Rhaella as Quaithe from Radio westeros

[khal drogon]

I don't believe this theory though I would love to know about Rhaella, one of my favorite characters.

It raises more questions like why didn't she meet Dany and Viserys when they are running between cities, etc. If Rhaella is Quaithe, that would ruin Rhaella for me.

[Ygrain]

I like this theory a lot, as it explains some mysteries concerning Quaithe, namely why she is wearing a mask and shy she gets teary-eyed. Do we have any other explanation?

Furthermore, there is this intriguing connection between Quaithe and Marwyn - Quaithe is from Asshai, Marwyn studied in Asshai, both apparently use glass candles and Marwyn is the only person that Quaithe doesn't warn Dany about. None of this, of course, hinges on Quaithe being Rhaella, but I hope that we can all agree that there is something going on with those two.

[sweetsunray]

Personally I think Quaithe = Quaithe. The who is Quaithe question does not come down to her identity hidden behind the mask related to dead women of Westeros imo, but which faction group she belongs to who wish to gain Dany on their side. We know of these factions: red priest Moqorro, maester Marwyn, Undying (failed attempt, now Euron who has some of their warlocks), possibly FM with Jaquen at Oldtown with its glass clandle, Quaithe represents just another one of those  And I think Quaithe might be a (high) priestess of the mysterious Church of Starry Wisdom, which the Bloodstone Emperor worshipped. When Dany has a vision of Quaithe once more in the Dothraki Sea, she sees her mask as being made from stars, and the stars whispering to her. Qarth is a port town, and the Church of Starry Wisdom has a house of theirs in several port cities (such as Braavos... Arya as Beth hears them sing)... all those who met her and invited her to Qarth had a personal interest in her, and I do not think Quaithe is different from Xaro and Pryat, just because she warns Dany instead of making promises. It is also heavily implied that Dany has a vision of the line of the rulers of the Empire of Dawn in the HotU. And it was the Bloodstone Emperor who usurped his sister the Amethyst Empress, and seems heavily related to causing the Long Night. LmL makes a good case about the Bloodstone Emperor probably being Azor Ahai, or the two legends being two sides of the same coin - a dichotomy of bad and good. And there is plenty of that dichotomy that surrounds Dany's arc and story too. Savior or Destroyer? There's just no way the Church of Starry Wisdom will not attempt to try and reach out for her imo. And since we already know who the other characters trying to reach Dany are affiliated with, that only leaves Quaithe as a representative of that faction.   

[Hangover of the Morning]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

Personally I think Quaithe = Quaithe. The who is Quaithe question does not come down to her identity hidden behind the mask related to dead women of Westeros imo, but which faction group she belongs to who wish to gain Dany on their side. 

Precisely. "Rhaella is Quaithe" opens so many questions while providing next to none answers as is typical for nonessential crackpots. Additionally for it to fit, we have to disregard everything we know about mother's nature and come up with far-fetched ludicrous theories (completely unsupported by text) as to why would a human being act in such an illogical way. Would she even logistically be able to escape from Dragonstone after Darry left with the kids? I also fail to see what it would add to the story aside for a potential heartwarming reunion between Danny and her late mother. 

[SFDanny]

2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Personally I think Quaithe = Quaithe.

My guess as well.

Love Radio Westeros, but I have a very hard time seeing Rhaella abandoning her children to only Ser Willem's protection. One has to imagine her looking at a situation of just having given birth to Daenerys and seeing the last bulwark of Targaryen power destroyed in the storm, and then deciding "oops, time for me to leave!" Not exactly mother of the year kind of stuff.

Now, to be fair, Rhaella may hate her children. Given the hell Aerys put her through, she may not have any maternal feeling towards them at all. While, if that's true, it gives her an interesting twist of her character, it isn't a particularly sympathetic twist. It's hard to see the hypothetical action of her running away, as anything other than the most selfish terms. "Take my children, while I hide in secrecy and supposed death." After all the situation on Dragonstone after Dany's birth is rather dire, and if Ser Willem isn't successful in smuggling the children out, the chances of their survival is close to nil.

