[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick Without Repercussion

[Miodrag]

Miodrag,

EW is owned by Time-Warner, who also owns HBO (well, for now anyways; Time-Warner has announced its plans to sell off its magazine branch; it will be interesting to see what effect, if any, this has on EW's coverage when it's no longer an official part of the TW media empire).

So, yes, he gets unique access that no one else gets. No other American journalist regularly spends a week or so on location with them each season and so on.

That said, I would not go so far as to say that he's the official mouthpiece for the production and that his opposition to the Stoneheart storyline is his laying down the party line from the executive producers -- these are probably genuinely be his views on it.

I tried to be speculative, not conclusive, and if I failed, please blame it on my English. But, I think it's probably a serious hint. Hibberd is making the issue quite big. This is possibly the first time he claimed something is a misstep in the books. If LS gets included in the next season, this blog of Hibberd's would look quite ridiculous. And he himself made the blog quite hard to forget. Numerous readers will remember it a year or two from now, and he's probably aware of it. That's why I'd guess he probably got some sort of assurance from D&D. Not an official assurance (at this point, maybe even they aren't certain about LS), but I guess the blog was based on something more than just his personal view. Especially with an information you brought up, it'd be hard to imagine Hibberd expressing his personal opinion - and such a strong one, at that - without any support.

[LadyStormHeart]

Anyone else wait until the credits were over hoping there was some extra seen with Lady Stoneheart after them?

Me. :bang:

[Cas Stark]

I tried to be speculative, not conclusive, and if I failed, please blame it on my English. But, I think it's probably a serious hint. Hibberd is making the issue quite big. This is possibly the first time he claimed something is a misstep in the books. If LS gets included in the next season, this blog of Hibberd's would look quite ridiculous. And he himself made the blog quite hard to forget. Numerous readers will remember it a year or two from now, and he's probably aware of it. That's why I'd guess he probably got some sort of assurance from D&D. Not an official assurance (at this point, maybe even they aren't certain about LS), but I guess the blog was based on something more than just his personal view. Especially with an information you brought up, it'd be hard to imagine Hibberd expressing his personal opinion - and such a strong one, at that - without any support.

It sounds like something D&D would say....Cat's story should remain tragic, so we will leave her death at the RW.

It is true that not everyone loved Stoneheart so there are a fair number of people who will agree w/this view.

[Kungsmurfen]

Nailed it :bang: :bang:

Yep. As someone else said: He looks too.. alive.

For once I liked most of the Dany scenes. Only one I didn't like was when she chained up the dragons. It looked weird and her crying afterwards didn't work for me. I think she has to little screen time with them for it to have an emotional impact.

I'm fine with the Brienne/Hound fight but I would have prefered Brienne not to recognize Arya. Are we supposed to believe that Brienne who's on a mission to find and protect Sansa will give up on Arya just because she didn't swear to protect her?

Stannis scenes were good but there seemed to be like 40 wildlings in total so his victory isn't very big..

Shae's death worked for the show verision but Tyrion had no reason what so ever to go to Tywin's chambers in the first place. Tywin's deat and Jamie/Tyrion conversation was so much better in the books.

Why does Cersei wish to tell people about the incest?

Fireballs and skeletons goes without saying.

[BearQueen87]

THIS IS HOW BR IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK!!!!

YES. This is what I was expecting.

[Chebyshov]

Biggest nitpick (rather than egregious issues) for me was Tyrion entering the Tower of the Hand. How did he know it was there? Why did he even bother? Was he hoping to grab a spare set of socks before his journey? Why not try and hunt down Cersei instead, who was a bit more proactively involved him getting him sentenced to death?

[Bridgeburners]

Funny how this was described as "GOT finest hour".

They even picked this episode for Best Writing and Best Prosthectic Makeup.

No way "The Children" are going to beat BrBa "Ozymandias".

It's funny that you mention Ozymandias.

