LmL Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 I've been communicating with you only for the past 2 weeks, and only have been getting deeper insights myself the past 2 weeks. You are doing a great job! The funny thing is, I'm actually studying for a second bachelor, after my previous master... in physics (at the moment my subjects are astronomy, relativity, quantum and electromagnetism) True, but your norse myth tips were particularly helpful at a crucial moment.. perhaps more for future writings concerning Odin and the Yggdrasil tree in regard to Bloodraven and the weirwoods, but nonetheless i appreciate it. Also, so many people have made helpful suggestions to me that I cannot possibly remember who has said what, I just know that I am very grateful for all of it so I don't hesitate to give credit to folks. All of the essays from the forums and podcasts I listened to over the last couple of years (History of Westeros, Radio Westeros) were instrumental in sharpening my eye for symbolism and George's particular brand of foreshadowing, so again I feel like it's a team effort. Very cool and congrats! This says a lot about the universality of the human experience. For there to be so many overlapping themes, imagery, motifs, symbolism and experiences between GRRM's world, the real one and all of the fan's experiences - really takes a masterful hand.... kudos to you and GRRM! It does. I've been digging into a lot of Campbell lately, having only read Hero with a Thousand Faces man years ago. I really think George is writing modern mythology, in a sense, and participating in a grand literary tradition. Mythology was essentially cosmology for ancient man, right up until a few centuries ago, and George seems to have reproduced this phenomena in ASOIAF. Mythology is the way man relates to and understands the forces of the world in which he lives, and of course the language of mythology is symbolism. My knowledge of world mythology is patchy and incomplete - I'm far from an expert, I have no degrees, etc. What I feel I do have is a basic understanding of the relationship between astronomy, mythology, and symbolism, and it is this approach which I have tried to apply to ASOIAF. I'm working on a short (really!) essay about this topic specifically - George is writing modern mythology. BTW, I am looking for examples of in-depth symbolic analysis of ASOIAF to list in this essay. I have a good Sansa Snow Castle scene break down, Schmendrick's study of Jon as Mithras, King Monkey's Eddard in Wonderland, but I am looking for others. If anyone can think of such, please post it here. The idea is that I'd like to show people how George is writing whole scenes as metaphors by showing that others besides myself have already trod these paths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Congrats LmL! You did an awesome job and are getting the recognition you deserve. Keep up the good work! And please tell us if you hear from George. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Arthur_Dayne_ Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Congratulations, man! You deserve it. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'm a little disappointed that Russell Deitrick just said "it’s pretty unlikely that a comet would have the force to destroy a moon (it’s a small object crashing into a very big one)" and likewise "it’s unlikely that" this and "is skeptical that" that.It sounds like he just assumed that, given that a straightforward collision of the type L=L implied is impossible, splintering the moon in a very-low-impact collision so that debris then falls out of orbit irregularly over millennia must be the scenario, which then also directly explains the seasons (each winter caused by intrasystem meteor showers), and then worked out how unlikely that is. Which is interesting, but it's not really L=L's scenario, and it's not the only potential way to modify the scenario so it doesn't wipe out all life, so it doesn't tell us as much as I'd have hoped.I've mentioned that a comet passing ridiculously through the ionosphere and hitting the moon from behind and below might mean most of the debris doesn't come crashing down. What are the odds of that? I have no idea how to work them out. A hollow moon makes everything a lot easier--and L=L has thought of a few different similar scenarios to my hollow moon, which I don't think work as well, but which are worth considering as well for someone who knows how to do the math. And so on. I'd live to see what a real astrophysicist makes of those possibilities.Still, despite those disappointments, and despite the fact that I still don't think this is GRRM's intended myth, it's still very cool to see. Not just cool for L=L, but, as the article implies, if it gets a tiny fraction of the wide pool of GoT watchers interested in astronomy (or mythology or anything beyond TV), that's a pretty nice outcome. Yes, it's tricky because we can see that George is using some scientific or astronomy related notions in his world building, but clearly he's taken as many liberties as he wishes, so we are left to try to connect the dots. We know the Long Night and weird seasons has a magical cause, but it also seems the moon and comet and meteors were a part of it. That is why i generally take the approach of trying to show the sky-ground correlations, as opposed to trying to form a firm opinion of exactly how it worked. Of course the researcher thinks first from a scientific point of view, and he's right that a small comet would normally not cause a moon to simply explode, just as you are right that if such an event happened, all life on earth would probably die. My only conclusion can be that magic is involved, and that George has simply made the moon and comet do what he wants to fit the themes he is working with. I approach this from the standpoint of trying to interpret the myths and the metaphors in the text, and then trying to figure out how it would make sense, as opposed to brainstorming an exploding moon to explain the Long Night and then looking for evidence to support it. That's why I value everyone's input so much - I feel confident I am generally barking up the right tree, that George has hidden an astronomy scenario in the metaphor all throughout the text, but any of my individual conclusions or interpretations could of course be totally wrong. The main goal of all my essays is to point out the phenomena, so people can make of it what they will and help follow George's trail. And as you said, anything to get people thinking about astronomy and mythology is pretty cool. I know I have had a wonderful time learning a lot more about mythology than I did when I started this project. In that sense, even if am totally bonkers with all this, I have at least learned quite a bit. But if I'm not bonkers, then I think George is basically encouraging his readers to study the source myth from which he is drawing