Does all that bring her back in regret and with a mask to hide her tears? I don't know, but Martin has to write a hell of a backstory to explain this one, if this theory is true.

While I'm quite hesitant to endorse this theory for all the above reasons, let me just add one reason it holds that makes me want to jump on the bandwagon. The eggs. I have never believed Illyrio just gave the dragon eggs to Dany in some excessive gesture of extravagant wealth. He sure didn't give them thinking they would hatch. Which gives me pause to wonder who is really behind the wedding gift? Rhaella, alive and regretful, working through an intermediary (the brother of the Archon of Tyrosh?) would explain it. So would other characters like Shiera Seastar, but it is, to me, a huge plot hole left as yet unexplained.

[purple-eyes]

Rhaella died in childbirth on DS. 

Threre are many people around. 

I think this can not be faked. 

[Ygrain]

With all due respect, guys, have you actually bothered to listen to the theory in its entirety? It's not like I am wedded to it but your complaints are adressed in the podcast.

[SFDanny]

3 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

With all due respect, guys, have you actually bothered to listen to the theory in its entirety? It's not like I am wedded to it but your complaints are adressed in the podcast.

Yes, I have. Don't know if your post is directed towards me, but just to answer on my part, yes, I have listened to the podcast more than once, in its entirety.

[sweetsunray]

32 minutes ago, Hangover of the Morning said:

Precisely. "Rhaella is Quaithe" opens so many questions while providing next to none answers as is typical for nonessential crackpots....[snip]... I also fail to see what it would add to the story aside for a potential heartwarming reunion between Danny and her late mother. 

 

3 minutes ago, SFDanny said:

My guess as well.

Love Radio Westeros, but I have a very hard time seeing Rhaella abandoning her children to only Ser Willem's protection. One has to imagine her looking at a situation of just having given birth to Daenerys and seeing the last bulwark of Targaryen power destroyed in the storm, and then deciding "oops, time for me to leave!" Not exactly mother of the year kind of stuff.

Now, to be fair, Rhaella may hate her children. Given the hell Aerys put her through, she may not have any maternal feeling towards them at all. While, if that's true, it gives her an interesting twist of her character, it isn't a particularly sympathetic twist. It's hard to see the hypothetical action of her running away, as anything other than the most selfish terms. "Take my children, while I hide in secrecy and supposed death." After all the situation on Dragonstone after Dany's birth is rather dire, and if Ser Willem isn't successful in smuggling the children out, the chances of their survival is close to nil.

Does all that bring her back in regret and with a mask to hide her tears? I don't know, but Martin has to write a hell of a backstory to explain this one, if this theory is true.

Basically agree with the both of you.

I agree that mothers can choose to abandon or give up their children just as fathers can, either out of complete disinterest, or as a sacrifice believing their child is safer or better off without them.

In the first case, you'd have a hell of a time to reconcile the mother who is disinterested in her children with the proposal of Quaithe doing what she can to protect her "daughter" out of regret and remorse. Post-natal depression doesn't last fourteen year. Regret would have come sooner, and if she's so powerful that she can communicate with Dany from a distance, then surely she could have found Dany (and Viserys) wherever they were hiding. The regret argument only works if Quaithe was incapable of finding and communicating with Dany by magical means. But the last is exactly what Quaithe can do. And if it wasn't post-natal depression, then you end up with a woman who simply does not care about her children. And if she can't care for her children, then she wouldn't care about Dany now, but only acting now for mercenary or opportunistic reasons. And then Quaithe might just as well be Quaithe, while Quaithe = Rhaella adds nothing to it.

