War for the Dawn, we have one side who is playing that rulebook and the other that is going full Wheel of Time on them. That doesn't seem very fair at all. One faction has superhuman abilities and can ignore all of the practical concerns like food, water, warmth and politics; whilst the good guys very much have to. They are very much an over powered faction.
  11. I've read all the Wheel of Time books and I play D&D, I love my epic High Fantasy. I just don't care for zombies in general. They lack character. Your characters can't interact with them. They are automata rather than the embodiment of an idea or concept (Tolkein Orcs=Corruption) They just exist to be this problem. In addition GRRM descriptions of wars have relied on giving a fair and realistic depiction of combat. That goes out the window when he makes one faction over powered and have all the advantages whilst making the good guys have to live by the real world rules. Plus I prefer when the magic is part of the world building and explained to me. Stormlight Archives for example. You start off oblivious but you slowly clock whats going on and I thought it was quite well done. I feel totally oblivious about whats going on with the magic in this series.
  12. Wights are zombies. A story about wights destroying the world is a zombie apocalypse. I think we should really know what our main antagonist is after five huge novels and over two decades of writing. More to the point, it doesn't matter, there are a handful of them; the bulk if the fighting involves zombies. Yes Gondor shouldn't have abandoned the Black Gate and forgot the threat of Mordor. GRRM political stuff and how his characters deal with that is what makes the series for me and a lot of people. The thematic point you raise is made in a lot of fantasy stories and so it isn't as engaging or entertaining. Dany isn't going to reach Westeros during TWOW if GRRM spends two chapters to explain and she has actual stuff to do and important people to meet, unlike the above mentioned character. Plus Dany is travelling a significantly larger distance. Which is my point, stuff like Aegon will have to be crammed into the last book with the zombies. Its the medieval times and keeping fires lit in a Siberian winter is difficult. They don't have flamethrowers or napalm. They only have three dragons which can probably be killed with magic and can't be everywhere at once. Normally a sword can kill a zombie in most fantasy things. These are immune. The zombies have super strength. If GRRM is using realism then a few thousand brave men with pikes will not stop that. Most fantasy series that have the adversary have huge numbers offset that by giving the defender a big castle or better men. They aren't better and the castles won't matter since if you have seen World War Z then you will know that such defences are useless against zombies. None of their mages have powers that are useful. Bran can see how badly screwed they are. All the Priests of Rhollor can achieve is to bring one guy back and fry an over sized pigeon. These are not Aes Sedai and the Dark One had a lot less Trollocs coming at them. So its a coincidence that they always come in winter and that it follows them around? Irrespective of their control, this winter makes travel, communication and forming battle lines impossible. It means they can't harvest food. It kills people who come back as zombies. It makes it hard to keep fires. It is their main advantage. Usually the main plot gets described in more detail than a handful of excerpts and chapters. It would be like if Rand had nothing to do with the Dark One until the last book; literally in Danys case.
  13. A zombie apocalypse is the most clich├ęd thing ever. The political intrigue are at the heart of the story. Them, the Houses and the story of most of our characters have revolved around them. It has very little to do with these super zombies that can't be beaten and which will stomp everything. I want to get to see Dany square off with the Lannisters. Confront Stannis. Treat with the Northern Lords. Face up to Aegon and Varys schemes. Obviously see some cool stuff with the dragons and how her relationship with any future dragon riders will play out. These things are way more interesting than "Dany burns zombies, but it doesn't matter because theres millions of them. Oh no, an Other throws javelin and kills dragon coz it has super magic". It will be an entirely one sided fight and either GRRM pulls out a dues ex machina or everyone dies. I have no interest in this aspect of the plot and do not care to see it since our heroes can't do anything to deal with the threat; so it isn't an engaging storyline. Its just an over powered faction that will win because it has command over the weather and can just mindlessly charge until it wins.