inspiration, which is really cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackFyre > BlackFire Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 an Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sciteacher Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well, the tricky part is that George has said there is a "magical explanation" for the long seasons. When I did my first essay, many put forth various physics-based ideas to explain the seasons, including an elliptical orbit. But then someone mentioned the SSM stating it has a magic answer, and that it cannot be explained purely through physics. I've got some ideas for the season changes for you that don't require magic or geological time scales. I've been writing them up for you and should have it done in a day or two. (I've been interested because Astronomy is one of the subjects I taught. Your theory is mostly solid, just needs tiny tweaks here and there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Awesome, I would love to hear what you've got to say. I'm self educated in anything beyond a HS diploma, so I always welcome the advice of those with actual expertise. Let me know where and when you post. Cheers! Loving the avatar pic, a lot going on there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You are famous now, congratulations, I knew you will make it ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well done LML!!! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That's very cool! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Famousnessness! Congats! Is there a cryptozoologist you could recommend? Specifically a crypto-cryptozoologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 You are famous now, congratulations, I knew you will make it ;) Hah, not quite. I'll let you know when Radio Westeros is asking me to come on their podcast... THEN I'll feel like a rock star... Well done LML!!! :cheers: oh hey! Yolkboy! Didn't see you standing there. Hey man, love your podcast! :lol: :lol: Seriously though, thanks a lot YB, it means a lot coming from you. As I say often, you and lady Gwyn are a big influence on me, in particular your Long Night and Azor Ahai / Lightbringer material. I'm happy to turn people on to your 'cast whenever possible. Yolkboy was kind enough to read my very early, and very, very rough draft of an essay, way back when. I think it contained seeds for everything I have written about, shuffled about in haphazard fashion, so he knows how far things have come. Thanks for your feedback YB, and keep up the great work (Battle of Fire, hooray! Nice job! BFish was great too!) Do you know if lady Gwyn has taken a look at my stuff by any chance? With her knowledge of mythology, I am certain she may have some helpful suggestions.Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 snip Well if we ever look at astronomy, you're the man. Thanks for the kind words (and support) re the podcast, and yeah i remember the early draft and telling you to post it on forums! Lady Gwyn is vacationing at the moment, I'm sure she read the early draft you sent... i'll ask her if she has any suggestions when we talk. Anyway good to see you doing well ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well if we ever look at astronomy, you're the man. Thanks for the kind words (and support) re the podcast, and yeah i remember the early draft and telling you to post it on forums! Lady Gwyn is vacationing at the moment, I'm sure she read the early draft you sent... i'll ask her if she has any suggestions when we talk. Anyway good to see you doing well ;) Your character-driven podcasts have a much wider appeal, but yeah let me know if you want to get all nerdy sometime. Most likely you should just keep doing what you are doing, but I'd be happy bore your listeners anytime with my astronomy film-flam. If you ever come back to AA and Long Night stuff, I might have something helpful to add. I've been asked to record my essays in audio form, since nobody really has 45 minutes to read stuff sitting at a computer these days. It won't really be a podcast so much as an audio essay, but I am a musician and do have recording equipment laying around, so I probably will do that sometime this summer. Oh and I have endless ideas for stupid commercials, let me know if you run short on that. Love that bit. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Famousnessness! Congats! Is there a cryptozoologist you could recommend? Specifically a crypto-cryptozoologist. Damn, you sent me to the google to figure out what that is. Yes, I know a guy who sells vacation packages to Sothoryos, I'm sure he'd be willing to hook you up with a little research expedition. He IS a brindled man, is that a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Damn, you sent me to the google to figure out what that is. Yes, I know a guy who sells vacation packages to Sothoryos, I'm sure he'd be willing to hook you up with a little research expedition.I was a little worried when I heard that no one who goes on those vacations ever comes back, but then he told me that's just because they have so much fun. Nymeria's Yeen colonists and the Ghiscari from 3000 years ago didn't mysteriously disappear, they just found even cooler cities to hang out in that aren't on the map, with an endless supply of lemoncakes, better wine than the Arbor, and the hottest nightclubs on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plectrum Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That's tremendous, man. Congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Powers Of Palantíri Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Congrats on the article!! Your theories are always very thought provoking, to say the least. You keep writing shit down, people will keep reading it, I will at least. Seriously Congratulations, well deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 I was a little worried when I heard that no one who goes on those vacations ever comes back, but then he told me that's just because they have so much fun. Nymeria's Yeen colonists and the Ghiscari from 3000 years ago didn't mysteriously disappear, they just found even cooler cities to hang out in that aren't on the map, with an endless supply of lemoncakes, better wine than the Arbor, and the hottest nightclubs on the planet. Brindled men get such a bad rap - you'd never know they were such refined pastry chefs from their looks. It's like you've been reading mine and Daen's mind at the same time - what's your secret? Glass candles, right? Are you... the Urrathon Nightwalker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 That's very cool! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: A TON of thanks to you in particular J Stargaryen, you've given me so many great ideas and text quotes... You're a pal. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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