And the second argument that Rhaella did it to keep them safe or give them a better life just seems absurd. They had no safe or better life. One might argue, that's why she set off for Asshai, to be trained as a shadowbinder, and she only lately was powerful enough to finally keep her daughter safe. But for Quaithe to be a representative of Qarth to inspect Dany and her dragons in the red waste and ok her being invited to the city, she already must have had some renown for a very good while. And then we get back to the whole mess of - why does she not contact Dany any sooner?

What can we conclude safely regarding Quaithe:

• that she has a high level position in Qarth, enough to be a representative and make decisions for the city and already renowned, so it isn't a position she acquired a month prior to the visit of the red waste
• that she is so powerful that she can communicate with Dany from a distance, in a hologram type of way, and that only Dany can see her
• that she contacts and talks to Dany for the first time after Viserys is dead and after she has dragons
• that she was trained in Asshai
• that the Azor Ahai prophecy comes from Asshai

Hence, Quaithe is only interested in Dany since she became the mother of dragons and might be Azor Ahai reborn. And her being Rhaella adds nothing to it imho. I love Radio Westeros, but this I think is off the mark. 

[Hangover of the Morning]

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

With all due respect, guys, have you actually bothered to listen to the theory in its entirety? It's not like I am wedded to it but your complaints are adressed in the podcast.

Yes, I did and the presentation is convincing and sounds reasonable but ultimately it doesn't matter how pretty you build your palace and how much you embellish it with ornaments, it'll fall to the ground if you don't support it with foundation and put it on moving sand. 

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

On January 27, 2016 at 7:05 AM, Drogonthedread said:

I was listening to Radio westeros today on their latest episode about prophecies ..

 

Thanks for creating a discussion of this! Glad you enjoyed it.

As we said in the episode, we fully expect many people will find this simply too far fetched. But we think we made a compelling case for the possibility.

I don't want to get into a back and forth on the idea, since we appreciate just having people discuss it. But one objection that seems to have come up a few times (and forgive me, I confess I did not read every post) is that a mother wouldn't leave her children. Since this is actually something we addressed, I think it bears repeating and clarification. Our speculation was that Rhaella was deep into prophecies with her son Rhaegar, and that upon his death she decided that TPtWP must be one of her two remaining children. She would have entrusted the care of her children to Ser Willem Darry, whom we speculate brought them to Braavos to be brought up under the protection of the Sealord, whilst she journeyed to Asshai to research the prophesy (perhaps under the auspices of Marwyn) We think it's hardly abandonment if she had taken measures to see to her children's protection. In such a scenario there's no way she could have foreseen the death of Darry and likely the Sealord as well, nor the plight her children then found themselves in. Considering what we actually know of Viserys' and Dany's childhood they may have been one step ahead of their mother as well as those "hired knives" Dany recalls evading.

Anyways, to quote what we said in our conclusion- any discussion on Quaithe’s identity requires lots of leaps of faith and tinfoil. Overall, no matter who Quaithe really is, we think she's well placed to make a large impact on the story, especially relative to the size of her role. She affects Dany, and enters her decision making process, much the same as the prophesies of the Undying have. Quaithe shows no signs of ambition and her motives seem as obscure as her riddles, so it will be really interesting to see if and how she guides Dany in TWoW.

 

[sweetsunray]

2 hours ago, Lady Gwynhyfvar said:

Thanks for creating a discussion of this! Glad you enjoyed it.

As we said in the episode, we fully expect many people will find this simply too far fetched. But we think we made a compelling case for the possibility.