Ozymandias had three scenes. It is considered one of the best episodes in BrBa, if not the best. I actually said last week that "Children" should have three major scenes that they put all its focus on (Jon beyond the Wall, Arya's departure from Sandor, Tyrion's big long and layered departure, which should have had at least 20 minutes on its own) and then all the little stuff sprinkled in, like the CotF and LS. If they did that, it might have been, like, 1/10th as good as Ozymandias.

So Children goes up against Ozymandias? Hah, that's no fucking contest at all. I mean, Children might win because of the politics in the Oscars, but anyone with any basic sense of what good writing is will know, in their hearts, that Children is light years below Ozymandias in quality.

[Shakez]

The mountain just lieing there and not suffering. Robs Oberyn of his post-death vengeance...

[Harle The Handsome]

But finally.... self defence. Self fucking defence??!! It's driving me crazy how much they're white-washing Tyrion. He is, IMO, the most interesting character in aSoIaF because of how morally ambiguous he is. Because he seems charming and easy to root for, but at the same time, does some seriously questionable shit that makes you know, in your heart, that he's a rotten dude. He's basically the Walter White of the series. I can't possibly imagine how D&D would handle a remake of Breaking Bad, and how much they would white wash Walter.

That as much as anything sticks in my craw. This is "Han shot first" bad, totally whitewashing the moral grayness of Tyrion. Of course it doesn't help that Jaime wasn't able to confess his part in the lie, Tywin created to get rid of Tysha.

[moey reed]

Biggest nitpick (rather than egregious issues) for me was Tyrion entering the Tower of the Hand. How did he know it was there? Why did he even bother? Was he hoping to grab a spare set of socks before his journey? Why not try and hunt down Cersei instead, who was a bit more proactively involved him getting him sentenced to death?

because tyrion is supergood und superintelligent and we all have to love everything he does. all hail tyrion the only good being in westeros.

[Cas Stark]

Biggest nitpick (rather than egregious issues) for me was Tyrion entering the Tower of the Hand. How did he know it was there? Why did he even bother? Was he hoping to grab a spare set of socks before his journey? Why not try and hunt down Cersei instead, who was a bit more proactively involved him getting him sentenced to death?

Yeah, I was like "where is Varys" "where is Tyrion" "WTF"? Just an odd choice without any dialogue to set it up, even perfunctory dialogue a couple of lines between Jamie and Tyrion about their father....but nothing.

However, in the scheme of logic fails and plot holes that the show has created, this is minor.

[Kyotsyu]

The thought just occurred to me, what if they left Coldhands out of screen just so they wouldn't spoil who he was? Even if they didn't show his face, they'd have to sign an actor. If it was the same as Benjen then we'd know or say Coldhands = Benjen. If it was any different, we would conclude the contrary.

[Hot Kidney Pie]

Every reason I dislike this episode have been stated.. They completely ruined Jamie.. Fucked up Tyrion.. The entire Bran sequence was absolutely ridiculous. I couldn't even comprehend that those N64 looking skeletons were supposed to be Wights.. They went through an awful lot of trouble just to avoid the inclusion of CH. The Jojen death was sickening. Leaf was sickening. The Bloodraven was just.... Did he even have the 'bloodraven' on his face? They tossed the 'Thousand eyes and one' line in there. Which was a nice touch. I just cannot comprehend what they were thinking or how they managed to botch that entire sequence so bad.

How could they not include Tysha? How? I've waited years to see Tyrion's rampage play out, and we got that? They gave us that? At least Varys won't just be 'hiding' he appears to be accompanying Tyrion for the time being.

Between the skeletons of the caribbean, dumbledore in the carcosa maze, and Leaf with the Super Mario skills.. I just don't know what I hated the most. I've never really hated any episode. I've disliked things they've done. But this episode was just AWFUL. The most underwhelming, disappointing episode in the series. During the final scene I was like no... This can't be... This has that 'final scene' feel.. That score screaming in my face that this is the 'final scene'.. NO.. This can't be! CREDITS

:dunno: :drunk: :dunce:

Worst. Finale. Ever.

[Bori]

Where's UnCat? Where is she?

Wheres Lady Stoneheart? Where....where...