  14. Just generally, I really do not like zombies or undead in High Fantasy. They're automata. They're dull. We have seen them in countless films and popular TV shows. Even generic enemies like orcs or daemons, have a lot more personality and variety to them. Uruk Hai for example, or Warhammer Orks are very similar but you can infuse a lot of character and variety into them. Uruks are engineered and have cast iron armor to represent the industry of Sauron. Whilst Warhammer Orcs have that mad max vibe. But reading or watching the zombies is basically exactly the same as the Walking Dead or any other zombie film I have ever seen. I don't have that "wow they're cool" reaction that I get with other Orcs and Daemons in other fantasy settings. More specifically, there is a major disconnect between one of the main themes of the novel and what I as the reader enjoy about the novel. I am absolutely enthralled and fascinated by the Game of Thrones. But, they keep telling me that none of that is important and that I should focus on the generic zombies that are going to kill everybody. Plus, once winter does come and we get the apocalypse, all of the politics will end and the story becomes a very basic question of survival. Which would be fine if Ice and Fire was like other fantasy novels. Take the Wheel of Time. Our heroes in that spend a lot of time fighting the proxies of the Darkness and his agents. So the enemy is well built up and described to us. We understand what they are all about. Theres character, mythos and lore which makes you feel engaged and involved in this looming threat throughout the story. However only a few characters are even aware of this threat and even those which are, have barely been involved and we know almost nothing about them. This is because GRRM is approaching the Others as a writer of Horror would. They are these mysterious and monstrous thing. Now, firstly I do not care for horror at all as a genre. But secondly, this does little to distinguish the zombies from those of the Walking Dead. I don't really care if I am scared or don't understand these things and I am just a lot more interested in all the politics stuff. About which most of the series material has been selling to me. Plus GRRM has avoided explaining the metaphysical elements of his world, this makes the conflict with the Others not make a lot of sense thematically. Obviously Tolkein its a battle between light and shadow. In Wheel of Time its about restoring balance by sealing away the shadow. In the Stormlight Archives, we are slowly fed more and more information about the world until we start to get a clearer understanding of what this conflict is about. The last is probably the best example of retaining that sense of mystery without just being obscure and cryptic as to what is going on. For example Dany getting the Dragons is never explained and comes across as a simple plot gift. If every widow could wake dragons from stone we would be infested with them. Instead GRRM gives a lot of contradictory information, prophecies and ultimately doesn't give the answer. I could say that "oh she is clearly Azor Ahai and Rhollor has made her his bride of fire"; but then there will be half a dozen other things suggesting otherwise and implying it was just a normal blood sacrifice and sheer coincidence. To me this makes the magic feel more like a plot device rather than an organic and developed part of the story. I understand what Kaladin can and cannot do. I do not know what Melisandre can do despite her being in three novels. Plus powers are introduced and then forgotten about. Shadow baby to kill people. Uses it once to get Stannis to Blackwater and never used again coz reasons. Can kill people to make ships move fast. Great. Doesn't use this to ferry Stannis army out of the frozen north who instead march through a blizzard. Basically GRRM uses magic purely as a plot device and because he does not explain any of this it means it all feels very forced and arbitrary. Since the Others are the most magical faction this means I am really not interested in seeing them take centre stage and start throwing around powers we have never heard of and then get forgotten about when they would be irrelevant. Also, zombies in a medieval fantasy setting are too powerful, especially since GRRM is being realistic and the winter is killing everyone anyway. They also lack many of the traditional counters to zombies in High Fantasy. For example in Warhammer Fantasy, kill the Vampire and this breaks the enchantment animating the dead. You also have destruction magic and other ways of enhancing your own troops. Plus, stuff like the wall of pikemen holding the horde works in High Fantasy, but realistically this wouldn't happen. Pretty much every battle with the Zombies should play out like the First Men. In fact GRRM makes them even stronger by having them immune to normal weapons and making winter storms negating their weakness to fire. In Warhammer, a knight can still kill a zombie with a sword. Basically GRRM has made the Others impossible to beat and this to me isn't interesting because anyone can make a magical opponent which can't be beaten. Which means all the fighting will be one sided and not interesting. Why do I want to watch super zombies stomp all the interesting and cool factions in one sided battles where most of the army freezes to death because they have an over powered winter aura which can't be countered? That's just what they have shown us. Never mind stuff like magic, the Other themselves. They can probably kill dragons as well. But specifically, I really want to see Dany play the Game of Thrones. That, for me, is the thing I want to read about and watch unfold. I have absolutely zero interest in dragons versus zombies. Its a complete waste of a story arc and I have no investment in seeing Dany do that. Her arc has had nothing, aside from a few cryptic and bizarre visions and vague insinuations she is Azor Ahai, to do with the zombies. So I really don't like the notion that most of Dany's Westeros arc will revolve around the War against the Others. I have invested in watching her try to retake the throne. I do not care about zombie apocalypse and have been given no incentive to care about zombie apocalypse. So why does GRRM want his finale to involve a zombie apocalypse like World War Z?
  15. I get that GRRM wanted to resolve this crisis of faith and self doubt that Dany has at the end of Storm of Swords. It does make sense to have a novel start and end with this. But I can't understand why he decided to have ADWD end with her buried even deeper in Essos with the Dothraki and Mereen unsettled. Why not end it with some resolution to the Mereen thing and then her just marching over to Pentos? To me that makes a lot more sense. It means she could join the main plot in Westeros instead of counting sheep in the Dothraki Sea. This all suggests that he wants to spend another novel explaining the Dothraki joining her rather than getting her to Westeros. The only reasons I can think are: * He thinks this is cool and people would enjoy it more than Dany invading Westeros. * The Dothraki are a plot device to cut the Mereenese Knot. You have this super fast army that could sack every city in Essos if they wanted to and if they stop slavery then her enemies economy collapses. * GRRM has spent a long time describing all of these Essosi people and like in the Wheel of Time he wants them to participate in the War for the Dawn. Otherwise, we'd all forget they ever existed. * He wants more time for the Dragons to grow and is concerned about an unbelievable growth spurt. * He wants Dany reuniting with her various councillors and allies to play out before Dany reaches Westeros as some of these relationships are either very important or complicated. Tyrion, Jorah, Victarion, Quentyn's people and that's forgetting Marwyn and Moqorro. So he wants to set up Team Dany before the invasion starts. * He wants to give Aegon time to become King and establish a firm hold on the continent to oppose Dany. Basically do you think Dany isn't in Westeros because essentially the writer doesn't want her their yet, or is it because of some other reason? Personally, I am sure Dany going Genghis Khan would be cool. But we already got to see her go all Spartacus. I don't see the need for her to become a messianic figure for yet another people to lead in her quest to reclaim the throne. I also really, really don't like the notion that the main thing I want to see Dany do, play the Game of Thrones in Westeros, is going to be crammed into the final book and possibly even be overshadowed by the Zombie Apocalypse. So all that means is that I won't get to see Dany do the thing I wanted to see her do from the start of the series.