I don't want to get into a back and forth on the idea, since we appreciate just having people discuss it. But one objection that seems to have come up a few times (and forgive me, I confess I did not read every post) is that a mother wouldn't leave her children. Since this is actually something we addressed, I think it bears repeating and clarification. Our speculation was that Rhaella was deep into prophecies with her son Rhaegar, and that upon his death she decided that TPtWP must be one of her two remaining children. She would have entrusted the care of her children to Ser Willem Darry, whom we speculate brought them to Braavos to be brought up under the protection of the Sealord, whilst she journeyed to Asshai to research the prophesy (perhaps under the auspices of Marwyn) We think it's hardly abandonment if she had taken measures to see to her children's protection. In such a scenario there's no way she could have foreseen the death of Darry and likely the Sealord as well, nor the plight her children then found themselves in. Considering what we actually know of Viserys' and Dany's childhood they may have been one step ahead of their mother as well as those "hired knives" Dany recalls evading.

Anyways, to quote what we said in our conclusion- any discussion on Quaithe’s identity requires lots of leaps of faith and tinfoil. Overall, no matter who Quaithe really is, we think she's well placed to make a large impact on the story, especially relative to the size of her role. She affects Dany, and enters her decision making process, much the same as the prophesies of the Undying have. Quaithe shows no signs of ambition and her motives seem as obscure as her riddles, so it will be really interesting to see if and how she guides Dany in TWoW.

 

First of all, I want to thank you for yet again an outstanding podcast and indeed putting Rhaella forward as an option. The argument that Rhaella might have decided to study in Asshai, where she could not bring her children (or did not wish to risk it), to comprehend the prophecy much better, is a compelling one. I do not have a problem with that at all. What I find problematic is Quaithe as an obvious high ranked personality in whatever her order is and a high ranked emmisiary of Qarth and not contacting or meeting Dany (or Viserys) before the red waste. And it becomes even more problematic when we consider Quaithe having a glass candle to communicate with Marwyn and witness what is going on in the present, which she very unlikely came by only very recently. As the mother, surely she would have watched her children through  the candle. Well, you might argue, she watched them and sent someone for them, but they were always a step ahead of her. But if glass candles allow her to communicate with whomever she wishes who doesn't have a glass candle themselves, what would have kept her from doing that while say Dany was in Pentos with Illyrio, or in Vaes Dothrak, etc. Quaithe coming out to the red waste to see dragons, implies to me that Quaithe was not waching Dany and/or Viserys through glass candles, wasn't even aware of them, and only learned of the birth of dragons by Dany's Ko. And her being a representative of Qarth suggest she was a prominent figure in Qarth for a while already. So, to me it all points to evidence that Quaithe is not a personal relation of Dany at all.

Although if you were to go the alt-identity route it would make sense to consider a character related to the PtwP prophecy would be born of Rhaella-Aerys line. Crackpot warning: And if I have to think of a name involved with that prophecy, connected to Targaryens, as well as having an interest in magic or already practising it, and Barristan's presence and remembrance of the wood's witch, and GoHH's allusions to the tragedy of Summerhall... then I think Jenny of Oldstones might be a compromize. We are given the impression that she dies, but it is never actually stated she died there at all (only Duncan).

We don't even know the lyrics of the song about Jenny of Oldstones, or what happened to her, just that GoHH loves to listen to it and that it makes her cry. We know but one: High in the halls of the kings who are gone, Jenny would dance with her ghosts... That sounds like Jenny could in fact be alive, otherwise she'd be a ghost herself. And Jenny of Oldstones would fit the model of peripheric characters (such as GoHH, Marwyn and Howland Reed) really well. The survivors tend to be witnesses and influencers without being crucially main characters.