She is with Vargo Hoat, Osmund Kettleblack, Moonboy (the later two should be fucked by Cersei, by the way...) and Bloodraven. The real one, the three-eyed CROW! not this is impostor. I don't know what this kind grandfather doing in that cave but if he won't be replaced soon, I'll pick one of his blue eyes out myself (and feed it to the goats)...

I also started to rage during the Brienne-Hound scene, but Rory's acting saved it, so I forgive them (they have to tie up both storylines somehow). Besides: how Arya get a horse? They lost it when they went to the Eyrie and she could not steal one from Bri and Pod...

I just hope we will get the "Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold" line during the funeral

[~DarkHorse~]

The mountain just lieing there and not suffering. Robs Oberyn of his post-death vengeance...

:agree:

[WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive]

What the fuck was that? No Tysha? So why exactly did Tyrion kill Tywin then, huh? Because he hired his whore? Because he was his judge? Well guess what genius, you chose trial by combat. You sentenced yourself. Tyrion had no reason to go look for Tywin without the Tysha reveal.

The skeletons and fireballs looked like they came straight from Skyrim. I was laughing like mad during the fight. And then Jojen died. What the fuck?!

No "Stannis! Stannis!" chants. Whatever, his arrival was still the best scene in the episode.

Shae attacking Tyrion. Way to make Tyrion's murder look like self defence.

[TheWolvesRemember]

The mountain just lieing there and not suffering. Robs Oberyn of his post-death vengeance...

:agree: I was just going to bring that up, thanks for beating me to it! Also the fact that his blood wasn't black. At least it didn't look black to me.

[Miodrag]

It sounds like something D&D would say....Cat's story should remain tragic, so we will leave her death at the RW.

It is true that not everyone loved Stoneheart so there are a fair number of people who will agree w/this view.

To tell you the truth, I'm suspicious of their understanding of ASOIAF universe almost every time I watch those "Inside the episode" videos. As far as I can remember, the most frequent notion of theirs is that this world they're depicting is so incredibly dark. Now, I know that that view is shared by many readers, but I think it's much more accurate to say that GRRM decided to show a dark and brutal moment, than a dark and brutal place. I guess that's why GRRM often says his world is not crueler or more brutal than actual history, or even modern times. Cruelty and brutality inevitably come in different forms in a world that is technologically not nearly as developed as ours is, but nowadays we have as much examples of cruelty and brutality as ever. All in all, it's the moment, not the world itself, that makes GRRM's world dark. Worlds and cultures and societies that are rooted exclusively in darkness aren't sustainable for a longer periods of time, and therefore they aren't very realistic. I'm of the mind that D&D failed to realize that. They fell in love with all the darkness that enables twists and shocking developments, but in the world they created I can't imagine anyone would trust anyone else, let alone that the majority would actually honor their official vows and/or unofficial promises.

If that's the case, you're right, D&D could very well think in binary terms: life = good; death = bad. And then come to the conclusion that LS is a "misstep" on GRRM's part - even though, at this point, nobody can tell will LS be a misstep or one more unusually brilliant direction GRRM took the story in.

Now, it could also be something more banal, like conflicting schedule or budgetary constrains (LS comes with BwB). But, if that's the case, they should say so, instead of letting Hibberd claim it's Martin's misstep and offer pretty ridiculous explanations. Which is why I'd bet LS is cut because of their odd storytelling talent. However, given how predominantly negative was the reaction of the readers under Hibbert's blog the last time I checked, it wouldn't be surprising if D&D now change their mind and decide to bring LS back.

[Conchobar]

Was not very happy with the COTF. There seemed to be only one of them, and they were not ethereal/ mystical enough. If you are going to put magical creatures in there, you might as well go all out!

[Red Tiger]

What the fuck was that? No Tysha? So why exactly did Tyrion kill Tywin then, huh? Because he hired his whore? Because he was his judge? Well guess what genius, you chose trial by combat. You sentenced yourself. Tyrion had no reason to go look for Tywin without the Tysha reveal.

Uhmm, how about the years of abuse, the endless humilation, the blaming of his mother's death on Tyrion, the kangaroo court, filling the trial with liars and people who want him dead?