She is a character deeply involved in the tragedy of Summerhall and most likely impacted with feelings of guilt... she introduced GoHH to the Targaryens, which led to the tragedy of Summerhall where she lost her husband. She would speak preferably the common tongue, over Valyrian. And she would have remained interested in the prophecy to find out where they had made a mistake, enough perhaps to go to its source, all in order to undo the damage and disaster she might feel partly responsible for. She might even have communicated with Rhaegar as Quaithe at some point; she might have been the one who informed Rhaegar to seek out the GoHH, which led to him coming upon Lyanna and abducting her... or contacted Marwyn, or Marwyn was a witness to it. All of this would have made her incredible reluctant to interfere with any hidden and/or missing Targ until news does come that dragons have been born. And it would also make Marwyn, who most likely met her at Asshai, talk so bitter about prophecies (that and the fact that he might have been Rhaegar's maester if he was maester at Dragonstone). Of course, when she does learn of Dany and the birth of dragons, she would be emotionally affected by it at some point to watch this child, born after her involvement with Summerhall and possibly Rhaegar, succeed. That in the end, her part in all of it, had its purpose. And the mask's purpose would make perfect sense: she has burn marks on her face from the Tragedy of Summerhall. The mask would not just be a plot device to hide her identity to the reader and Dany, but to everyone who would otherwise be horrified of looking at her.

[Lord Varys]

Didn't get around to listen to that one yet, but I generally don't like the idea of women faking their death in childbirth. I'm also very skeptical about the idea that Ashara Dayne might still be alive since we have little to no reason to assume that this is the case.

Rhaella Targaryen was a very prominent figure, and presumably many people on Dragonstone would have visited her death, subsequent cremation, and presumed interment wherever the Targaryens put the ashes of their ancestors on Dragonstone (her remains could lie next to the Conqueror's, Visenya's, or Aenys I's, for all we know).

In general I'm on board with a theory who makes Quaithe a person with connection to House Targaryen, but I'm much more inclined to believe that she is Shiera Seastar if she is a historical character - we don't know what happened to her, we know she practiced sorcery, and she (and her mother, Serenei of Lys) was even reputed to be able to preserve their youthful appearance despite her actual age.

Queen Rhaella just seemed to be an average woman. No history of magic, no history of interest in magic, and no history of doing anything important. I hoped she wasn't nothing but a proper and dutiful sister-wife and queen, but apparently that's what she was.

If one wants to assume that Quaithe is a more recent Targaryen connection, then Queen Shaera might actually make more sense. We know very little about her, too, but we know that she actually survived both Summerhall and, presumably, Jaehaerys II. In any case, we have no confirmation that she is dead (which we do have in Rhaella's case).

I also see little reason to assume that Queen Rhaella would keep her identity a secret from Daenerys. She has no good reason to do so, after all.

As to the mask, Quaithe is supposed to be a Shadowlander. If that's the case then her wearing a mask is not strange at all. Shadowlanders and Asshai'i shadowbinders wear such masks. It could also help Quaithe to hide her features, of course, but it would not necessarily be anything she has to do.

And neither Dany nor Jorah would recognize Rhaella if she took her mask off. As far as we know Jorah never was in KL during the Targaryen days, and even if he was, Queen Rhaella was apparently kept in Maegor's Holdfast for most of Aerys' reign. She didn't participate in any major event during Aerys' later reign (she wasn't at the Lannisport tourney, nor at Harrenhal).

[The Prince of Magpies]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

If one wants to assume that Quaithe is a more recent Targaryen connection, then Queen Shaera might actually make more sense. We know very little about her, too, but we know that she actually survived both Summerhall and, presumably, Jaehaerys II. In any case, we have no confirmation that she is dead (which we do have in Rhaella's case).

How do we know this? I'm not doubting you - I'm just curious, because it must mean I missed something pretty glaring.

[purple-eyes]

That lyric made me feel jenny indeed died. Only a dead person can dance with ghost I think. 

If she still lived, that witch would be with her or at least not that sad. 

I think jenny as well as black Beth all died in summerhall. 

Rhaella was saved by dunk. All the others of royal family died. Dunk sacrificed himself to rescue rhaegar and rhaella. 

Though it is miracle that how aerys survived. Was he there or was he in KL with his daddy? (So that they all survived) 

[The Prince of Magpies]

37 minutes ago, The Prince of Magpies said:

How do we know this? I'm not doubting you - I'm just curious, because it must mean I missed something pretty glaring.

Sorry, I was frazzled from work and momentarily thought Summerhall was meant to have killed Jaehaerys II and Shaera. My brain has since re-aligned with reality (or, in this case, the reality of GRRM's reality). I understand the logic too of Shaera outliving her husband since he died so young (and we've never been given any indication that she shared his sickly constitution).

[sweetsunray]

57 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

That lyric made me feel jenny indeed died. Only a dead person can dance with ghost I think. 

If she still lived, that witch would be with her or at least not that sad. 

I think jenny as well as black Beth all died in summerhall. 

Rhaella was saved by dunk. All the others of royal family died. Dunk sacrificed himself to rescue rhaegar and rhaella. 

Though it is miracle that how aerys survived. Was he there or was he in KL with his daddy? (So that they all survived) 

As I said... Jenny of Oldstones is crackpot, and we are given the impression she is dead, but no confirmation for it. Would the GoHH travel to Asshai you think? I doubt it very much.

As for the other royals: Jaehaerys became king after the Tragedy of Summerhall in which Aegon V died, and was king for 3 years. Shaera outlived her father too. She was present in KL when the armies marched to Stepstones. It's not confirmed whether either 2 were at Summerhall, but their pregnant daughter Rhaella was. So, no it does not seem that the Tragedy killed all of the royal famil. Only Duncan Targ, Egg and Dunk are confirmed to have died there. The witch was said to have died there, but obviously GoHH still lives. 

And I find it very suspicious that the song is mentioned many times and sung, and yet we know only one line out of it, and that Arya simply calls it sad, without telling us anything about Jenny.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, The Prince of Magpies said:

How do we know this? I'm not doubting you - I'm just curious, because it must mean I missed something pretty glaring.

We know Shaera was still around during the reign of Jaehaerys II, confirming that she didn't die at Summerhall. While it is technically possible that she died before Jaehaerys II that is not very likely since no such death is mentioned. We just don't know what happened to her and therefore it is difficult to say whether she is dead or not. She certainly could be merely be presumed to be dead (while her daughter Rhaella pretty much seems to be confirmed to be dead).

We know that Rhaella was at Summerhall and survived, and we also have a pretty good reason to believe that all members of the royal family were there, too. Aegon V intended to celebrate the birth of his first great-grandchild. A joyous occasion for the entire royal family, especially the happy grandparents (Prince Jaehaerys and Princess Shaera). Now, we already know that Prince Duncan and Jenny were at Summerhall, and we know in addition that Aegon V called 'those closest to him' to Summerhall as well - Jaehaerys was his heir at this point, he would have been close to him by default.

That means that we can reasonably assume that Jaehaerys II, Shaera, Aerys, and Rhaella all were at Summerhall and lived. The Summerhall portrait from TWoIaF - which seems to have been depicted according to George's instructions (the artist would never have included Rhaella giving birth if he hadn't had good instructions) - includes another silver-gold haired guy in the background of the portrait who, in my opinion, most likely is supposed to be Aerys leaning on either Tywin or Steffon (the latter most likely also was at Summerhall, possibly alongside his mother, Princess Rhaelle - if she was still alive at that point).

But back to the Quaithe thing:

I think you can make a case that it would make some sense to give her some connection to Daenerys and Westeros, but I don't see a mother-daughter relationship there, however well obscured. And while there is some possibility that Rhaella knew about the prophecy stuff, I have some difficulty imagining her study or approve of it. The prophecy of the promised prince essentially ruined her life. Yes, she was dutiful, but whether she was dutiful to some higher ideal/goal or just following the commands of her royal father and brother is as of yet unclear.

We don't even know yet which siblings continued to push for another child, Rhaella or Aerys. I'd put more money on Aerys because he was the one who needed (additional) heirs. We have no clue about Rhaella's personality but one assumes that she was at a very dark place for most of her adult life, not just because of the way Aerys eventually treated her but because of her many miscarriages, stillbirths, and dead children. If she ever believed in a prophecy the realities of her life should have ended that pretty soon.

In light of all that Shiera - who as of yet is nearly completely absent as a historical character and has as such enormous potential to play a big role in either the main series or the Dunk & Egg stories - makes much more sense. She is already out of the race for the true identity of Melisandre (who still could be Shiera's daughter by either Bloodraven or Bittersteel, though, never knowing her father) but Quaithe is a different case, and the idea that we potentially have father, mother, and daughter (unknowingly) fighting on different sides/supporting different claimants has a lot of potential.

8 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

What can we conclude safely regarding Quaithe:

• that she has a high level position in Qarth, enough to be a representative and make decisions for the city and already renowned, so it isn't a position she acquired a month prior to the visit of the red waste
• that she is so powerful that she can communicate with Dany from a distance, in a hologram type of way, and that only Dany can see her
• that she contacts and talks to Dany for the first time after Viserys is dead and after she has dragons
• that she was trained in Asshai
• that the Azor Ahai prophecy comes from Asshai

Hence, Quaithe is only interested in Dany since she became the mother of dragons and might be Azor Ahai reborn. And her being Rhaella adds nothing to it imho. I love Radio Westeros, but this I think is off the mark. 

I doubt that we can even say that Quaithe has any important or official position/office in Qarth whatsoever. There is no hint that three seekers were official envoys by the city of Qarth and its leaders. They were just those Qartheen curious enough to follow Jhogo back to Vaes Tolorro. There is no reason to believe that the Qartheen had the power (or the interest) to bar Quaithe the right to accompany Jhogo. The fact that no representative of the Pureborn and no representative of the other trading guilds went to Vaes Tolorro is an additional hint that this wasn't an official mission in any capacity. Not to mention that Pyat Pree - at that point certainly no one who could reasonably speak for the city of Qarth - was among them, too.

[sweetsunray]

4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I doubt that we can even say that Quaithe has any important or official position/office in Qarth whatsoever. There is no hint that three seekers were official envoys by the city of Qarth and its leaders. They were just those Qartheen curious enough to follow Jhogo back to Vaes Tolorro. There is no reason to believe that the Qartheen had the power (or the interest) to bar Quaithe the right to accompany Jhogo. The fact that no representative of the Pureborn and no representative of the other trading guilds went to Vaes Tolorro is an additional hint that this wasn't an official mission in any capacity. Not to mention that Pyat Pree - at that point certainly no one who could reasonably speak for the city of Qarth - was among them, too.

You are correct they can't be called official envoys, but nor can you say they are unknowns or unimportant people. Xaro is after all sent to Mereen as an envoy. The destruction of the HotU is one of the reasons that she is banned from Qarth. I would rather say they are unofficial envoys to verify this tale about dragons.

[Lord Varys]

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

You are correct they can't be called official envoys, but nor can you say they are unknowns or unimportant people. Xaro is after all sent to Mereen as an envoy. The destruction of the HotU is one of the reasons that she is banned from Qarth. I would rather say they are unofficial envoys to verify this tale about dragons.

Xaro is specifically sent to Meereen as the envoy of the Pureborn because he volunteers, convinced that he can talk some sense to Daenerys. He says as much himself in ADwD. Whether he already had an official capacity in ACoK is unclear. I could easily see the Pureborn and the other Qartheen dismissing this dragon tale completely, and only Xaro, Pyat Pree, and Quaithe being curious enough to investigate it.

Quaithe especially could just be a Asshai'i/Shadowlander who happens to be in Qarth when Jhogo arrives (or posing as such a person), being curious about this story for private reasons.

Her overall behavior does not suggest at all that she is deeply connected with Xaro or Pyat Pree, nor any of the other Qartheen. She appears to be a neutral outsider, or at least tries to appear as such to Daenerys (who realizes this and inquires what the hell Quaithe wants from her if she doesn't want anything openly).